Panasonic GH6

[MrSMW]

2 hours ago, kye said:

Everyone knows that one of the best uses for high resolution cameras is cropping into the image, which was always deemed as cropping in post, but why not be cropping in-camera?

The Sigma FP-L has a pinch to crop option I believe or some kind of button crop at various user chooser crops.

[newfoundmass]

5 hours ago, kye said:

In fact, maybe a variable digital zoom might be possible?  Everyone knows that one of the best uses for high resolution cameras is cropping into the image, which was always deemed as cropping in post, but why not be cropping in-camera?  Sony has ClearImage Zoom, which is quite impressive, a competitor would be great

The JVC LS300 did it first and is/was one of my favorite things about it. You can put a prime lens on it and use the zoom rocker to turn it into a zoom lens. 

[hyalinejim]

This is the colour difference between GH5 VLog and GH6 VLog:

GH5


GH6

In general most of the colour palette is warmer and skintones, as everyone already knows, are no longer to magenta. Blues are also more accurate, being slightly darker and more purple than they are on the GH5. Greens are more yellow.

[kye]

7 hours ago, hyalinejim said:

It's actually not that cumbersome at all once it's set up and if you either don't need the frame marker or are happy to leave that on all the time.

Press Q, turn the wheel, set.

So three clicks. It takes at least that many to switch GH5 in and out of 2x using a function button, and more if you have to cycle past 4x.

Obviously I haven't tried it, but I would have thought that pushing the same button multiple times was easier than having to use multiple controls.  I just checked on my GH5 and the sequence is:

• find custom function button with finger
• 3 clicks to engage the 2x (or 2 clicks to go back to 1x)
• hit shutter button (either half-press to quit zoom menu or full-press to quit menu and start recording)

I have my digital zoom button mapped to the FN2 custom button, which is the upper-most button on the RHS of the screen which allows me to hit it with the base of my thumb while still holding the weight of the camera with that hand and without removing my index finger from the shutter button, so that doesn't require any navigation during the whole operation.  In uncertain moments I can also move my thumb there pre-emptively as there isn't anywhere else that it would need to be, so it's essentially a near-zero-movement operation, which I don't really think is possible with many / any of the other controls on the camera, depending on how you're holding it.

That process also doesn't require any visual attention and doesn't interfere with your left hand so I could potentially engage the 2x zoom while also composing and manually focusing the shot at the same time.

Of course, that speed difference probably doesn't matter to everyone as much as it does for me, who quite often gets two or three usable frames from a moment because I was too slow.  It's probably also not so much of a difference if you're operating other aspects of the camera manually too, meaning you'd have to move your hands between buttons regardless of this function.

[kye]

2 hours ago, hyalinejim said:

This is the colour difference between GH5 VLog and GH6 VLog:

GH5


GH6

In general most of the colour palette is warmer and skintones, as everyone already knows, are no longer to magenta. Blues are also more accurate, being slightly darker and more purple than they are on the GH5. Greens are more yellow.

Isn't the Vlog on the GH5 V-LogL or some other non-proper form of V-Log?  I was never really that straight on that profile.  I do remember people were saying the GH6 had proper V-Log so it was compatible with the LUTs from the proper Panasonic Cinema Cameras?

[kye]

2 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

The JVC LS300 did it first and is/was one of my favorite things about it. You can put a prime lens on it and use the zoom rocker to turn it into a zoom lens. 

Yeah, that would be spectacular!

[hyalinejim]

14 minutes ago, kye said:

I would have thought that pushing the same button multiple times was easier than having to use multiple controls

Well, the Q button is by your thumb. Then you just need the shutter wheel, which is easy to find, followed by the shutter button. So it's all quite intuitive and relies on muscle memory.

12 minutes ago, kye said:

Isn't the Vlog on the GH5 V-LogL

VLog-L maxes out at 80IRE. Full VLog goes further. In that regard, GH6 without DR boost is the same as VLog-L. Once you turn DR boost on you get a bit more info in the highlights above 80 IRE. 

The perceived incompatibility of GH5 VLog-L with the Varicam luts has more to do with the colour, I think. The GH5 V-gamut colour is a bit off, most noticeably in skintones. The GH6 is supposed to be closer to the other cameras (S series, EVA1 and presumably Varicam) in that regard.

I would say that when applying the Varicam luts, the GH6 colours look all right.

[FoxAdriano]

Hey friends, I recently bought the GH6 with Leica 12-60mm. Do you take away a curiosity? I make videos in 4K, 50p, 10bit, 4: 2: 2 only in V-Log and I thought not to buy a VND but an ND filter with only one lens, for example a Hoya PROND 3 stop. With the variable ND filter of 100-200 euros I fear the video image quality degrades too much. I like the good image quality. I only make quick documentaries, always outside on days with bright sun or lightly clouded skies. I shoot the daily life of the peoples. Does anyone use fixed ND or ..... do you absolutely recommend the VND? Thank you

[webrunner5]

Just about the worse fixed ND is better than the best VND. But naturally they are not as convenient, and good fixed NDs are big and expensive.  But good VDF are not free either. The VND are not too bad at lower numbers.

They have the small, fixed ND holders now that are pretty easy to use. 

[newfoundmass]

3 hours ago, FoxAdriano said:

Hey friends, I recently bought the GH6 with Leica 12-60mm. Do you take away a curiosity? I make videos in 4K, 50p, 10bit, 4: 2: 2 only in V-Log and I thought not to buy a VND but an ND filter with only one lens, for example a Hoya PROND 3 stop. With the variable ND filter of 100-200 euros I fear the video image quality degrades too much. I like the good image quality. I only make quick documentaries, always outside on days with bright sun or lightly clouded skies. I shoot the daily life of the peoples. Does anyone use fixed ND or ..... do you absolutely recommend the VND? Thank you

ND is ALMOST always superior to VND, though I wouldn't go as far as to say even the worst ND is better than the best VND like webrunner5 would. VND are popular for their convenience, not their quality. That's not to say a good VND filter can't be good quality though. For the kind of work you describe I'd probably go with a VND so that you aren't having to switch filters all the time, which is a good way to miss shots. 

Depending on your budget there are a lot of options. NiSi has probably the best sub-$200 USD VND. The really cheap ones tend to have more color casting, though that can be fixed relatively easily. 

[TomTheDP]

A lot of times the Vari ND gets you the shot that a fixed wouldn't. The other option is to use a fixed ND that will give about the exposure you'll usually need outdoors and rely on the cameras latitude to fix the rest in post.

[kye]

46 minutes ago, TomTheDP said:

A lot of times the Vari ND gets you the shot that a fixed wouldn't. The other option is to use a fixed ND that will give about the exposure you'll usually need outdoors and rely on the cameras latitude to fix the rest in post.

Or adjust ISO.  Most cameras ISO is good enough when only adjusted within a few stops of native that it is better than a cheaper VND. 

[FoxAdriano]

1 hour ago, kye said:

Or adjust ISO.  Most cameras ISO is good enough when only adjusted within a few stops of native that it is better than a cheaper VND. 

I was thinking about it. In the sunny days my GH6 will always have the filter mounted with 3 stops. Infact the native ISO of GH6 is low (ISO 250) and with V-Log you have to overexpose around 2 stops, so you rarely need a filter above 3 stops, even in sunny days. But when you are in the shadows areas, you raise the ISO. Is this a bad idea? Or without any filter I will always have to shoot between f11, f16 and f22.

[hyalinejim]

2 hours ago, FoxAdriano said:

with V-Log you have to overexpose around 2 stops

You don't have to overexpose V-Log by 2 stops. You can, if you want, but you run the risk of losing highlight information. If nothing is clipping, then it's fine as long as you have a way of accurately lowering the exposure in post.

Incidentally, the GH6 fixed the problem whereby the meter reading was a stop out in V-Log. The GH5 will indicate that the correct exposure is one stop overexposed. The same settings on the GH6 will give a centred reading. Maybe this is partly why the advice to overexpose V-Log exists (not that I remember hearing that too much).

On the subject of NDs, there are three areas where a variable ND can mess with an image:

1. Softness - most contemporary models seem to have this one sorted, ie: very little or no softness

2. Colour cast - as you dial in more ND the colour cast can change and/or the filter can have a cast at its lowest setting. The workaround here is to WB while shooting or in post.

3. Polarisation - this is the biggest and most unavoidable problem. All variable NDs, as far as I know, are two circular polarisers stacked. As you rotate your view in relation to the sun the amount of polarised light hitting the camera changes , and as you rotate the ND filter the amount of that light that gets blocked changes. Blocking polarised light means that reflections on foliage, skin, water, glass will be reduced. Sometimes the look is desirable and sometimes it's unnatural. My long in the tooth SLR Magic Vari-ND II has a workaround for this whereby you can loosen and tighten a locking ring that allows you to rotate the whole filter and thus adjust the amount of polarisation (it works, but takes a bit of time). Furthermore, with wide angle lenses and with some vari NDs stopped down a lot you will get the dreaded X pattern.

It's point number 3 that is the biggest downfall of vari-NDs and a fixed ND avoids this. However, I'm willing to put up with the shortcomings for the amazing convenience of being able to smoothly increase or decrease exposure by turning a ring. I was doing an outdoor interview shoot the other day and the sun was going in and out on a regular basis. I kept the overall exposure balanced using the ND in a way that would have been impossible by using the exposure controls.

However, shooting something more slow paced I would prefer to be using fixed NDs. You could look into Freewell's magnetic fixed ND system. They are stackable and you can choose the strengths you require. For example, if you bought a 1, 2 and 4 you could stack them to achieve discrete 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 stops. That won't be enough to shoot wide open in bright daylight at ISO 2000, but it gives you an idea. Then, of course, the problem becomes how many filters can you stack without softening the image or introducing unwanted reflections.

[FoxAdriano]

I thank you for your advice. You are a professional guy and I accept everything you tell me because I don't have your experience. But your words show that you don't use GH6 and I tell you the reason. ;) I live in the land of the sun;) and today I shot at 11 am and there was a strong sun. I have been using a UV filter all the time without ever using an ND filter. I always shot at various apertures and at most with f14. I got great images that I viewed on a large monitor. So I think with the GH6 you can shoot without ND filters, unless you have to study an image and blur the back of the subject.

I repeat I have had GH6 for a few days and I have no experience but I have noticed that I get better results when I overexpose to an aperture and a half. In full sun I get a more vibrant image. If I don't overexpose, then I get a dull and flattened image and then in post I have to work harder to be able to improve it but without success. Why does this happen to me? I thank you again.

[PannySVHS]

Iso 2000 at f14 is equivalent to f3.5 at iso 500, Let´s even say the GH6 is to be rated on stop lower than indicated by factory, it would be F3.5 at Iso 250 with a shutterspeed set to 50.

That sounds hard or not possible to believe in the land of sun @FoxAdriano. I would at that point like to shy away from discussing that kind of exposure, if you allow. If you use higher shutter speeds, then I will believe in physics again. 🙂

[webrunner5]

Yeah, you get into Diffraction pretty big time, especially using MFT.

[hyalinejim]

5 hours ago, FoxAdriano said:

today I shot at 11 am and there was a strong sun. I have been using a UV filter all the time without ever using an ND filter. I always shot at various apertures and at most with f14. I got great images

Sounds like you're shooting with a fast shutter speed there. Most video shooters prefer to shoot at 1 / (2 x frame rate) which for 24 or 25p is 1/50. 

By the Sunny 16 rule that means an aperture of f22 at ISO 100. Let's assume that you're happy to live with the massive depth of field and diffraction that entails. Well, at ISO 2000, f22 at 1/50s is more than four stops overexposed, which for GH6 VLog with DR boost enabled means you would get about one stop of highlight detail above middle grey.

NDs allow videographers to maintain their chosen shutter speed in bright light. Photographers have the luxury of shooting at very fast shutter speeds if they wish.

[FoxAdriano]

I'm honestly worried about the things you are telling me, I swear. But I assure you that I am shooting in Manual with in V-Log, 50p, 1/100, 250 ISO, 4: 2: 2 and DR boost is disabled. I certainly did the tests expecting everything to be in focus in the clips. I've never shot with f16 and I've never used ND filter, but only the UV filter. Yesterday I went next to a river with white gravel and I shot with f14 and got EXCELLENT clips. It was 11 o'clock on a sunny day. Honestly, from what you are telling me I am worried, even though I am getting good clips. What could I do to check if my GH6 is configured well? I am 100% sure that I am using my GH6 in Manual with those options I have listed above.

[FoxAdriano]

14 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

Iso 2000 at f14 is equivalent to f3.5 at iso 500, Let´s even say the GH6 is to be rated on stop lower than indicated by factory, it would be F3.5 at Iso 250 with a shutterspeed set to 50.

I would at that point like to shy away from discussing that kind of exposure, if you allow. If you use higher shutter speeds, then I will believe in physics again. 🙂

I NEVER shoot with shutterspeed set to 50 but 100. I always shoot in V-Log, 4K, 50p and 1/100