Panasonic GH6

[Mark Romero 2]

14 minutes ago, kye said:

In terms of ISO2000 compared to 800 (wasn't 800 the native ISO for Vlog on the GH5?) isn't it only slightly more than a stop more exposed?  If so, you only need to add a single-stop of ND to your setup and it's the same.  Or am I missing something?

I'm not sure what it is on the GH5. On the S1 / S5, V-LOG native ISO is 640.

But your point is well made. It is technically only a stop and 1/3rd (or 2/3rds) more.

Normally I shoot with a three-stop ND filter on the S5 during the daytime, but I am usually shooting at around f/8 to f/11. So I think mostly for my shooting I would end up around f/4 on m43. 

So maybe around five or six stops of ND would be what I am used to.

[newfoundmass]

10 hours ago, Rob6 said:

What lenses do you guys recommend for the gh6? What are your favorites for the micro 4/3 system. Looking at getting one for a b or c camera for video at events. Thanks!

Also why can't they have it record in prores on the cfexpress and then some other format on the sd card like h.265. The R5 does something like there were it can write raw to the cfexpress and lower quality h.265 to the sd card...

Depends on what you prefer, zooms or primes? If you're looking to get the best stabilization you'll probably want to stick with Panasonic lenses, though I prefer Olympus lenses myself (even though I only own 1.)

The 12-35mm f2.8 and the 35-100mm f2.8 are both decent. Their Olympus counterparts are better, but you lose dual IS with them. They're not that different, they just feel better built, are a bit sharper, and have the manual focus clutch. I own the 7-14mm f2.8 since the Panasonic equivalent is only an f4. It is such a nice, premium feeling lens. But I own 2 of the 12-35mm and 1 of the 35-100mm Panasonic and I'm happy with them. 

For primes the 25mm f1.7 is a great value, the 42.5mm f1.7 is an excellent portrait/interview lens, and the 15mm f1.7 is also excellent. I have almost all the primes myself, but those are arguably the best bang for your buck as far as Panny is concerned. They have some really nice f1.2 and 1.4 but they're quite pricey. I've heard great things about the Sigma primes too. 

[webrunner5]

2 hours ago, kye said:

I don't have any experience with those power zoom lenses, but one feature that I think would be of huge benefit from them is the ability to hold down the zoom rocker just a bit and do a smooth zoom during a shot.

The more serious MFT lenses are nice, but I'm not sure that the manual zoom ring is damped and smooth enough to really pull off a flawless zoom during a shot, certainly my second-hand 12-35mm and kit 14-42mm zooms aren't.

That was a thing that those ENG lenses were really good at weren't they?

 

Yeah ENG lens servos are pretty unbelievable to use and you can set the speed to slow or fast on them so the harder you push the faster they go and vice versa. Super smooth operation once you get used to using them. I usually used a 12x or 15x, but we had up to 20x ones for the sports guys.  

I meant to say Power IOS lenses versus the older Mega IOS lenses. I used the later 14-140mm Power IOS and the 12-60mm Power IOS on my GH5. You could try and shake the camera and it would still seem to be locked on the subject, it was just amazing how well they worked together, and the GH6 is supposed to be even better!

 

[Jimmy G]

8 hours ago, kye said:

I'll be curious to see what the math is like for shooting at, say, f0.95 in bright sun, at ISO2000 for high DR mode, and what that equates to in an exposure time.

The kind folks at CineD report (from their testing) that the two base ISOs for the GH6 are 250 and 2000. The difference between those values is, conveniently (i.e. no fractions), 3-stops (250>500>1000>2000). So I would think the easiest field practice would be to dial in one's exposure settings at ISO 250, slap on a 3-stop ND, and up the ISO to 2000 to put the camera in wide dynamic range mode. No math worries there. 🙂

Of course, a camera using Panasonic's own organic sensor with its reported built-in voltage-controlled variable-ND that maybe-will automatically-compensate the internal-ND for ISO-changes to maintain-EV-settings would be super...but >cough< they decided not to put that sensor in this camera. 😉 Maybe they're planning something "truly big" for the Lumix 30th anniversary in 2031?! Ha!

[kye]

26 minutes ago, Jimmy G said:

The kind folks at CineD report (from their testing) that the two base ISOs for the GH6 are 250 and 2000. The difference between those values is, conveniently (i.e. no fractions), 3-stops (250>500>1000>2000). So I would think the easiest field practice would be to dial in one's exposure settings at ISO 250, slap on a 3-stop ND, and up the ISO to 2000 to put the camera in wide dynamic range mode. No math worries there. 🙂

Of course, a camera using Panasonic's own organic sensor with its reported built-in voltage-controlled variable-ND that maybe-will automatically-compensate the internal-ND for ISO-changes to maintain-EV-settings would be super...but >cough< they decided not to put that sensor in this camera. 😉 Maybe they're planning something "truly big" for the Lumix 30th anniversary in 2031?! Ha!

This is where I get confused - there are actually 4 base-ISO settings aren't there?

V-Log with DR boost and without, and non-V-Log profiles with DR boost and without.  I thought that the ISO 250 was the Base ISO for non-Vlog profiles, and the 2000 was for V-Log and DR boost?

The reason I raise that is that if you're talking about NDs, then people will be setup to expose with whatever profile they were using before, so V-Log GH5 -> V-Log GH6 DR boost.  Very few people are going to have NDs for GH5 normal profiles and want to move to V-Log DR boost on the GH6 (and if they do then getting new NDs isn't unreasonable).

Pity about the eND...  it's basically the only thing that will get me to shoot manual mode rather than aperture priority, and I'd like to, but having to manually fuss with NDs is one step too far for me.

[webrunner5]

In the daytime, outdoors you really don't need to change ND settings very often unless you are in a forest coming to the beach! And with high end Cine cameras and ENG cameras you have had to Always fuss with NDs.

They are the best thing that ever happened. You Have to have them to maintain a constant shutter speed, ergo shutter angle. Changing aperture all over the place is not very desirable in video.

[webrunner5]

But I will add with the advent of Run N Gun, or in layman's terms just walking around for a long time filming changing NDs would look pretty goofy compared to changing aperture.  Using variable NDs sort of only works when you are setting up a shot and then you stop to set up another when conditions change.

It looks pretty lame to see a filter wheel turning during a shot! 😬 I still usually shoot in very short bursts then relocate. Lots of editing that way lol.

[mercer]

The dynamic range boost mode is ISO 800+ in CineLikeD, right?

[Sharathc47]

Patent of electronic nd filter is expired in january 2022 (patent holder- Forza silicon)

Can we see more cinema cameras with electronic nd filter in the future?🤷‍♂️

[hyalinejim]

14 hours ago, kye said:

I thought that the ISO 250 was the Base ISO for non-Vlog profiles

From official specs it looks like 100 is base ISO for regular profiles:

[Normal]
Dynamic Range Boost OFF (Base ISO 100): Auto / 50 (Extended ISO) / 100-12800
Dynamic Range Boost ON (Creative Video Mode) (Base ISO 800): Auto / 800-12800

[V-Log]
Dynamic Range Boost OFF (Base ISO 250): Auto / 125 (Extended ISO) / 250-12800
Dynamic Range Boost ON (Creative Video Mode) (Base ISO 2000): Auto / 2000-12800

[Hybrid Log Gamma]
Dynamic Range Boost OFF (Base ISO 250): Auto / 250-12800
Dynamic Range Boost ON (Creative Video Mode) (Base ISO 2000): Auto / 2000-12800
 

[hyalinejim]

Anyone found any good Vari NDs that can handle 10+ stops? I use an SLR Magic on GH5. It maxes out at 6 but doesn't introduce any significant colour shifts that I've noticed. 

I'm also wondering about 1080p land, as that's where I'm very happy.

1. Will 1080p be as artifact free (moire, aliasing, softness) as GH5 is?

2. Will we be able to do some sweet EX Tele in 1080p? This is a godsend for run and gun or events. No need to change lens (and ND filter!). Hypothetically we should be able to get to 2x downsampled centre crop of 4k. This means I could live with one speedboosted 24-70 f2.8 lens on the camera for 95% of the time (effective equivalent range of 30 to 180mm with a 0.64x booster)

[kye]

2 hours ago, hyalinejim said:

From official specs it looks like 100 is base ISO for regular profiles:

[Normal]
Dynamic Range Boost OFF (Base ISO 100): Auto / 50 (Extended ISO) / 100-12800
Dynamic Range Boost ON (Creative Video Mode) (Base ISO 800): Auto / 800-12800

[V-Log]
Dynamic Range Boost OFF (Base ISO 250): Auto / 125 (Extended ISO) / 250-12800
Dynamic Range Boost ON (Creative Video Mode) (Base ISO 2000): Auto / 2000-12800

[Hybrid Log Gamma]
Dynamic Range Boost OFF (Base ISO 250): Auto / 250-12800
Dynamic Range Boost ON (Creative Video Mode) (Base ISO 2000): Auto / 2000-12800
 

Makes sense.

That means that 3 extra stops of ND are required between modes, but would someone really be swapping between them?

Most likely someone would already own a different camera and have the NDs setup for that, so it would be dependent on the ISO they currently shoot in, wouldn't it?

2 hours ago, hyalinejim said:

Anyone found any good Vari NDs that can handle 10+ stops? I use an SLR Magic on GH5. It maxes out at 6 but doesn't introduce any significant colour shifts that I've noticed. 

I'm also wondering about 1080p land, as that's where I'm very happy.

1. Will 1080p be as artifact free (moire, aliasing, softness) as GH5 is?

2. Will we be able to do some sweet EX Tele in 1080p? This is a godsend for run and gun or events. No need to change lens (and ND filter!). Hypothetically we should be able to get to 2x downsampled centre crop of 4k. This means I could live with one speedboosted 24-70 f2.8 lens on the camera for 95% of the time (effective equivalent range of 30 to 180mm with a 0.64x booster)

You're the first other person I know that shoots 1080p and uses the 2x digital zoom to get a downsampled 1080p from the ~2.5K middle part of the sensor.  The quality is so nice and the 2X is so handy that my lens collection has evolved to make full utilisation of those, by having a 17.5mm as my default lens which gives a 35mm FFE FOV and a 70mm FFE FOV from the same lens with just a button press.

[PannySVHS]

6 hours ago, kye said:

You're the first other person I know that shoots 1080p and uses the 2x digital zoom to get a downsampled 1080p from the ~2.5K middle part of the sensor.  The quality is so nice and the 2X is so handy that my lens collection has evolved to make full utilisation of those, by having a 17.5mm as my default lens which gives a 35mm FFE FOV and a 70mm FFE FOV from the same lens with just a button press.

The 2x digital zoom is something I am really missing on my Lumix S1. There is only Full Sensor readout and then two crops for APS-C and a pixel to pixel readout. Last one is for HD only of course. 2x digital HD with potential for downsampling from 3k would have been pretty sweet, also for 4 to 3 formats. 2x crop works for my humble GX85 both in 16 to 9, 1 to 1 and 4 to 3 aspect ratios, latter two in 4K photomode. But none of that is in the S1. Menues are overkill too, despite missing this dear feature.

Hope the GH6 has a menu structure rather like the GH5 but I doubt that

Perfect HD, that´s also something the GH5 stands for and kye has been promoting a great deal. Something I really loved about the GH5 when using it.

[projectwoofer]

There’s a way to get downsampled FHD on the S series by using the live cropping mode but set the cropping to the full sensor. It’s only FF 30fps or APS-C 60fps though. Still, much better FHD quality than the regular FHD modes.

[projectwoofer]

And of course it’s limited to 40sec per clip. For short bursts though it might be useful.

[webrunner5]

12 hours ago, hyalinejim said:

Anyone found any good Vari NDs that can handle 10+ stops? I use an SLR Magic on GH5. It maxes out at 6 but doesn't introduce any significant colour shifts that I've noticed. 

I'm also wondering about 1080p land, as that's where I'm very happy.

1. Will 1080p be as artifact free (moire, aliasing, softness) as GH5 is?

2. Will we be able to do some sweet EX Tele in 1080p? This is a godsend for run and gun or events. No need to change lens (and ND filter!). Hypothetically we should be able to get to 2x downsampled centre crop of 4k. This means I could live with one speedboosted 24-70 f2.8 lens on the camera for 95% of the time (effective equivalent range of 30 to 180mm with a 0.64x booster)

I would just buy one of the small, hang on the front, square ND filter kits, better imagine quality than the normal round ones you rotate.

But here is a link to some 10 stop ones.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=10+Stop+ND+Filter&mmreqh=j0CfJ0Fwp83qpW81Hgxz6IAPfyzeqWC9OW%2bKcHvJyW4%3d&form=INLIRS

 

 

[sanveer]

On 2/27/2022 at 10:34 AM, Video Hummus said:

There isn't any 25MP MFT sensor leak or Information of any kind. Usually there is some kind of Sony product paper out there. So my guess was it could be manufactured by Canon. Why? It's most probably BSI and it has a form of DGO of some derivative. Unless Canon isn't manufacturing their own BSI sensors? Is the sensor in the R3 a Canon manufactured sensor or Sony (there were rumors they were perhaps having Sony do the fab)?

On Semi doesn't have any 4/3 sensors listed on their product page. I doubt they are the provider.

That leaves Samsung as a possibility.

At 27:45, he mentions 16-bit RAW. Which me6snd that the signal strength (can be further widened and?) can help with exposure latitude making it as good (if better than) RAW codecs on larger cameras. Though he mentions that it's for photo (for now?). Maybe, if it does external 16-bit RAW, that would be superb. Also, I hope Panasonic releases a much thinner version of that awful looking Yagn, for real-time compressions into an external RAW recorder (SSD) at 1:3 to 1:18, thereby circumventing that RED patent and also having a recorded for quicker turnaround. 

 

[Mmmbeats]

On 3/1/2022 at 4:29 AM, kye said:

In terms of ISO2000 compared to 800 (wasn't 800 the native ISO for Vlog on the GH5?) isn't it only slightly more than a stop more exposed?  If so, you only need to add a single-stop of ND to your setup and it's the same.  Or am I missing something?

This is a decent point actually, but the GH5 native ISO for V-log is *optimal* rather than compulsory.  You can expose below it and take a slight DR hit.  Whereas the GH6 ISO 2000 requirement is a *minimum* for DR Boost, and if you want to expose at a lower gain setting you take a huge hit by switching to non-boost.

[sanveer]

"Featuring a 20% increase in resolution, the GH6 touts a new, higher-res Micro Four Thirds sensor."

Isn't 20MP to 25MP a 25% resolution increase? Or am I missing something? So they count the sensor resolution, beyond the effective pixels? 

[PannySVHS]

There is no live cropping on the S1. Crazy. @projectwoofer GH5 is so much more versatile when it comes to filming and crop modes. Owning it for almost two years and three months, I still have not warmed up with my S1 despite the potentially awesome image quality. Seems like the S5 is much more fun with its swivel screen and right handed mode dial operation.

Anyhow, GH6 looks like a winner.