Panasonic GH6

[kye]

On 4/5/2021 at 12:23 AM, elgabogomez said:

Red still has the patent for compressed raw recording, atomos got a deal with them and was able to have the prores raw, canon got a deal with them and is able to have canon raw lite. Blackmagic created Braw to avoid a Red lawsuit and is in the clear. Everyone else can’t have internal compressed raw on any camera.

Now s1h can send out the hdmi signal for compressed raw to two different formats, so no, I don’t think internal raw is coming to any Panasonic camera any time soon.

They should just make a battery grip that contains an M2 SSD slot that automagically connects to the camera and records the compressed raw on that - bingo..  "external" raw.

Or licence Prores from Apple and offer those options.  

....or just make it possible to select whatever bitrate and bit depth you want and turn off sharpening, that would do it for me.  

[Video Hummus]

On 4/6/2021 at 9:25 AM, kye said:

They should just make a battery grip that contains an M2 SSD slot that automagically connects to the camera and records the compressed raw on that - bingo..  "external" raw.

Or licence Prores from Apple and offer those options.  

....or just make it possible to select whatever bitrate and bit depth you want and turn off sharpening, that would do it for me.  

I think there is also the issue of "how" the RAW data is compressed not just the insanely broad "all RAW from camera compressed higher than 3:1" belongs to RED.

Canon clearly has some kind of deal with RED when there is CRAW Light 8:1 in Hybrid DSLM R5. This, and the fact they fit internal NDs in RF mount flange, makes me incredible excited for future camera generations from Canon.

So I find it doubtful we will see RAW in GH6. I would be really surprised. I think they should do what Sigma did and just offer uncompressed 10-bit and 12-bit RAW and develop that external storage grip solution you are proposing and have the huge file sizes countered with cheap M.2 SSD media recording.

It has been forever since we heard even a whisper of a rumor about hybrid GH cameras. They are either entirely reworking the model line or they are going to kill it and focus on S series FF cameras.

[Mark Romero 2]

20 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

It has been forever since we heard even a whisper of a rumor about hybrid GH cameras. They are either entirely reworking the model line or they are going to kill it and focus on S series FF cameras.

Well... the GH5 is still a very viable camera. It's kind of hard to see where they are going to go from here without some serious redesign, on their part and on Sony's part (since I believe that Panasonic is still dependent on Sony sensors for their cameras).

Is there an m43 sensor out that allows for 4K 120fps readout speeds? If so, is it cost prohibitive?

How about dual gain optimized tech, like the sensor in the Canon C70? That could give m43 sensors another stop or two of dynamic range. 

And everyone would love improved autofocus. But would the current m43 lenses be capable of exploiting a new autofocus system if it were released in a GH6? Maybe there are design limitations in the current lenses that prevent them from benefiting from phase-detect AF.

And since a full frame Panasonic S5 sells for less than $2000 now (maybe just a temporary sale price), at what price can Panasonic sell a whole lot of GH6 cameras at?

Anyway, I don't know. Now sure what Panasonic will do. Although I get the feeling they will do SOMETHING interesting.

[IronFilm]

16 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Is there an m43 sensor out that allows for 4K 120fps readout speeds? If so, is it cost prohibitive?

 

The GH5S sensor could already do that speed. 

In fact the Z Cam E2-M4 ("same" sensor) does 4K 160fps 10bit internal!

[majoraxis]

10 hours ago, IronFilm said:

The GH5S sensor could already do that speed. 

In fact the Z Cam E2-M4 ("same" sensor) does 4K 160fps 10bit internal!

There are only a few things the would make the Z Cam closer to the perfect Micro 4/3 cinema camera.

1. SDI output (and/or less lag on the HDMI output) (like the Red Komodo)

2. Better internal RAW like BRAW. (like Blackmagic Products)

3. On chip electronic variable ND filter as you have to use an EF mount if you want variable ND (Like FS5 etc electronic variable ND filter)

4. Mini XLR's rather than Lemo 5-pin. (like the Pocket 6k Pro) (this is not that big of a deal but would make the audio capabilities more obvious)

5. Larger touch screen display (like the Red Komodo) (Can be controlled for an external monitor or wifi app which works fine)

6. Higher resolution sensor when available.

I hope the GH6 will get some of the above and still have in camera image stabilization and hopefully 8k 16:9 internal recording capabilities...

[IronFilm]

13 hours ago, majoraxis said:

There are only a few things the would make the Z Cam closer to the perfect Micro 4/3 cinema camera.

1. SDI output (and/or less lag on the HDMI output) (like the Red Komodo)

2. Better internal RAW like BRAW. (like Blackmagic Products)

3. On chip electronic variable ND filter as you have to use an EF mount if you want variable ND (Like FS5 etc electronic variable ND filter)

4. Mini XLR's rather than Lemo 5-pin. (like the Pocket 6k Pro) (this is not that big of a deal but would make the audio capabilities more obvious)

5. Larger touch screen display (like the Red Komodo) (Can be controlled for an external monitor or wifi app which works fine)

6. Higher resolution sensor when available.

I feel perhaps 1 to 4 is only another generation away, perhaps? (a Z Cam E3-M4??)

5. they've already got a touch screen display option
6. 4K I reckon is plenty:

 

[majoraxis]

I agree for most people true 4k resolution is more than enough resolution, unless you are doing signal camera multi-cam edit and delivering 4k, then you would want more resolution to start with to pan and scan inside of...

[Robb]

Well? anyone catch the Lumix live stream this morning?

- GH5 ii (meh, some updates to the GH5 basically)

- GH6: didn't reveal much but dangled enough for me! Confirmed release for this year, 4k 120 4:2:2 internal 10bit as well as 5.7k 60p! Also with the announcement of the Pro Res Raw via Ninja V for the GH5s, can only assume something similar or even better will be offered on the GH6.

Personally I'm glad they didn't try to chase the "K's" too much and go for 8k. I think 5.7k will be a perfect resolution for low light performance as well as reframing if you want. I like what I hear so far! All new sensor and new neural engine.

[kye]

Courtesy of Panasonic.com

https://www.panasonic.com/global/consumer/lumix/g/gh6.html?fbclid=IwAR0WjdgqpEcUl__FSRVUzNYceDUJT4jBZeOmAyOr4ib8Oc0nZ3lXKUuG0s8

Quote

Release Date 2021/12/16

LUMIX GH6 Mirrorless Camera Updated Availability

As an update to the initial May 2021 press release, Panasonic would like to share that the availability of the highly anticipated LUMIX GH6 will take place in early 2022. This revision is based on Panasonic’s commitment to empowering users with the highest achievable level of innovation with every release.

Seemed this slipped by without much fuss, but it looks like they're still on the case despite pandemic and chip shortages.  If things weren't going well then I doubt they'd publish an update at all...

[buggz]

Anyone got insight to the rumors of Panasonic leaving the cinema business ?

 

[billdoubleu]

8 minutes ago, buggz said:

Anyone got insight to the rumors of Panasonic leaving the cinema business ?

 

I have no specific knowledge other than it makes sense. They're pulling from the same playbook as Olympus. The only new products they're sending out are a repackaging of their old technology. How long can one new camera (GH6) carry you as a business? I love VariCam but Arri is too sexy for productions to resist. Blackmagic is too attractive to smaller productions due to the super low cost, great image, and streamlined ecosystem. If Panasonic made the bold move with the EVA1 to strap an MFT mount to the front, they no doubt would've had more success with it. No guts no glory.

Camera technology is seemingly a very difficult space to innovate in currently. The only companies making headway seem to be cell phone manufacturers who are willing and able to throw a mass of resources at the problem. Not to mention those companies also peddle in data mining, so, it only behoves them to keep that technology updated and exciting and in the best position to learn who you are as a consumer.

[PannySVHS]

Sdi, timecode, internal nds,  a Super35 sensor with full VLog and Varicam color, an Oplf filter plus the announced specs, all that in a robust body with the outstanding battery life of the Lumix GH series! Percect dream (camera:).

The Gh4 could be coupled with a sdi and xlr extension. Why not offer something like that for the Gh6, just (much) smaller with a much more elegant power solution.

[buggz]

It's been soo long since I've used my good ol' GH5.

But, as I vaguley remeber, you could not check focus during live recording?

Zooming in, etc..

If this was/is still true, this would be a total failure for me.

[kye]

9 hours ago, buggz said:

It's been soo long since I've used my good ol' GH5.

But, as I vaguley remeber, you could not check focus during live recording?

Zooming in, etc..

If this was/is still true, this would be a total failure for me.

I'm not aware of any way to check focus while recording, and the GH5 is my main camera.  If you used an external monitor then it would be a standard feature on all those I'd imagine, although if it was an external recorder then you'd have to look at the functionality of that device.

It's really dependent on how you shoot.

In terms of the GH6, who knows.  The precedent set by the GH3,4, and 5 was that it leapfrogged the competition and really stood out.  I'm not really sure how the GH6 could do that against the current crop of cameras, but maybe they'll pull a rabbit out of their hat.

[sanveer]

I sometimes feel that the GH5 was was 90% already there, and only a few minor improvement would keep it relevant for another half decade.

5.7k should have been complete 6k, at 60p.

4k at 120fps.

Dynamic Range improvements.

Usable video ISO 6400

PDAF comparable to that on Sony and Canon cameras 

Having much better AR coating across all lenses and on the sensor, should help improve dynamic range.

Full Vlog

Make it a Netflix Certified Camera 😎

One last, extra, would be to work with Topaz Labs to have upressing to 8k video and Photos at 40-60MP, purely by software upressing. This should make to compare to the 8k Cameras and the 50+MP Cameras. 

[kye]

3 minutes ago, sanveer said:

I sometimes feel that the GH5 was was 90% already there, and only a few minor improvement would keep it relevant for another half decade.

5.7k should have been complete 6k, at 60p.

4k at 120fps.

Dynamic Range improvements.

Usable video ISO 6400

PDAF comparable to that on Sony and Canon cameras 

Having much better AR coating across all lenses and on the sensor, should help improve dynamic range.

Full Vlog

Make it a Netflix Certified Camera 😎

One last, extra, would be to work with Topaz Labs to have upressing to 8k video and Photos at 40-60MP, purely by software upressing. This should make to compare to the 8k Cameras and the 50+MP Cameras. 

I think there are really two paths forward, the addition of mind-bending specs or just doing a solid upgrade and rounding out the whole package.  The A7S3 did the latter - it didn't up the resolution or any major features but just became a better all-around package.  I'd be happy with a GH6 that was a GH5 with the weaknesses remedied.  The GH5 was a workhorse with some weaknesses so I guess we'll see.

[sanveer]

3 hours ago, kye said:

I think there are really two paths forward, the addition of mind-bending specs or just doing a solid upgrade and rounding out the whole package.  The A7S3 did the latter - it didn't up the resolution or any major features but just became a better all-around package.  I'd be happy with a GH6 that was a GH5 with the weaknesses remedied.  The GH5 was a workhorse with some weaknesses so I guess we'll see.

The GH6 is such a minor upgrade in most ways, that, it's 'a GH5 with the weaknesses remedied'. That's good enough, even if solely improves dynamic range and Autofocus.

[buggz]

Oh, hope they fixed the external HDMI lag also...

[kye]

6 hours ago, sanveer said:

The GH6 is such a minor upgrade in most ways, that, it's 'a GH5 with the weaknesses remedied'. That's good enough, even if solely improves dynamic range and Autofocus.

Well, we don't know that yet.  

For all we know they could have developed some killer sensor in secret and it might have just kept the 5K resolution from the GH5 but have 5k500, 4k750 and 2k1200 fps or something.  

It might have a Dual Gain (not dual ISO) architecture like the Alexa sensor and output 14-bit LOG with huge dynamic range.

It might pull some other rabbit from the hat.  Who knows.  MFT certainly isn't suited to the resolution race due to the pixel size required, so maybe they'll go huge in some other way?

[sanveer]

11 hours ago, kye said:

it might have just kept the 5K resolution from the GH5 but have 5k500, 4k750 and 2k1200 fps or something.  

🤣 Unlikely. 

 

11 hours ago, kye said:

It might have a Dual Gain (not dual ISO) architecture like the Alexa sensor and output 14-bit LOG with huge dynamic range.

Not likely either. Which is sad, cause Samsung and Sony both presented papers on Triple Gain sensors (for smaller sensors, I guess), and if Panasonic wanted they could have made the most of the tech, for a M43 sensors. 

 

11 hours ago, kye said:

It might pull some other rabbit from the hat.  Who knows.  MFT certainly isn't suited to the resolution race due to the pixel size required, so maybe they'll go huge in some other way?

I thought it was established that the resolution advantage is mostly blurred after a certain point, and better noise, lenses etc mostly blur the lines. Steve Yedlin's and hundreds of other presentation on resolution go into the exaggerated claims and why after a point why it doesn't matter.

Arri's discussion on it seems quite interesting. 

https://www.newsshooter.com/2015/08/14/arri-managing-director-franz-kraus-talks-about-resolution-hdr-and-the-arri-65/

 

Mist interesting of all, Sony presented its stacked CMOS image sensor technology with 2-Layer Transistor Pixel, widening Dynamic Range and Reduces Noise by approximately Doubling Saturation Signal Level (since surface area isn't being wasted, because the photo diode pixel transistor are in the same level (so only 50% area is used for the photo diode). Theoretically this should sensor at the same pixel seem much better in detail and dynamic range. The question would be, by how much. 

https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/e/news/2021/2021121601.html

 

More than anything else I am curious why nobody feels the Blackmagic 12k Camera No Crop Resolutions is a big deal. Especially for its price point, shooting 12k at 60p  8k and 4k at 120fps, Without Cropping or Changing Your Field of View.

 

Wonder why nobody seems to have gone that path.