Panasonic GH6

[Amazeballs]

Sigma is building up accesible L-mount lenses slowly but surely. The main problem with l-mount imo - absence of competitive AF. I dont want to invest in the system that doesn't have it. 

[Amazeballs]

Panasonic could actually make a really good and successful camera right now, both in the face of GH6 and a new L-mount offering. Just add PDAF sensor and 4k120p 10 bit to both of them. They have everything else - proper cooling , ergo, IBIS and etc. They just need adequate frame-rates and PDAF. That's is. Canon bombed heavily with R5\R6, Sony is the only player but even their camera overheats. 

[Phil A]

I would agree that one of the main reasons that holds Panasonic back at the moment is their subpar auto focus performance. It took them so many firmware updates with the GH5 and their DfD gets an somewhat okish video AF performance some of the time with native lenses, it's absolutely unusable with adapted lenses. That's just not something I want for my next camera as I'm not shooting narrative / team based stuff.

For photography the AF is actually decent, especially the AF-S is pretty good and eye detection reliable, both with native and adapted glass. But then the GH5 is not ideal for that either, if I use the Sigma 30mm 1.4 in EF mount with a focal reducer, I hit nearly 1.4kg for a setup I could realize (for photography, focus being on the aesthetic characteristics of the image) at around half the weight by going Sony with e.g. the Samyang 45mm 1.8. The native lenses are of course super light weight but I doubt anyone who is into photography will get too excited about shooting the Panasonic 25mm 1.7.

[IronFilm]

4 hours ago, Phil A said:

The native lenses are of course super light weight but I doubt anyone who is into photography will get too excited about shooting the Panasonic 25mm 1.7.

No, but I'm looking forward to shooting with the Olympus 45mm f1.8 when I pick it up later this week!

[BTM_Pix]

4 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

No, but I'm looking forward to shooting with the Olympus 45mm f1.8 when I pick it up later this week!

Its a lovely little lens.

I've always got my eye out for the 75mm too but I have an unrealistically low price in mind after missing out on one at a Cash Converters for £200 a couple of years ago so it still eludes me!

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

6 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Its a lovely little lens.

I've always got my eye out for the 75mm too but I have an unrealistically low price in mind after missing out on one at a Cash Converters for £200 a couple of years ago so it still eludes me!

Have it, love it. Only problem - not always trivial to use a 150mm eq lens anywhere. 🙂

The 3 MFT lenses that, when I browse through my photos and find one that gets my attention, 90% of time was taken with the Oly 75mm 1.8, Oly 54mm 1.8 or the Panasonic 20mm 1.7.

[Video Hummus]

I just picked up a 7artisans 55mm f/1.4. Hasn’t come yet. It was $120. It’s going to be something like a 99mm f2.5 DoF on my GH5S.

$120...why not.

I too want the Oly 75mm but I can’t justify the cost and I can’t find it cheap anywhere so the waiting continues here as well.

[newfoundmass]

2 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

I just picked up a 7artisans 55mm f/1.4. Hasn’t come yet. It was $120. It’s going to be something like a 99mm f2.5 DoF on my GH5S.

$120...why not.

I too want the Oly 75mm but I can’t justify the cost and I can’t find it cheap anywhere so the waiting continues here as well.

The 7artisans lenses are actually quite decent for the price. I think you'll be happy with it. 

[IronFilm]

7 hours ago, Márcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

Have it, love it. Only problem - not always trivial to use a 150mm eq lens anywhere. 🙂

Great for spies ;-)

But seriously, it isn't that long. After all the classic 70-200mm f2.8 is a very popular FF lens. 

And a 75mm f1.8 MFT lens fits nicely in the middle of that as a fast prime lens alternative. 

I'd quite like to collect the whole collection of small/lightweight/"cheap" f1.7 (or f1.8) primes from Panasonic (or Olympus): 15mm, 25mm, 42.5mm (or 45mm in my case, as I'm getting the Olympus instead), and 75mm (would be nice if there was something even wider at the opposite end like a 10mm f1.8?? Maybe the Laowa 7.5mm f/2 is what is needed to round out this collection of primes).

Already got the 25mm/45mm, am considering right now an offer for a Panasonic 15mm f1.7 I got offered to buy. 

[Amazeballs]

I just sold my Oly 75 1.8 and Pany 25 1.4 being left with Sigma 18-35 and Pana 14-140 zoom only. But today I have ordered Tamron 60 2.0 Macro which I am gonna use on my speedbooster to get 40mm 1.4 equivalent (in m43 terms) for cheap.. and with 1:1 macro capabilities. I've got it for like 144$ so at that price point I was interested to get a portrait and macro all-in-one lens for my current setup. I don't want to invest into m43 lenses at all atm, cos the future of the system very unclear. 

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

Test that I would like to see and never found: a comparison between the Panasonic cheap kit zooms. The 12-32 pancake, the 14-42 II (the smaller one, not the first version that came in the GH2 times, which is garbage) and the 12-60 (not the Panaleica).

The sites that tested the 3 always used distinct methods / cameras.

[BTM_Pix]

56 minutes ago, Márcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

Test that I would like to see and never found: a comparison between the Panasonic cheap kit zooms. The 12-32 pancake, the 14-42 II (the smaller one, not the first version that came in the GH2 times, which is garbage) and the 12-60 (not the Panaleica).

The sites that tested the 3 always used distinct methods / cameras.

I could do you one between the 12-32 and the PanaLeica 12-60 as I actually have them both on my bench at the moment because I'm "up to something" with them.

On the basis that if it competes with that far more expensive one then you'd be on to a winner ?

It wouldn't be very elaborate as I'm too stretched to go anywhere (so a Spyder LensCal and ColorChecker at say 12, 26, 24 and 32 would be the scope of it) and it wouldn't be for a few days but let me know.

[sanveer]

Since Panasonic's USP is video, and that is what established the almost cult status for the GH2 and  pushed the GH5 ahead of the competition for so many years, Panasonic can do this, to eat Sony and Canon's lunch. 

1. Create the GH6 and GH6s with faster readout of 4k and 6k, 4k at 120fps and 6k at atleast 6k at 60p, and RAW, out through the HDMI (or dual cables for USB 3.2) or into a re-designed YAGH at $500. Also, 1080p at 240fps. All with 10-bit 422 and 14-bit RAW options (compressed out of camera). 

2. It needs to create a new YAGH version (about 30% the size of the original) and the unit's sole purpose should be to compress RAW into various settings (which should prevent it from suffering from RED's fake compression patent issues), and then allowing it to be transferred to a tiny SSD unit (which could be parked within that). And the GH6 Series and the Yagh Version could be connected via USB 3.2 (they could do a double USB 3.2) connection, and this should speed things up considerably). Panasonic could sell this unit for $500 and users could buy the tiny SSD seperately. Also, I suspect that one of the latest off the shelf Snapdragon or Mediatek processors could do this. 

3. With a $1750, it could easily eat into the Market of Every Video Shooting ILC including the Sony A7siii and even the R5. And, both of those have different levels of reliability, especially on the field (neither of which could be high enough). Considering that an (in)famous site for filmmaking gear testing, has finally moved the A7sii from 14 stops to 10.6 stops of usable dynamic range (which is less than the 10.7 that they've given the GH5s), it should be safe to assume, that with the latest generation of M43 sensors, and better VLog as well as CDNG, the next Generation of GH Cameras should be in the ballpark of 11.5+ stops, rated conservatively, by the same site. Which means, this figure should be very similar to that from the A7siii and the R5 and R6, when tested by the same site or within ).5 stopd of either). 

Panasonic should not think of the GH Series eating into the FF market. They're very different segments and peopple's mindsets govern that, even more than the actual capabilities or feature set. 

[scotchtape]

Yes but remember the rumors about Sony not allowing PDAF on the sensors they sold to Panny... and Sony is essentially the King of sensors right now...

So Panny would have to find someone else for the sensors.  I'm not an expert in the field, but who else makes good sensors that can sell them to Panny?

[sanveer]

30 minutes ago, scotchtape said:

Yes but remember the rumors about Sony not allowing PDAF on the sensors they sold to Panny... and Sony is essentially the King of sensors right now...

So Panny would have to find someone else for the sensors.  I'm not an expert in the field, but who else makes good sensors that can sell them to Panny?

Canon, who probably doesn't make M43 sensors and doesn't also apparently doesn't sell to anyone else. 

Unless Panasonic convince Canon to make an M43 sensor for them. Theoretically, Samsung should also have a sensor, from their various wafers, that they could simply cut to M43 size. Though they may have to match exact Panasonic requirements. Also, Samsung does dual pixel PDAF extremely well.

Samsung had circumvented the lack of dual pixel on it's own 108MP sensor with a ToF sensor in the Note20. And it seems to have done it extremely well. Panasonic could easily use ToF to  circumvent the Sony sensor purchase  conditions. 

[Video Hummus]

1 hour ago, sanveer said:

Canon, who probably doesn't make M43 sensors and doesn't also apparently doesn't sell to anyone else. 

Unless Panasonic convince Canon to make an M43 sensor for them. Theoretically, Samsung should also have a sensor, from their various wafers, that they could simply cut to M43 size. Though they may have to match exact Panasonic requirements. Also, Samsung does dual pixel PDAF extremely well.

Samsung had circumvented the lack of dual pixel on it's own 108MP sensor with a ToF sensor in the Note20. And it seems to have done it extremely well. Panasonic could easily use ToF to  circumvent the Sony sensor purchase  conditions. 

If they were to move away from Sony I think the only viable partner for sensor technology would be Samsung.

Hoewever, the business relationships between Korean and Japanese companies hasn’t been stellar.

I think we would have seen PDAF by now in a Panasonic camera. For whatever reason, we don’t.

I see nothing wrong with Panasonic using a ToF sensor (if integrated well) in conjunction with their DfD to supply reliable autofocus at useable distances (1-5 meters) and then switching over to DfD past that.

Its not perfect but it may be good enough for interviews, gimbal work, vlogging, family backyard.

If Panasonic doesn’t do it we always have @BTM_Pix device, possibly.

[BTM_Pix]

3 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

If Panasonic doesn’t do it we always have @BTM_Pix device, possibly.

Possibly?

I'll have you know its almost certainly perhaps potentially conceivably in all likelihood going to happen.

At some point.

[IronFilm]

8 hours ago, sanveer said:

2. It needs to create a new YAGH version (about 30% the size of the original) and the unit's sole purpose should be to compress RAW into various settings (which should prevent it from suffering from RED's fake compression patent issues), and then allowing it to be transferred to a tiny SSD unit (which could be parked within that). And the GH6 Series and the Yagh Version could be connected via USB 3.2 (they could do a double USB 3.2) connection, and this should speed things up considerably). Panasonic could sell this unit for $500 and users could buy the tiny SSD seperately. Also, I suspect that one of the latest off the shelf Snapdragon or Mediatek processors could do this. 

The new YAGH v2.0 has to have internal powering, unlike the original which was external only. (although having both external and internal is nice too)

[sanveer]

6 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

If they were to move away from Sony I think the only viable partner for sensor technology would be Samsung.

Hoewever, the business relationships between Korean and Japanese companies hasn’t been stellar.

Samsung had been using Sony Image Sensors in its smartphones for pretty long. Now that its market share had gone up substantially, it's dependence on Sony had gone down. Also, apparently, Sony's smartphone division uses a few Samsung Sensors. Also, Panasonic doesn't really have an option, since Sony has been using its market dominance for unfair trade practices. 

6 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

I see nothing wrong with Panasonic using a ToF sensor (if integrated well) in conjunction with their DfD to supply reliable autofocus at useable distances (1-5 meters) and then switching over to DfD past that.

Like I already mentioned, Samsung is using it with aparently great success on the new Note20 series, and early early testing seems to suggest that it's doing well. 

51 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

The new YAGH v2.0 has to have internal powering, unlike the original which was external only. (although having both external and internal is nice too)

I agree. The older YAGH was a design failure. Oversized and lacking even a battery inside. 

[Amazeballs]

I am still very skeptical about the rumor of Sony denying Panasonic with a PDAF sensor. Why exclusevly Panasonic?