Panasonic GH6

[SteveV4D]

21 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

  

Price point?

Let alone affordable glass...

Price point is at the same level as S5.  Affordable glass is worth little to Panasonic if people already own it.  Better to push for fullframe and get people to invest in new glass.  I've not bought a MFT lens in years.  Mainly as I have it all covered.  

[Emanuel]

MFT is the most affordable and versatile lens mount out there and I mean from scratch, as a filmmaking POV strictly asks for : ) Manufacturers' is not ours and vice versa ; )

FF is just not for motion whether we like it or not : ) Only for their sales.

[IronFilm]

9 hours ago, SteveV4D said:

I am not sure that works. 

Perhaps I was making a stretch of a leap, but I think I can see it if you squint. (like adding 60fps to a GH2, is a refinement to the concept rather than a big bold leap forward. Likewise the GH4 going from external 10bit to internal can also be seen as a "refinement")

Definitely the tick-tock approach is much more clearly seen with say Nikon's: D3 > D3s > D4 > D4s > D5

 

[Jimmy G]

Another wishlist item for GH6 (and future S-Series cameras) would be for "Proxy-to-SD/RAW-to-CFExpress" simultaneous recording (as already exists in the market), I'm a big stickler for no external recorders or other extraneous gear or boxes or wires or other tree-branch-snaggable doodads hanging off my camera adding weight and creating water-and-dust in-points when I'm out "bushwhacking it" for a birdie shot!

[rant] I'm PO'ed beyond words that I have to purchase and deal-with an external recorder and all of the ridiculous (aforementioned) caveats, costs and constraints to get the most video "juice" out of my 2xS1's...an extra $1k+ in gear and inconvenience, weight and hazard just to record either 10-Bit 4:2:2 60P or ProRes Raw? Really? I'll pay the extra $1K if that's what it really should cost, just put it all in the d*** camera! The folks that still need to play with all of their needed external hookups can still carry on as before! 🙂 [end of rant]

-Jim

[SteveV4D]

On 3/3/2021 at 5:09 AM, IronFilm said:

Perhaps I was making a stretch of a leap, but I think I can see it if you squint. (like adding 60fps to a GH2, is a refinement to the concept rather than a big bold leap forward. Likewise the GH4 going from external 10bit to internal can also be seen as a "refinement")

Definitely the tick-tock approach is much more clearly seen with say Nikon's: D3 > D3s > D4 > D4s > D5

 

Agreed.  If the GH6 had been released in early 2019 with 6K or even 8K, it would have carried some weight and continued the trend.  As it was, Panasonic went down a different route.  Each GH release carried something new that got people excited for MFT, but it will be hard for a GH6 to get the same level of excitement now.  Though with the S1H out there, it's no longer going to be Panasonics flagship hybrid camera, so probably won't have to be the big launch previous models were. 

If done well, it could keep the MFT line going for another 5 years.  It's whether Panasonic will want to do so, when there are advantages in encouraging current GH users to shift to their fullframe brand and spend money on a new lens system.  MFT still has its uses, and is great for light and low profile lenses, but with Olympus gone, it feels like format dying slowly from neglect.

[IronFilm]

13 hours ago, Jimmy G said:

Another wishlist item for GH6 (and future S-Series cameras) would be for "Proxy-to-SD/RAW-to-CFExpress" simultaneous recording (as already exists in the market), I'm a big stickler for no external recorders or other extraneous gear or boxes or wires or other tree-branch-snaggable doodads hanging off my camera adding weight and creating water-and-dust in-points when I'm out "bushwhacking it" for a birdie shot!

[rant] I'm PO'ed beyond words that I have to purchase and deal-with an external recorder and all of the ridiculous (aforementioned) caveats, costs and constraints to get the most video "juice" out of my 2xS1's...an extra $1k+ in gear and inconvenience, weight and hazard just to record either 10-Bit 4:2:2 60P or ProRes Raw? Really? I'll pay the extra $1K if that's what it really should cost, just put it all in the d*** camera! The folks that still need to play with all of their needed external hookups can still carry on as before! 🙂 [end of rant]

-Jim

I do agree, we need more cameras that can do both their max possible recordings and very lightweight proxy recordings internally simultaneously to two cards. 

Especially in this day and age of covid, when so much needs to be done remotely. And they might want files online ASAP to be shared, even if just for reviewing. 

It's great to just immediately email the proxies, then post the harddrive of the files themselves (or if you've got a fast enough connection, upload overnight. But that's still not getting it to them as speedy as proxies would). 

[hoodlum]

In this Nikon interview they actually mentioned a new flagship camera is coming this year with a stacked sensor.  So it looks like Sony is sharing this sensor with others now which would bode well for a new GH6.

https://www.dpreview.com/interviews/9636338352/interview-nikon-a-flagship-nikon-z-series-mirrorless-camera-can-be-expected-within-the-year

"A flagship Nikon Z-series mirrorless camera can be expected within the year, and is being developed with the goal of surpassing the D6. It will respond to the advanced needs of professionals. The upcoming model will debut a newly developed high-resolution stacked CMOS sensor."

 

[IronFilm]

8 hours ago, hoodlum said:

"A flagship Nikon Z-series mirrorless camera can be expected within the year, and is being developed with the goal of surpassing the D6. It will respond to the advanced needs of professionals. The upcoming model will debut a newly developed high-resolution stacked CMOS sensor."

The odds of a Nikon D7 ever happening just went down. 

Although I feel like there will be at least one more update to the Dx lineup before Nikon completely pulls the plug on the range. But the lifecycle of the D6 will be longer than any other Dx series camera that has gone before it. 

[newfoundmass]

I suspect something is coming, since PhotoJoseph hints at the end of this video saying the M43 story isn't over and to stay tuned. Given he's a Lumix ambassador it might mean something (or nothing) but it'd be a bit strange if he just randomly re-edited this 4 year old live stream video about M43 for the heck of it. 

 

[MrSMW]

Another Ambassador, Matti Sulanto, also said the other day, something was coming.

We shall see...

[Thpriest]

They need to get their shit together and announce something soon as I just see people drifting away from MFT (me included).

 

[Kisaha]

There are too many m43 lenses around to let the format just die..I doubt Panasonic will make more money from their full frame mount, which until now semi-fails to make a stronghold in the market.

Also, Olympus is not quite dead yet, there have been some recent releases on lenses (?) I believe and some plans for a camera release.

When the tiny sensors are OK for most people in the world (phones/, I see that there is potential for the much bigger m43 one.

A video workhorse GH-6 with less mass and weight for 1.999€ maybe is what most people need at the moment. I still see people using professionally their GH5 around.

I can see a future for m43, a pro level camera every 5 years and a new cheap model every 2and a half (and keep just 3 product lines, very cheap - 599$ new, 999$ middle level, and 1599$ - 1.999$ pro level, depending the extras such e-ND, audio ports, e.t.c).

It is a good platform and unlimited cheap lenses around.

[Thpriest]

I think the problem is there are lots of options out there and if we are honest, there has been no clear indication of when or if there will be a GH6 and whether it's worth waiting for.

If it's over 2000-2400€ and doesn't have 6K 50p, eND, good AF and lowlight then I'm nor sure what the point of m43 as a pro camera is. And I have a GH5 and GH5S and loads of lenses. Whilst it's been a great camera for me I really feel my GH5 doesn't cut it anymore on quite a few of my jobs. Mainly due to lowlight, noise and af issues. GH5S only solves lowlight problem.

[Video Hummus]

If the GH5S had good AF it would have been an insanely popular camera I think for many creators.

A GH6 with good PDAF and decent lowlight and features that rival BM Pocket cameras would be an insanely popular camera.

If they added internal ND and PDAF to anything it would be an insanely popular camera.

I would like to see it, because a GH6 with oversampled 4K, internal ND, PDAF, full vlog and one of those fast but cheap MFT primes would make a great b-camera for me and I suspect a lot of others. The total package would be small and fast to deploy 

[currensheldon]

GH6 kinda has to have some giant features to compete in a full-frame world. 
 

PDAF and internal NDs seems to be the two big ones for sure, but timecode, high frame rates in 4K and 6k, and black magic and ProRes raw would all help. 

[Thpriest]

I think the problem is timing. I think that they have possibly left it too late to keep or attract customers. With every other new release the bar gets raised as to what a GH6 must include to compete. If they can do that without raising the price then maybe there's a hope for m43. They would also need another lens to complement the 10-25 f1.7, possibly a 35-80 f1.7.

But would that all cost the same as a potential Sony A74?

What would really make people take m43 seriously? Seamless integration with their FF line? 

[MrSMW]

Too late for me now, I just pushed the button on a used S1H.

Makes more sense in regard to pairing up with an S5, - both hybrid use, but about 90% video with the S1H and about 90% stills with the S5 with the lenses being interchangeable.

I think even if Panny comes out with a GH6 later this year, for me specific requirements, it wouldn't make as much sense to use two different formats.

I'd still like to see what it could be if it ever appears though...

[barefoot_dp]

On 3/5/2021 at 2:52 AM, Jimmy G said:

[rant] I'm PO'ed beyond words that I have to purchase and deal-with an external recorder and all of the ridiculous (aforementioned) caveats, costs and constraints to get the most video "juice" out of my 2xS1's...an extra $1k+ in gear and inconvenience, weight and hazard just to record either 10-Bit 4:2:2 60P or ProRes Raw? Really? I'll pay the extra $1K if that's what it really should cost, just put it all in the d*** camera! The folks that still need to play with all of their needed external hookups can still carry on as before! 🙂 [end of rant]

 

This is why you should buy cinema cameras, not photography cameras.

Can they put those things in the cameras for an extra $1000? Yes, absolutely. But why would they when they majority of their target base won't use those features and don't care enough to pay the extra $1000.

 

On 3/19/2021 at 7:44 PM, Kisaha said:

There are too many m43 lenses around to let the format just die..I doubt Panasonic will make more money from their full frame mount, which until now semi-fails to make a stronghold in the market.

I see a lot more potential for Panasonic to sell full-frame cameras than m4/3. The Panasonic full-frame system has only been around for a couple of years - and already I'd say it's got much more of a stronghold than the m4/3 system did two years after it's introduction. Plus, with all the Youtubers pushing it so much, full-frame is now a 'must-have' for most people buying a new mirrorless these days - for both video and photography. Also there's way more Nikon F and Canon EF (not to mention FD) lenses around, but those brands have already shown a willingness to let those camera lines die (albeit a slow, withering decline).

Not to mention that the mid-tier consumer/compact camera/casual photography market that Panasonic largely aimed the m4/3 system at has completely disappeared with the rise of smartphones.

[Jimmy G]

2 minutes ago, barefoot_dp said:

This is why you should buy cinema cameras, not photography cameras.

Can they put those things in the cameras for an extra $1000? Yes, absolutely. But why would they when they majority of their target base won't use those features and don't care enough to pay the extra $1000.

Hi barefoot_dp,

Well, my primary focus is always on photography, having the ability to choose to video my subject matter (think birds, flowers, insects, etc.) in the moment at the same high quality as my RAW stills files is (has been) my desire and goal.

When I first got my hands on the Canon 5D Mark II over a decade ago I was able to finally retire my Sony VX-2000 from field use..."At long last, a one camera solution for both stills and video! Happy days!". I can't imagine any scenario where I'd ever go back to a two-camera solution for my field (Read: parks, trails, off-trail bushwhacking), um, "work" (Read: play). 😉

FWIW (as an aside), I read and post here as I share some of the same needs and desires of the run-and-gun and/or wedding/event crowds for simple and manageable and, hopefully, light-weight solutions for my nature imaging...external recorders with dangling wires and arms and brackets do not fit well with my hiking needs in changing weather. It's enough that I have an unprotected microphone sitting on top of the hot shoe.

I'm encouraged to see other company's embracing internal recording for their higher bit rate formats (like, um, RAW, but I'll be happy with 12-bit internal VLOG at all frame rates), my goal with my post was to let Panasonic know that there a users out here that are not shooting for NetFlix releases and do not want or need any external gear to accomplish our shooting goals and that they seriously need to look at what their competitors are starting to offer in these regards.

Trust me, I do look at "Cinema" cameras and sometimes drool at their output, but then reality sets in..."me on an AT side trail or at a local park with a shoulder mount", not happening. A. I no longer have the stamina of a younger man, and B. my "aging hippie" look already scares enough folks! Ha! 😄

Jim

[Emanuel]

It is just they will offer 4K 120fps and that would be a no-brainer for many for sure... ; )

BTW @wolf33d where are you, (HFR for) slowmotion man? ;- )