Panasonic GH6

[thebrothersthre3]

I feel like the GH6 could do well if it matches the A7s3 specs, plus all Panasonic's usual high end video features and full Vlog. That plus a much lower $1500 price point, it would definitely have an audience. A lot of vloggers love Pana IBIS, if they could just get their AF together they'd get a pretty good share of that market I'd guess. 

All these recent cameras are great but they all have close to $4000 price tags.

[Amazeballs]

A7S3 is actually 4200€ in all of the world except USA which translates into 5000$ - a prohibitive amount of money. So yeah, 1500$ for those specs with working AF would be an instant buy from me. And this AF better be working with speesboosted canon lenses. 

[Video Hummus]

At the end of the LUMIX Live YouTube streams they have been joking about it. I’m sure they have something but I’m not sure the market is there.

World is on fire right now. Some more then others unfortunately 🙁 (not an R5 joke; Incase anybody shits their pants in anger).

[Amazeballs]

I presume they might just not have a fresh sensor from Sony and they in are in dire need for one. 

[anonim]

While negotiating for new sensor, Panasonic simply could combine Pocket 4k and Z cam M2 specs with the rest of Panasonic GH5 virtues and put it at any size and form body they like, being box, camcorder, dlsr-like or  something modular innovative - but they don't want to do that. There's no enough easy money there for retro lust calculation of their anachronistic CEOs minds - which already made GH5s so huge serious income fall.

Maybe it is common sign and common result of aging decision board - Panasonic success and breakthrough impact of GH2 once has been founded of philosophy of being comparatively bold and friendly-supportive close to mass of aspiring, mostly young content makers. After ten years such philosophy and sensibility changed almost 180 degrees - symbolically, paying effort to become Netflix approved status of B in middle or C in big budget production. Gifted students, lower Brandon Lee type travelers, rebellious and hippy style spirits of all sorts from all parts of the rapidly leveraging world will certainly not buy FF fetish kit dlsr body tool for 5-6000 euros.

@kye Of course in theory your words about differences of GH5 body and Pocket 4k form has foundation. But in praxis IMO not to much,  simply because of extremely similar profile of real world buyers... except pure tourists and happy rich wanderers couples (but as I see even they are not exception! ), every shooting seance in harsh environment anyway needs camera protection. Actually I think that bad estimation of properly targeted user base and its priorities has its part in losing so hard market battle. Once upon a time I knew many video making content houses that openly or secretly change their REDs for GH5+audio module there where clients were not fashionably sensitive about used brend for their needs. Instead of just proceed on the wave of such huge success, with finally adding advanced RAW codec, offering option for neutralization of NR distortion of image, even be first to make proper m43 cinema lens etc. - Panasonic's decision was to actually stop for a while or forever serious developing of m43 and chase for bigger profit per one camera sold. In a meanwhile P4k is still in a regular 'out of stocks' status after two years...

[sanveer]

On 7/31/2020 at 5:50 PM, Video Hummus said:

I disagree. I think there still is life in M43. The current releases from Sony and Canon underscore the fact that the majority of FF mirrorless cameras are not bulletproof for production work.

You articulated it precisely.  FF cameras have to be huge, to be able to manage reliability issues. The 5D's all the way upto Mark iv only has like 30 mins of recording time, and half or less of that with higher frame rates. And the 1Dx is HUGE, even compared to something like the S1H (though, to be fair, it has a hugh attached battery grip).

 

 

On 7/31/2020 at 5:50 PM, Video Hummus said:

I disagree. I think there still is life in M43. The current releases from Sony and Canon underscore the fact that the majority of FF mirrorless cameras are not bulletproof for production work.

Panasonic is slotted in between black magic and the higher end offferings from Canon/Nikon/Sony. I think they proved with the S1H that they made the right decision in form factor and including a fan and they have also proven they can deliver the image. S1H footage is beautiful.

If they can close the gap with black magic while improving on their existing AF technology (or scrapping it for something new) then they offer something much different then black magic in well-built, weather sealed, reliable, camera bodies. Something BM struggles with. I think BM puts out an amazing image, but for the fact that I have to put my camera away for light weather conditions (not to mention their track record on reliability) BM doesn’t give me what I want.

The biggest hurtle is convincing people the DoF and marginal lowlight increase (in most shooting conditions) is worth the trade for typically what M43 offers

I agree. People say full frame all the time, like camera sensors larger and smaller than it, are somehow greatly inferior. Which is not even remotely the case. Overheating during video seems to still be a huge issue with many ILCs, and that includes FF and APS-C cameras, that try and cram larger sensors into proportionally smaller bodies and also have lousy heat sinks.

Panasonic has to make a precise effort to only improve everything that the GH5 and GH5s have, and use these cameras to attract the M43 camera audience of BMCC4k and ZCam. While it can never replace RAW (with anything except perhaps RAW), it can offer advantages that actual cinema cameras will never have like weather sealing, IBIS, the ability to be used for photography with ease, ease of use, extremely ergonomics design, great battery life and usable almost right out of the box etc. 

The FF depth of field is almost like a joke. I noticed that a lot of TV episodes shot on the 5D have such terrible focus issues, and because the DoF is so thin, its almost impossible to get it right at higher apertures, without superb autofocus. Also, for wildlife too, at higher apertures, opened wide, it would blur the background and perhaps parts of a subject's face too much. 

 

23 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

Panasonic M43 and FF can coexist. I think its especially important, more than ever, to have the next GH camera absolutely let loose with specs and capabilities. It might hurt S1H sales...sure but I think only because the GH is so well respected at this point.

 

M43 is 1/4th the sensor size of FF (actually the proportion is 1/3.6th for non MARs Sensors and the GH5s sensor is even larger). Therefore Full Frame will always offer better exposure latitude, better low light and better dynamic range. Though the XT3/XT4 (and even Nikon APS-C offerings such as the D700 and other after that), have shown, that the returns are diminishing and marginal, as the sensor and pixel size keeps increasing.  Also, 13-14 sops for video as SNR of 1 seems possible and more in the ball park of 12 usable stops at SNR of 2 seems reasonable. So, M43 cameras can be reasonably close to FF in quality, at a much greater price advantage. And way greater reliability. 

 

 

 

[sanveer]

10 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

I feel like the GH6 could do well if it matches the A7s3 specs, plus all Panasonic's usual high end video features and full Vlog. That plus a much lower $1500 price point, it would definitely have an audience. A lot of vloggers love Pana IBIS, if they could just get their AF together they'd get a pretty good share of that market I'd guess. 

All these recent cameras are great but they all have close to $4000 price tags.

I couldn't agree more. The R6 is $2499, the R5 is $3899 and the A7siii is $3498. Out of these, only 2 are Hybrids, and the A7siii can solely be used for video. All 3 seem to have overheating issues, and their battery life is still to be tested. And then there are all sorts of crop factors, further in video, and rolling shutter seems to have improved, but an M43 sensor should offer vastly imporoved rolling shutter, for the same generation sensor technology. 

Because the R6 is $2499, the R5 is $3899 and the A7siii is $3498, Panasonic should target both the GH6 and GH6s (If a GH6s is required) at $1750 each (Or lower, considering the XT3 and XT4). That would be half the price of the A7siii, and offer many advantages over that camera and many disadvantages compared to it too. I suddenly feel that the bit-depth should be increased to 16-bit, from the present 12-bit. It will help improve the photographic capabilities of the GH line, and also improve how it handles the image in general, helping with exposure latitude that is usually a weakness of the M43 photographic cameras.


Panasonic also should avoid the specs race for EVF and few other things, to ensure perfect cost cutting, without compromising features. 
I have a few more ideas to help gear up the GH6 Series, to make them relevant for another 3-4 years, with the right features. 

 

 

[sanveer]

 

And Panasonic absolutely needs PDAF. There is no alternative to it.  

 

[anonim]

31 minutes ago, sanveer said:

Panasonic should target both the GH6 and GH6s (If a GH6s is required) at $1750 each (Or lower, considering the XT3 and XT4).

Early stage of domination of profit lust (over really targeting-sensibility and vision) destroyed GH5s, more over when stayed marry with 2500e even year and half after born of Pocket4k for two times less. Next stage of profit lust obsession of retro-thinking-board is responsible for stopping or postponing serious developing of m43. Terminal will be when (if at all) GH6 will be announced for 3000e plus some sort of paying add, and GH6s for 3500e... at the moment when BM day after will announce say m43 camera with APS-C 6-8k sensor behind for 2000e. I'm longing for GH6 but Panasonic's market decisions and price estimation not at all look promising to me.

[sanveer]

2 minutes ago, anonim said:

Early stage of domination of profit lust (over really targeting-sensibility and vision) destroyed GH5s, more over when stayed marry with 2500e even year and half after born of Pocket4k for two times less. Next stage of profit lust obsession of retro-thinking-board is responsible for stopping or postponing serious developing of m43. Terminal will be when (if at all) GH6 will be announced for 3000e plus some sort of paying add, and GH6s for 3500e... at the moment when BM day after will announce say m43 camera with APS-C 6-8k sensor behind for 2000e. I'm longing for GH6 but Panasonic's market decisions and price estimation not at all look promising to me.

If Panasonic the GH6 or GH6s anywhere over $2000, it will be a monumental disaster. M43 has always maintained the price and size advantage over FF and even APS-C (apart from reliability).  It's already lost the size advantage, thanks to terribly size FF and APS-C cameras, and the ever increasing size of M43. If they lose the price advantage too, they are doomed. 

 

I also feel, Panasonic needs to fix the HDMI lag (apart from the slow and often unreliable video autofocus). 

[thebrothersthre3]

2 hours ago, anonim said:

Early stage of domination of profit lust (over really targeting-sensibility and vision) destroyed GH5s, more over when stayed marry with 2500e even year and half after born of Pocket4k for two times less. Next stage of profit lust obsession of retro-thinking-board is responsible for stopping or postponing serious developing of m43. Terminal will be when (if at all) GH6 will be announced for 3000e plus some sort of paying add, and GH6s for 3500e... at the moment when BM day after will announce say m43 camera with APS-C 6-8k sensor behind for 2000e. I'm longing for GH6 but Panasonic's market decisions and price estimation not at all look promising to me.

I think it wasn't just the price but the fact that the Pocket 4k offered so much more spec wise. When the GH5S was announced I had really hoped it would have 4k 120 and 10 bit 4k 60p but it failed to deliver either. Plus it didn't have RAW like the Pocket 4k did. 

With 4k 60p 10 bit and 4k 120p it would have been a contender even without RAW. The ergonomics and usability combined with those specs would have turned some heads. Alas it was just a GH5 without IBIS and a 12mp sensor(no IBIS was another huge bummer). 

[Video Hummus]

16 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

When the GH5S was announced I had really hoped it would have 4k 120 and 10 bit 4k 60p

Yes, and if you look at the sensor spec sheet it looks like it can do 4K60p 10-bit just as the Zcam E2 M4 offers.

Probably a lack of processing or heat concerns in the GH5S body.

Also, looking at the bit depth and 2K readouts I never go above 120p either as the noise is unacceptable in almost anything that isn’t perfect conditions. So I would recommend shooting max 100p PAL or 96fps NTSC.

Anything higher and you drop into 10-bit sensor output.

 

[thebrothersthre3]

4 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

Yes, and if you look at the sensor spec sheet it looks like it can do 4K60p 10-bit just as the Zcam E2 M4 offers.

Probably a lack of processing or heat concerns in the GH5S body.

Also, looking at the bit depth and 2K readouts I never go above 120p either as the noise is unacceptable in almost anything that isn’t perfect conditions. So I would recommend shooting max 100p PAL or 96fps NTSC.

Anything higher and you drop into 10-bit sensor output.

 

Yeah understandable probably just disappointing. A downsampled 120p HD rather than lineskipped would have been cool too. 

[Video Hummus]

19 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Yeah understandable probably just disappointing. A downsampled 120p HD rather than lineskipped would have been cool too. 

I thought it did do oversampled HD and thats one of the reasons I bought it. I learned later that isn’t the case. Big bummer. Oh well, I still like it and I’ve used 96fps mode with ex-teleconveter on my 50-200 at f4 and the image holds up.

[Origami101]

I find the lack of credible rumours a bit disconcerting. I mean we’ve now seen the R5 and A7S III, know the Z6S’s coming, and there’s not even a whisper about a GH6? Not a great sign. 

[sanveer]

2 hours ago, Origami101 said:

I find the lack of credible rumours a bit disconcerting. I mean we’ve now seen the R5 and A7S III, know the Z6S’s coming, and there’s not even a whisper about a GH6? Not a great sign. 

A lot of issues with newer ILC releases seems to be that Sony has almost sole monopoly of ILC image sensors. If Canon wasn't round, there would have only been Sony ILCs. So in some ways Sony attempts to abuse its control of the sensor Market. I noticed this with the release of the A7Riv, being almost immediately after Fuji released its medium format 100MP camera the fujifilm gfx 100. And surprisingly they seem to have similar dynamic range and the exact same Pixel pitch. Which means that they're probably made from the same silicon wafer. The Sony also undercut the Fuji in price and size, and then features as well. Which makes me wonder, that since many times the same technology of sensors are used in varying sensors sizes, with the same bit (depth) ADC, sensors with the same pixel, should, theoretically provide not just the exact same dynamic range, but also the same exposure latitude. Which means that if the GH6 and the Sony A7Riv were made from the same wafer, they should, theoretically have the same dynamic range and exposure latitude. Correct me if I am wrong. 

Maybe this is the right time for Panasonic to start giving out its list to the rumor sites. BRAW would be a great feature, if it doesn't plan to have with ProRes onboard. Or perform a compression trick with CDNG that doesn't violate on that rubbish fake Patent of RED. 

[MeanRevert]

Only thing I’ve seen is mention of the Panasonic S5.

[sanveer]

What's S5? 

[anonim]

8 minutes ago, sanveer said:

A lot of issues with newer ILC releases seems to be that Sony has almost sole monopoly of ILC image sensors. If Canon wasn't round, there would have only been Sony ILCs. So in some ways Sony attempts to abuse its control of the sensor Market.

Please, I bet you are pretty well informed, so I'd like to take the opportunity to ask here instead searching elsewhere: what sensor is inside already firmly announced Sharp's m43 8k camera?

[MeanRevert]

7 minutes ago, sanveer said:

What's S5? 

Their smaller version of the S1