Panasonic GH6

[Origami101]

12 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

There can be a future for M43, it just really depends on if Panasonic wants there to be one and if they're willing to pull out all the stops.

I'll go further and say there should be a future for M4/3 but might not since Panasonic's backed themselves into a strategic corner.

To start with, why should M4/3 hang around? Well, aside from the obvious benefits that it generally yields smaller and lighter camera kits —especially for telephoto—has sufficient image quality for both stills and video and is broadly supported, there’s two other distinct advantages. The first is, for any given sensor generation, a M4/3 sensor will read data off faster. This is where I think the traditional camera makers have gotten lost. Did the stunning jumps in iPhone image quality come from bigger sensors? They’ve gotten marginally larger, but no. The jumps have come from throwing massive amounts of computational power at the data, which means reading it as fast as you can. Blown highlights? Merge multiple exposures. Terrible low-light performance? Same! But with different algorithms. Excessive depth of field? Depth map! A smaller, but still sufficient, sensor like M4/3 fits the computational imaging paradigm better. And as a bonus, they’ll also hold an edge in IBIS, heat generation, and battery drain due to the smaller size and mass.

The second is smaller sensors—or more accurately, smaller image circles—have distinct theoretical advantages for lens design. I don’t pretend to understand the theory, though I do know the complexity of making lens elements increases with the cube of its diameter, so all things equal you should get better, smaller, or cheaper lenses for M4/3 for any given field of view versus larger formats.

Which leads to the tragedy of Panasonic going the L mount route (in the dumb business decision sense, not Romeo and Juliette). I get the rationale of wanting to consolidate their cinema and Lumix lines on one mount, and the logic m4/3 was too small for the former. The problem was they picked a sensor size, 135 format, putting them in direct competition with Sony and Canon, who offered, or were inevitably going to offer, soup to nuts mirrorless solutions, picked a mount designed for APS-C, and stranded their entire current user base. Heck of a job, guys.

Worse, since L mount is now their halo product, they’ll be loathe to undercut it by offering better features on m4/3, even if they’re technically feasible. So a GH6 that substantially outperforms the S1 or S1H? Probably not going to happen, even if S series sales continually underperform. But I would love to be proved wrong.

[newfoundmass]

45 minutes ago, Origami101 said:

Worse, since L mount is now their halo product, they’ll be loathe to undercut it by offering better features on m4/3, even if they’re technically feasible. So a GH6 that substantially outperforms the S1 or S1H? Probably not going to happen, even if S series sales continually underperform. But I would love to be proved wrong.

The thing is, I don't think a GH6 that substantially outperforms those cameras would even hurt their full frame sales because those are the people that won't consider anything smaller than full frame anyway. 

Sensor size is not a major selling point for me. If I end up going full frame it's because I was forced to or the value was just too hard to beat, not because I NEED full frame. As it stands, as I look at other options, I'm looking at APS-C more than full frame. If Panasonic abandons M43 and I go with Sony, I see myself getting a couple A6600 bodies and MAYBE splurge for full frame lenses so I'm "future proof." Yes the A7siii intrigues me but not because of the full frame sensor. I'd be as equally compelled by it if it were APS-C, maybe even more so if given a lower price tag. 

I don't know, part of me feels like I'm being overly negative but at the same time, I'm really disappointed with how things have played out. I've never been a fan boy, I've just stuck with Panasonic because they gave me tremendous value and were leaders in innovation. But if they leave M43 users hanging I just can't justify supporting them even if I wanted to go the S1H or S5 route, because I'd have no reason to believe they wouldn't do the same in the future. 

[Video Hummus]

The Cost for Panasonic to have Sony manufacture a MFT 4/3 sensor, that isn’t a security camera sensor with a very narrow feature set, is probably rising by the day. Especially since Olympus is essentially gone.

They said they were going to look into leaning into MFT strengths and their next cameras was...the BGH1.

I would be very surprised to see a GH6, especially since Panasonic had been completely quiet.

They would be better off making their FF cameras competitive because everything is trending up from there. 

[IronFilm]

10 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

I don't know if you watched the video by Photo Joseph where he interviews Matt Frazer from Panasonic but the issue with a built in neutral density filter is that they would have to take out the mechanical shutter to make room for it (if they wanted to continue using the same lens mount). So, if they made a camera with a build in ND, they would need to have electronic-shutter only. Now, that might not be a bad thing, but I am guessing the sensor would require very fast read speeds.

Have exactly ZERO problems with the GH5S losing the mechanical shutter, and gaining an eND. 

How many people are buying the GH5S anyway for serious hard core photography usage? 

10 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Agreed. I am sad that my seven-year-old a6000 (bought second hand for $300) and $100 kit lens focuses better than my S1 and 24-105 f/4 do. Heck, my a5100 that I bought off craigs list for $125 has better AF than my S1 😞

Ouch! I used to shoot with an a5100 (over heating SUUUUUUUUCKED! But otherwise I liked that camera), sad to hear AF hasn't got better than that standard set by the a5100 years ago. 

[MrSMW]

3 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Have exactly ZERO problems with the GH5S losing the mechanical shutter, and gaining an eND. 

How many people are buying the GH5S anyway for serious hard core photography usage? 

Neither would I but it limits the mass market sales appeal and possibly even kills it?

This is a video-centric forum so naturally, we’d like to see more video-orientated kit, but with global sales of cameras that are not phones falling year on year, where is the market?

I’m still not sure why Panasonic has not gone PDAF in principle and my concern as a FF user is that the S5 might be their last camera.

If the GH6 doesn’t come, I do think 4/3 is dead. Existing kit will still work the same as it ever did, but nothing new will be coming, less and less will buy into it and ultimately it will die.

If the next FF Panasonic camera...if there even is one...doesn’t have PDAF, they are doomed.

And this is a real concern as someone who at some point needs to spend on a full system as I currently only have one body and a couple of lenses which is not enough for 90% of what I do.

I wonder if the Rebel L Mount Alliance is going to drop a curve ball very shortly and announce an APSC system...?

Leica already had it’s CL and TL cameras.

Sigma is about to drop a mystery FP-L camera according to rumours.

Panasonic has been very quiet re. GH6.

So maybe...just maybe...they have secretly been working on a PDAF APSC system that would work for both videographers and photographers?

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

Well, Panasonic was working on something:

https://www.theverge.com/2021/2/18/22289331/panasonic-farting-cat-robot

[Video Hummus]

23 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Have exactly ZERO problems with the GH5S losing the mechanical shutter, and gaining an eND. 

Panasonic should release a S5S (lol) with Sony's 12MP sensor in A7SIII but without a mechanical shutter and a internal ND solution. Throw in some kind of internal RAW of some kind and it will be attractive vs A7SIII even without Sony level AF.

23 hours ago, IronFilm said:

How many people are buying the GH5S anyway for serious hard core photography usage? 

With a good telephoto it can take great pictures. But, I agree. Panasonic should make a future video centric camera more like a FX3 than the GH5S.

 

[Mark Romero 2]

On 2/17/2021 at 6:43 PM, IronFilm said:

Ouch! I used to shoot with an a5100 (over heating SUUUUUUUUCKED!

Just wait for a really cool day, and you can get a good... five or six minutes out of it before the tripod head starts melting. 

[Beritar]

14 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

Panasonic should release a S5S (lol) with Sony's 12MP sensor in A7SIII but without a mechanical shutter and a internal ND solution. Throw in some kind of internal RAW of some kind and it will be attractive vs A7SIII even without Sony level AF.

With a good telephoto it can take great pictures. But, I agree. Panasonic should make a future video centric camera more like a FX3 than the GH5S.

 

Great pictures, Pana Leica 50-200mm ?

[Video Hummus]

11 hours ago, Beritar said:

Great pictures, Pana Leica 50-200mm ?

Yes, all pictures on the PL 50-200mm (except for the dog; that one is the PL 10-25mm). PL50-200 is one of my all time favorite lenses.

[Emanuel]

MFT is my fav mount : ) Let alone the SIRUI anamorphic offer or PL diversion or any other variety from there... ;- )

[Emanuel]

I doubt any other mount will ever beat it! (E :- )

[The Fragment]

My first post here. Wanted to thank you all for keeping this site active and interesting! It's been a great source of information and inspiration for me. Hopefully, I'll also be able contribute to this avid community.

I've been using Panasonic since 2017 (G85 at first and now G9), thus the possible future release of GH6 interests me also. A lot of wishes regarding the GH6 have already been mentioned. Nevertheless, with the announcement of BMPCC 6K Pro, I remembered that one of my wishes with the advent of HDR video recording has been the availability of HDR screen on camera. I shoot all videos in HLG mode with intent to deliver the final product in both HDR (HLG and/or HDR10) and SDR. 

Therefore my wish or expectation for GH6 would also be the implementation of HDR monitor. With 500 nits being the bare minimum and 1000 nits possibly being the sweet spot. Yes, I understand that it would impact the battery life. But the prospect of being able to properly expose the HDR footage would out-weight the necessity for a spare battery, at least for me. Sure, I use HLG View Assist (mode 2 mostly) at the moment, but it's not a match for proper in-built HDR monitor. For this reason, a larger monitor (4" plus) would be a welcome addition also.

Altogether, HDR monitor together with built in ND filters (preferably up to 10 stops), internal 6K or even 8K (if the files are not a behemoth size) in future GH6 would spark my interest to consider it as a next upgrade. 

Let's see what the future brings.

[hoodlum]

While nothing specific on the GH6 other than they are still considering it, Panasonic did mention a new prime and “revolutionary” zoom are coming. My guess is that the zoom would be designed for video similar to the 10-25.  
 

https://www.43rumors.com/great-news-panasonic-says-new-revolutionary-mft-zoom-and-new-mft-fast-primes-are-in-the-works-along-the-gh6/

[SteveV4D]

10 minutes ago, hoodlum said:

While nothing specific on the GH6 other than they are still considering it, Panasonic did mention a new prime and “revolutionary” zoom are coming. My guess is that the zoom would be designed for video similar to the 10-25.  
 

https://www.43rumors.com/great-news-panasonic-says-new-revolutionary-mft-zoom-and-new-mft-fast-primes-are-in-the-works-along-the-gh6/

Still considering it is hardly any hope of anything soon or at all.  

[Jimmy G]

I remain bullish on Panasonic's camera offerings moving forward despite industry delays due to the pandemic. Their investment and commitment to organic sensor technology (hoping we'll soon see its performance abilities during this year's Olympics in Japan) and their public statement that this sensor technology will find its way into the GH line and consumer lines after that event speaks to me of exciting times ahead. (I do not expect the previously mentioned Sony sensor to find its way into a GH6, but rather, find use in a new superzoom and single-FL M43 camera to replace the FZ- and TZ-lines.)

In particular is the organic sensor being so light sensitive that we'll be having to adjust our sensibilities and processes to getting used to applying negative sensor gain rather than the current paradigm of having to add gain (better ISO performance in a GH6 than is currently found in the S-lineup, anyone?!). Also, of bonus, is the incorporation of an electronic variable-ND filter built into the sensor itself...so no worries about space constraints with the shutter box to fit in some sort of mechanical ND apparatus! And, finally, my most-requested feature, global shutter!

PanasonicDevelopsIndustry's-First*18KHigh-Resolution,High-PerformanceGlobalShutterTechnologyusingOrganic-Photoconductive-FilmCMOSImageSensor

https://news.panasonic.com/global/press/data/2018/02/en180214-2/en180214-2.pdf

Finally, a consumer-accessible true-digital-replacement for my aging Canon 1014XLS and Kodachrome film stock! (That only took nearly 50-years! Haw!) 🙂

[newfoundmass]

"Revolutionary" is a real loaded term. It gets thrown around a lot by camera companies. When thinking of what would legitimately be revolutionary I come up blank. Maybe an ENG style parfocal zoom? A telephoto partner for the 10-25mm, which I don't think would be revolutionary? I don't know. It's a very strange time for Panasonic. 

I do expect a GH6 and always have, I just don't know what form it'll take. Will it be a technological leap like previous iterations or will it be a minor (underwhelming) upgrade like most of their cameras have been for the last couple of years? I hope for the best, as I really would like to stay with M43 and Panasonic. 

[IronFilm]

On 2/27/2021 at 8:57 AM, newfoundmass said:

I do expect a GH6 and always have, I just don't know what form it'll take. Will it be a technological leap like previous iterations or will it be a minor (underwhelming) upgrade like most of their cameras have been for the last couple of years? I hope for the best, as I really would like to stay with M43 and Panasonic. 

I've noticed with the GH series Panasonic has had a tick-tock approach.
One cycle of the GH series release, is a big leap forward, then the next one after is a refinement. 

GH1 to GH2: GH2 is what put the GH series on the map.
GH2 to GH3: essentially a refined and perfected GH2. 
GH3 to GH4: big leap! 4K got added. 
GH4 to GH5: essentially a refined and perfected GH4.

Thus if the GH5 is the "refined GH4", does that mean the GH6 will deliver a big leap forward for us? Fingers crossed. 
(it does mean though if the GH6 is a big leap forward, I fully expect the GH7 to merely be "a refined/perfected GH6")

[SteveV4D]

2 hours ago, IronFilm said:

I've noticed with the GH series Panasonic has had a tick-tock approach.
One cycle of the GH series release, is a big leap forward, then the next one after is a refinement. 

GH1 to GH2: GH2 is what put the GH series on the map.
GH2 to GH3: essentially a refined and perfected GH2. 
GH3 to GH4: big leap! 4K got added. 
GH4 to GH5: essentially a refined and perfected GH4.

Thus if the GH5 is the "refined GH4", does that mean the GH6 will deliver a big leap forward for us? Fingers crossed. 
(it does mean though if the GH6 is a big leap forward, I fully expect the GH7 to merely be "a refined/perfected GH6")

I am not sure that works.  The GH5 added IBIS and 10 bit, making it a much more exciting a camera release at the time than the GH4 was back in its day.  Sure the GH4 added 4K, and it was huge, but 10 bit files is hardly a small addition.  GH3 added 60p to HD, again a huge step from the GH2.

I think each step of the GH Series has been a big step and factored in new technology, bringing new things to mirrorless camera from 1080p, to 60p 1080p, to 4K to 10 bit and IBIS.  

The GH6 would need to add something unique.  Alas 8K has already been done in fullframe, RAW with the Pocket cameras, 120fps is already covered.  What can the GH6 offer on the table to make it stand out from what is already there?  Not much.  Even internal ND has been done.   

You can't blame Panasonic if they thought that MFT had now had its day.  Technology has now caught up to make fullframe now equally beneficial.  

For the GH6 to shine in the way previous models did, it would require a leap I feel Panasonic are unable to make.  Outstanding AF coupled with internal ND, internal RAW or ProRes, minimum 120fps 4K, 30p 8K and 6K shooting modes and countless other features to give it an edge over fullframe mirrorless.  Anything less, and many will compare it to say the S5 and ask, why?

MFT was great in its day, but let's face it, even the size advanatage is hard to factor when the S5 is on a similar scale to the GH5.  What can MFT do that other cameras with larger sensors can not?  The only question to validate a GH6 release.

[Emanuel]

  

18 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

What can MFT do that other cameras with larger sensors can not?  The only question to validate a GH6 release.

Price point?

Let alone affordable glass...