Panasonic GH6

[webrunner5]

2 hours ago, kye said:

I think that the specs game is like any other social media bubble where once you're in it everyone seems to be talking about it and you lose perspective.  I've been concentrating on editing more recently as that's my overall weakness as a film-maker, and the more I look at editing the more I think I could shoot really great travel films with a half-decent P&S.  The things that make the award winning shows great is the overall content and storytelling and sound design etc.  If DoF was really the defining feature then Army of the Dead would be an Oscar Winner, but actually, no.....

 

For what you shoot a Sony RX10 MK II would be the ticket. Probably be the best camera for the majority of people on here not making a living doing video or photography. Heck a newer Smartphone gets the job done anymore.,

[webrunner5]

With the new 4x up rez software that is in Photoshop and Lightroom have now it is a game changer. Even my 12mp Sony a7s II is great now for wildlife stuff, birding, etc. So you don't need 50mp cameras anymore. There is a lot to be said in a all-in-one camera like the RX10 or the Panasonic FZ1000 to just grab and go and you have all you need. So you can now use them for all kinds of work photo wise.

How good of stuff do you really need to use for YouTube, Facebook, home movie stuff? Sure everyone wants an Arri but.. I like Sony A7s cameras because it opens up the ability to shoot stuff at times of the day you would never think of. You can get shots, videos that are really unique. Nighttime stuff is so different from the norm. It is kind of scary to look at but you can't not look. You take advantage of blacks that you try to avoid in daylight. Sunsets and sunrises are just crazy beautiful. Foggy nights and mornings, wow great stuff. Justy easy to do with a Sony A7s.

[kye]

2 hours ago, hyalinejim said:

Is it not f2 MFT = f2.8 S35mm DOF?

OOPS!  Yes indeed! lol.  So used to comparing everything to FF 😂😂😂

F2 lenses are even easier to get than F1.4 lenses, so there really are lots of great options around.

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

For what you shoot a Sony RX10 MK II would be the ticket. Probably be the best camera for the majority of people on here not making a living doing video or photography. Heck a newer Smartphone gets the job done anymore.,

It's not ideal, but it could get the job done.  

If I was literally limited to a P&S then I'd try and get one with nicer video and nicer low-light (real-life happens after the sun goes down) so maybe an RX100 might be a good fit.  Having a super-zoom is nice, but a 24-70 would cover the vast majority of situations - there's a reason that the kit lens is that coverage.

Smartphones now with their 2 cameras are almost the same focal lengths that I like to shoot with in manual primes..  ~16mm 35mm and 85mm FF equivalent focal lengths.  Being able to shoot Prores on a phone might give it a real boost and not look thin and over sharpened.

47 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

With the new 4x up rez software that is in Photoshop and Lightroom have now it is a game changer. Even my 12mp Sony a7s II is great now for wildlife stuff, birding, etc. So you don't need 50mp cameras anymore. There is a lot to be said in a all-in-one camera like the RX10 or the Panasonic FZ1000 to just grab and go and you have all you need. So you can now use them for all kinds of work photo wise.

How good of stuff do you really need to use for YouTube, Facebook, home movie stuff? Sure everyone wants an Arri but.. I like Sony A7s cameras because it opens up the ability to shoot stuff at times of the day you would never think of. You can get shots, videos that are really unique. Nighttime stuff is so different from the norm. It is kind of scary to look at but you can't not look. You take advantage of blacks that you try to avoid in daylight. Sunsets and sunrises are just crazy beautiful. Foggy nights and mornings, wow great stuff. Justy easy to do with a Sony A7s.

It all depends what you're trying to do.  I had a FB "disagreement" the other day with a guy that said that amateurs don't have requirements, only pros have requirements, and amateurs only have preferences.  In a sense there's no minimum standard for amateurs, but also no absolute minimum standard for pros either, unless you're shooting for Netflix or commercial TV where there are standards to hit (for better or worse).  

However, having said all that, amateurs only have whatever standards they set for themselves, and my minimum standard is to capture images rather than not capture them, but I'm interested in getting the best image I can so there's no way I'm going to accept a 90's miniDV handicam when I can have a mirrorless for only a few thousand!

[webrunner5]

31 minutes ago, kye said:

However, having said all that, amateurs only have whatever standards they set for themselves, and my minimum standard is to capture images rather than not capture them, but I'm interested in getting the best image I can so there's no way I'm going to accept a 90's miniDV handicam when I can have a mirrorless for only a few thousand!

It is Not a few thousand. You have to buy 3 to 4 lenses, ND filters, on and on. The RX10 is ready to go. And a RX10 uses the same sensor as a RX100 has. And not cheap ass kit lenses.

[webrunner5]

Looks pretty nice.

[92F]

23 hours ago, Emanuel said:

There's no competitor nor will there ever be for P4K... :- )

It's your opinion... but it's obvious that he is very close to him with his internal Prores and his bad AF...
So the target is more documentary and fiction  and is less reportage. Who is going to film reportage in ProRes !?!

When you put an external battery, an external SSD you will understand the comparison...

Sell your P4K and try a GH6 ? 

[hyalinejim]

On 2/24/2022 at 1:26 AM, kye said:

So, if CineD tested at ISO800 and 250 is the native ISO, it'll have more DR than their test found?

Even better!

They re-tested at ISO 250 and found an additional 0.2 stops, using their "conservative" rating (how much noise you're willing to live with. Using these criteria the Alexa, for example, is rated at 14 stops)

So 9.4 stops at base ISO and 11 with DR Boost for GH6. 

[TomTheDP]

8 minutes ago, hyalinejim said:

They re-tested at ISO 250 and found an additional 0.2 stops, using their "conservative" rating (how much noise you're willing to live with. Using these criteria the Alexa, for example, is rated at 14 stops)

So 9.4 stops at base ISO and 11 with DR Boost for GH6. 

From CVP's over under testing the GH6 clearly does better then the GH5 and GH5S. The S1 and S1H also quickly get really bad horizontal banding when underexposed. To me those dynamic range numbers are kind of meaningless.

[hyalinejim]

43 minutes ago, TomTheDP said:

CVP's over under testing

Yes, so it looks like in DR Boost mode the GH6 can't match the S series cameras in the highlights (as you would expect from looking at Panasonic's VLog graph a few pages back) but the shadows are completely free from that awful horizontal banding which I was surprised to see on the S cameras. And the GH6 does amazingly well in colour fidelity underexposed (again in Boost)

From this test I think I'd be comfortable underexposing the GH6 in Boost mode by one stop to give an extra stop in the highlights when the scene requires it.

[Mmmbeats]

2 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

From CVP's over under testing the GH6 clearly does better then the GH5 and GH5S. The S1 and S1H also quickly get really bad horizontal banding when underexposed. To me those dynamic range numbers are kind of meaningless.

I see that with the DR Boost enabled, but not without, which seems to validate CineD.

2 hours ago, hyalinejim said:

Yes, so it looks like in DR Boost mode the GH6 can't match the S series cameras in the highlights (as you would expect from looking at Panasonic's VLog graph a few pages back) but the shadows are completely free from that awful horizontal banding which I was surprised to see on the S cameras. And the GH6 does amazingly well in colour fidelity underexposed (again in Boost)

From this test I think I'd be comfortable underexposing the GH6 in Boost mode by one stop to give an extra stop in the highlights when the scene requires it.

Underexposing is going to be tricky at ISO 2000.

[hyalinejim]

10 minutes ago, Mmmbeats said:

Underexposing is going to be tricky at ISO 2000.

As is normal exposure in daylight! I don't really fancy the idea of stacking NDs just to get an exposure (my variable ND is 6 stop maximum and I calculate that you'd need 10 stops ND to shoot f2.8 1/50s ISO 2000 in bright daylight). Aside from reflections etc it makes changing lenses a pain.

A three or four stop internal ND would be so useful in this case 

[Mmmbeats]

6 minutes ago, hyalinejim said:

As is normal exposure in daylight! I don't really fancy the idea of stacking NDs just to get an exposure (my variable ND is 6 stop maximum and I calculate that you'd need 10 stops ND to shoot f2.8 1/50s ISO 2000 in bright daylight). Aside from reflections etc it makes changing lenses a pain.

A three or four stop internal ND would be so useful in this case 

Well quite.  To use this camera I think you're going to need to buy a big stopper photographers ND filter because variable ND usually looks awful at high levels. 

[projectwoofer]

2 hours ago, hyalinejim said:

Yes, so it looks like in DR Boost mode the GH6 can't match the S series cameras in the highlights (as you would expect from looking at Panasonic's VLog graph a few pages back) but the shadows are completely free from that awful horizontal banding which I was surprised to see on the S cameras. And the GH6 does amazingly well in colour fidelity underexposed (again in Boost)

From this test I think I'd be comfortable underexposing the GH6 in Boost mode by one stop to give an extra stop in the highlights when the scene requires it.

Has anyone any stills to show from that "horizontal banding" in the S-Series cameras that I've never encountered after 1 year of shooting with the S5? Genuinely curious...

[MrSMW]

56 minutes ago, Mmmbeats said:

Underexposing is going to be tricky at ISO 2000.

Shooting video at f22 is gonna be a thing.

Yup, that shallow DOF is sooooooo 2021.

[Mmmbeats]

2 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

Shooting video at f22 is gonna be a thing.

Yup, that shallow DOF is sooooooo 2021.

Yes, perhaps this camera will set a trend!  Personally I like to choose my f-stop, but still...

[Mmmbeats]

1 hour ago, hyalinejim said:

As is normal exposure in daylight! I don't really fancy the idea of stacking NDs just to get an exposure (my variable ND is 6 stop maximum and I calculate that you'd need 10 stops ND to shoot f2.8 1/50s ISO 2000 in bright daylight). Aside from reflections etc it makes changing lenses a pain.

A three or four stop internal ND would be so useful in this case 

I have to admit I lose track of how much ND I'm actually using with my (up to 8 stops) variable ND.  It's around 4 stops back down to ISO 125 from ISO 2000.  How much more would you say is required to protect highlights in the scenario you describe?  A further 6 stops?  I'm finding it hard to be sure.

[Emanuel]

7 hours ago, 92F said:

It's your opinion... but it's obvious that he is very close to him with his internal Prores and his bad AF...
So the target is more documentary and fiction  and is less reportage. Who is going to film reportage in ProRes !?!

When you put an external battery, an external SSD you will understand the comparison...

Sell your P4K and try a GH6 ? 

Horses for courses. One doesn't replace the other... But there are ones less than others and vice versa, hence my comment. What's the problem of external stuff attached to? I use my P4K as any other PROfessional device BTW. I have had them since GH1 and I wouldn't sell my P4K for any one of those. No matter how much I love them... Really :- )

[hyalinejim]

3 hours ago, Mmmbeats said:

How much more would you say is required to protect highlights in the scenario you describe

I'm basing it on Sunny 16: f16, 1/100s, ISO 100 then counting the stops to f2.8, 1/50s, ISO 2000

It's 10.33 😭

[hyalinejim]

4 hours ago, projectwoofer said:

Has anyone any stills to show from that "horizontal banding" in the S-Series cameras that I've never encountered

[MurtlandPhoto]

On 2/23/2022 at 10:48 AM, webrunner5 said:

I think the GH6 is a camera too late. Most people have moved on from M4/3. I guess if you are big into Anamorphic I can see buying it but ProRes and Raw, all of that is already in a lot of FF stuff now.

And hardly anyone uses big long lenses for video work. Mostly wide angle stuff. So that is off the table.

I'm inclined to agree with you. I think Patrick Tomasso said it best in his review (I've watched too many reviews to keep track)... essentially the GH5 was an absolute powerhouse because it could do things no other system could really do at the time. Now things have changed and full frame has caught up and surpassed in all the ways that matter to most shooters.