Panasonic GH6

[hyalinejim]

Ha ha, there's a comment on the cinematographer's Insta (Olan Collardy)

"It's the wizard, not the wand"

I'm going to try the remember that one!

[webrunner5]

2 hours ago, hyalinejim said:

IIt's interesting to see forest scenes here. I often think Panasonic fails spectacularly with the greens and greys of woodland scenes, making everything look quite drab both in stills and video. It's not as pronounced in this vid but I still see a hint of it, I think. 

 

You might be right about the colors more than the sharpness. Either way not a fan of it. It is just a dull blob. Really distracting. No clue why their cameras are so popular.

[kye]

13 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

 

Some splendid colour. They went a bit overboard with grading, especially the red cloth of the suit is oversaturated as oversaturated can be and some bluish tint is showing the joy of grading a bit too much. But as a visual sketch and indication of what the GH6 is capable of, this is really something.

I cannot comment on the voice over style as I am not a fan of it. But a lot of talent and visual taste in this piece and great showcase of what to expect from this powerhouse of a camera. I hope Panasonic gets the streaking sorted out and follows up on Prores for all filming modes this SUMMER, please!

Anyway, one of the best showcases of any prosumer camera and its image quality I have seen.

 

 

The red being pushed up was a trend, IIRC it was made popular by this video:

Outside of camera forums, no-one gives a shit about getting natural looking colour - they want colour that will do something for them - to support the aesthetic and vision of the film - to bring the film success and popularity so it reaches a good audience and makes the effort of making it worthwhile.

We discuss cameras colour on these forums in some sort of strange parallel universe where making a camera neutral and accurate and nice is this kind of goal in itself, but it's really not.

If you guys have a challenge with that level of pushing/pulling colours then you'll have a heart attack when you start watching movies and other music videos.....

plus, you know, check out the terribly inaccurate colour on these little-known films that failed due to their poor colour....

What awfully inaccurate colours - I guess the cameras were rubbish!  Looks like those were shot on Alexas - man must those cameras be overrated!

 

[hyalinejim]

1 hour ago, kye said:

making a camera neutral and accurate

I don't know if anyone here actually wants that. Accurate colour looks all right in reality but in a digital image it looks pretty poor to me. The only time I want accurate colour is in a reproduction scenario; products, artwork etc. The rest of the time I want a digital image to be transformative - to improve upon reality.

[kye]

2 hours ago, hyalinejim said:

I don't know if anyone here actually wants that. Accurate colour looks all right in reality but in a digital image it looks pretty poor to me. The only time I want accurate colour is in a reproduction scenario; products, artwork etc. The rest of the time I want a digital image to be transformative - to improve upon reality.

@PannySVHS's comment was "They went a bit overboard with grading, especially the red cloth of the suit is oversaturated" and @webrunner5 said while talking about the background colours "It is just a dull blob."

Sure, no-one said they wanted accurate, but some kind of ideal middle ground is implied.  You can't say that something is "too <something>" unless you're comparing it to something, and they didn't specify what that something was, just some sort of nice/desirable one-size-fits-all kind of idea.

If there's no "right" way to do it, then there can't be any wrong way to do it, and therefore no criticisms.  But that's not what was posted.....

[PPNS]

i thought it looked very nice. i dont necessarily mind a more extreme color grade, and it fit the more formally daring visual style of the piece.

[webrunner5]

4 hours ago, kye said:

@PannySVHS's comment was "They went a bit overboard with grading, especially the red cloth of the suit is oversaturated" and @webrunner5 said while talking about the background colours "It is just a dull blob."

Sure, no-one said they wanted accurate, but some kind of ideal middle ground is implied.  You can't say that something is "too <something>" unless you're comparing it to something, and they didn't specify what that something was, just some sort of nice/desirable one-size-fits-all kind of idea.

If there's no "right" way to do it, then there can't be any wrong way to do it, and therefore no criticisms.  But that's not what was posted.....

Oversaturated and no detail is two different things. I know you have one, like it I guess and are defending it, I get it, but if it was so great everyone on here would have one, or still have it, and the world would be perfect. Hey guess what the world isn't perfect and neither is the GH5. It has it's good points and bad points, color, AF and detail is it's bad points to me. I didn't like mine, I sold it, simple as that. 

Just because you like the videos above doesn't mean I have to. If you think that is the first trend like that there has been you must be 12 years old. Every new generation does stuff like that until they get older and figure out 12 people like it and they go broke doing it or show it to their dad and he disowns you and cuts you out of the will..

[hyalinejim]

This BTS is interesting

 

 

[TomTheDP]

14 hours ago, hyalinejim said:

I don't know if anyone here actually wants that. Accurate colour looks all right in reality but in a digital image it looks pretty poor to me. The only time I want accurate colour is in a reproduction scenario; products, artwork etc. The rest of the time I want a digital image to be transformative - to improve upon reality.

It's all about control I think. If you know what you are capturing it makes it easy to make decisions on set. If you are doing set design you don't want the camera making random decisions for you on what looks best.

What I have found with Arri is they always look very true to life while still somehow being pleasing. I think it's just whatever magic ARRI does with skintones without effecting the rest of the image so much.

[PannySVHS]

  

I wrote, the GH6 piece shows some of the very best colour I have seen in any DSLM promo video, despite that red of the cloth was oversaturated imo.:)

My main point and emphasize is the beauty of colour coming from the camera and showing in this tasteful piece. It does not look unreal neither to me, as my perception of colour is very much connected to an emotional response, which does give me a feeling of something real. May that be real-ly dreamy or whatever. It is not realistic but of real suggestive power and giving an instant and real response relating to reality. So my two cents regarding perception, realism, realness. Not a third cent more though from my side regarding these complexes.:)

Imo there is a thickness and lushness achieved thanks to the cameras capabilities just as well as from the film artists and teams side. I have not seen any spectacular unlit examples with painterly colour interpretation of reality though. Still looking forward to it. For BMD cams fi there are plenty awesome video examples of great colour in unlit settings.

cheers and good night. 🙂

[webrunner5]

18 hours ago, kye said:

@PannySVHS's comment was "They went a bit overboard with grading, especially the red cloth of the suit is oversaturated" and @webrunner5 said while talking about the background colours "It is just a dull blob."

Sure, no-one said they wanted accurate, but some kind of ideal middle ground is implied.  You can't say that something is "too <something>" unless you're comparing it to something, and they didn't specify what that something was, just some sort of nice/desirable one-size-fits-all kind of idea.

If there's no "right" way to do it, then there can't be any wrong way to do it, and therefore no criticisms.  But that's not what was posted.....

I would like to apologize to kye and anyone else that owns a GH5 it is not my place to criticize a camera or camera system that they have researched, spent their hard earned money to purchase, and found to have meet their expatiations and proud to own and to suggest to others. 

I have no right to do this, not to make someone look bad, or their product that has served them well. Again, I am sorry. It was just plain not right for me to do that.

[kye]

13 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Oversaturated and no detail is two different things. I know you have one, like it I guess and are defending it, I get it, but if it was so great everyone on here would have one, or still have it, and the world would be perfect. Hey guess what the world isn't perfect and neither is the GH5. It has it's good points and bad points, color, AF and detail is it's bad points to me. I didn't like mine, I sold it, simple as that. 

Just because you like the videos above doesn't mean I have to. If you think that is the first trend like that there has been you must be 12 years old. Every new generation does stuff like that until they get older and figure out 12 people like it and they go broke doing it or show it to their dad and he disowns you and cuts you out of the will..

[Edit: Thanks for your apology post - I wasn't offended and no harm done 🙂 ]

I'm not sure why you and others keep running to the extremes.  I never said the GH5 was great and neither did I say it was terrible.  I'm actually very interested in a new camera once I'm back and travelling again, as the GH5 colour and low-light and DR are definitely showing signs of age and are actively limiting factors in me getting the most from the camera.

In terms of trends or whatever, nowhere did I claim that was the first trend ever, so that's just a bizarre instance of you putting words in my mouth.

As for 12 people liking it, um....  What a completely non-sensical comment considering that a few clicks show that video has 14.5 million views on YT, the song reached the top 100 charts around the world and the artist appeared on shows like Jimmy Fallon.

[kye]

3 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

  

I wrote, the GH6 piece shows some of the very best colour I have seen in any DSLM promo video, despite that red of the cloth was oversaturated imo.:)

My main point and emphasize is the beauty of colour coming from the camera and showing in this tasteful piece. It does not look unreal neither to me, as my perception of colour is very much connected to an emotional response, which does give me a feeling of something real. May that be real-ly dreamy or whatever. It is not realistic but of real suggestive power and giving an instant and real response relating to reality. So my two cents regarding perception, realism, realness. Not a third cent more though from my side regarding these complexes.:)

Imo there is a thickness and lushness achieved thanks to the cameras capabilities just as well as from the film artists and teams side. I have not seen any spectacular unlit examples with painterly colour interpretation of reality though. Still looking forward to it. For BMD cams fi there are plenty awesome video examples of great colour in unlit settings.

cheers and good night. 🙂

I think the colour on that video was really good, and I actually think that the oversaturated grading shows how impressive the image from the camera must be in order to be able to be graded like that.  Anyone who has tried to push a huge amount of saturation into some footage will know that it's a good way to reveal the weaknesses in the footage so the fact that the image held up to that is really a vote of confidence.

I find it strange and a bit sad that mostly people can't separate the capabilities of a camera from the grading that is done to it.  The Slashcam comparisons on YT show that most cameras look dull and understated when simply exposed properly and with the default manufacturers LUT on them, meaning that all the great looking videos we see are the effects of lighting and production design on set and colourist in post, of course all with the limitation of the capabilities of the camera.  

I think if you went through every camera thread on these forums you'd find one (or many) examples of "I don't like that grade on that video - the camera must be crap".  It's like burning a steak and then blaming it on the cow.

[mercer]

Wouldn't it be great if the camera market was like Build A Bear and I could just order the Alexa Mini LF in a GH6 body with IBIS and internal NDs... while also having an interchangeable monochrome sensor that I could easily pop in and out when desired.

Of course, it would have the Roger Deakins mode that would make my footage look better. And obviously the Amy Adams mode to make my actors prettier. 

[PannySVHS]

On 5/28/2022 at 8:31 AM, kye said:

What awfully inaccurate colours - I guess the cameras were rubbish!  Looks like those were shot on Alexas - man must those cameras be overrated!

Hallo Kye, why do you cite me in connection to your post above? I find it misleading in connection to what I actually wrote about the beautiful GH6 piece that I posted for all of us to enjoy or not to. I wish for a bit more consideration from all of us to each other, to what our posts actually emphasize and mean. So let me repost and enjoy this video.:) This is what I wrote:

 

"Some splendid colour. They went a bit overboard with grading, especially the red cloth of the suit is oversaturated as oversaturated can be and some bluish tint is showing the joy of grading a bit too much. But as a visual sketch and indication of what the GH6 is capable of, this is really something.

I cannot comment on the voice over style as I am not a fan of it. But a lot of talent and visual taste in this piece and great showcase of what to expect from this powerhouse of a camera. I hope Panasonic gets the streaking sorted out and follows up on Prores for all filming modes this SUMMER, please!

Anyway, one of the best showcases of any prosumer camera and its image quality I have seen."

 

 

 

[hyalinejim]

On 5/19/2022 at 3:18 PM, Mmmbeats said:

I did follow up on shooting some quick test shots at 1080p

@Mmmbeats or anyone else who has a GH6. Would it be possible to do one or the other of these quick tests as there is no hard evidence anywhere that I can find about GH6 1080 quality.

1. Shoot the same scene on a tripod comparing GH6 4k with GH6 1080 and upload an extracted still from each

OR

2. Shoot the same scene on a tripod comparing GH6 1080 with GH5 1080 and upload an extracted still from each

I am very close to buying a GH6 but if the 1080 is not good then I don't want it. I'd love to see the evidence with my own eyes before I make the purchase. 

I'll be eternally grateful if someone could take 15 minutes out of their day to do this.

[kye]

16 minutes ago, hyalinejim said:

@Mmmbeats or anyone else who has a GH6. Would it be possible to do one or the other of these quick tests as there is no hard evidence anywhere that I can find about GH6 1080 quality.

1. Shoot the same scene on a tripod comparing GH6 4k with GH6 1080 and upload an extracted still from each

OR

2. Shoot the same scene on a tripod comparing GH6 1080 with GH5 1080 and upload an extracted still from each

I am very close to buying a GH6 but if the 1080 is not good then I don't want it. I'd love to see the evidence with my own eyes before I make the purchase. 

I'll be eternally grateful if someone could take 15 minutes out of their day to do this.

While I'm not about to buy, I'm also very interested in the quality of the 1080p on GH6.

Double the thanks to anyone who shares this 🙂 

[hyalinejim]

I hadn't seen Richard Wong's lemgthy review which is very in depth. It looks like 1080 is good on the GH6.

One other interesting finding is that rolling shutter is massively reduced in 4k 120, which might be useful for certain situations, although that frame rate comes with its own limitations, I believe.

And face tracking autofocus seems very usable.

 

[kye]

On 6/3/2022 at 3:01 PM, hyalinejim said:

I hadn't seen Richard Wong's lemgthy review which is very in depth. It looks like 1080 is good on the GH6.

One other interesting finding is that rolling shutter is massively reduced in 4k 120, which might be useful for certain situations, although that frame rate comes with its own limitations, I believe.

And face tracking autofocus seems very usable.

 

Thanks for posting, that's a pretty comprehensive review!

Yes, the 1080 looks really good.  Interesting that it's essentially the same quality up to 120p and then above it looks lower-quality - I guess maybe the downscaling algorithm couldn't keep up and they had to go for a faster one with lower quality perhaps.

Also interesting is that it shoots 48p, which is hugely interesting to me.  Over the pandemic I've reflected on how I shoot, and I'd actually thought that I might switch to 48p so that I can slow things down in post if I happened to catch something really cool, but I didn't want to have any mis-matches when using most of the footage at 24p.  Ideally I'd shoot in 1080p48 in some flavour of Prores that's good enough quality but not too high bitrate, maybe 422 might be a sweet spot.

[kye]

Interesting comparison of the IBIS on GH6 vs S5, linked below at the timecode:

and if you watch a little longer, it just murders the Sony A1.

Perhaps the lesson from that is that the GH6 claims 7 stops, the S5 claims 5 stops and the A1 claims 5.5 stops, but the A1 is clearly worse than the S5, showing that the specification is measuring the wrong thing and doesn't actually indicate the relative level of performance in the real world.  

Instead the limits of performance is how far the sensor shift mechanism can actually shift the sensor (which doesn't seem to be provided or isn't discussed), rather than how good the stabilisation is when the shaking is within the limits of the shifting mechanism (which is the "stops" rating).

This is why "but FF claims the same number of stops on their IBIS - therefore they're just as good" isn't an accurate statement.