Panasonic GH6

[kye]

Great video showing the streaking issues that the GH6 has with its current firmware version, and comparing the streaking with other cameras that share the same technology (FX3, Red V-Raptor, Pocket 6K Pro, S1H, and GH5)..

Spoiler, the GH6 is worse than the others, but all the others (except the V-Raptor) have some degree of streaking.

My read on it is that since it appears to be heavily influenced by the ISO value and DR boost feature that this is something they can probably improve in future firmware updates.  We all know the camera isn't really "fully baked" yet as it still doesn't have Prores in 1080p or 4K modes, and lacks other features that Panasonic promised on release.

I think they rushed it out to stem the bleeding from all the "MFT is dead" BS from people who don't actually shoot anything, and will gradually improve it in future versions.

[Avenger 2.0]

3 hours ago, kye said:

Great video showing the streaking issues that the GH6 has with its current firmware version, and comparing the streaking with other cameras that share the same technology (FX3, Red V-Raptor, Pocket 6K Pro, S1H, and GH5).

Spoiler, the GH6 is worse than the others, but all the others (except the V-Raptor) have some degree of streaking.

My read on it is that since it appears to be heavily influenced by the ISO value and DR boost feature that this is something they can probably improve in future firmware updates.  We all know the camera isn't really "fully baked" yet as it still doesn't have Prores in 1080p or 4K modes, and lacks other features that Panasonic promised on release.

I think they rushed it out to stem the bleeding from all the "MFT is dead" BS from people who don't actually shoot anything, and will gradually improve it in future versions.

Maybe it's better to buy a second hand GH5 II now and wait till this camera is mature. Guess that will still take some years...

[TomTheDP]

6 hours ago, kye said:

Great video showing the streaking issues that the GH6 has with its current firmware version, and comparing the streaking with other cameras that share the same technology (FX3, Red V-Raptor, Pocket 6K Pro, S1H, and GH5)..

Spoiler, the GH6 is worse than the others, but all the others (except the V-Raptor) have some degree of streaking.

My read on it is that since it appears to be heavily influenced by the ISO value and DR boost feature that this is something they can probably improve in future firmware updates.  We all know the camera isn't really "fully baked" yet as it still doesn't have Prores in 1080p or 4K modes, and lacks other features that Panasonic promised on release.

I think they rushed it out to stem the bleeding from all the "MFT is dead" BS from people who don't actually shoot anything, and will gradually improve it in future versions.

Oddly I have seen streaking with RAW on the S1 / S1h

[kye]

2 hours ago, Avenger 2.0 said:

Maybe it's better to buy a second hand GH5 II now and wait till this camera is mature. Guess that will still take some years...

I'm not sure it will take years, but it's not here yet.  I'm in no hurry.

A GH5ii isn't a bad purchase actually.

30 minutes ago, TomTheDP said:

Oddly I have seen streaking with RAW on the S1 / S1h

Yeah, I don't know much about sensor design but the guy said it was an issue of CMOS sensors and that you have to compensate for it.

The problem seemed to be something that could crop up in real use.

[MrSMW]

Is it possible to saw off the LCD from the GH6 and then gaffer tape it or something to the GH5ii?

Or onto the OM-1.

Or XH2s which it also sounds like they are going to ruin with a flippy flip flop screen…

[TomTheDP]

7 minutes ago, kye said:

I'm not sure it will take years, but it's not here yet.  I'm in no hurry.

A GH5ii isn't a bad purchase actually.

Yeah, I don't know much about sensor design but the guy said it was an issue of CMOS sensors and that you have to compensate for it.

The problem seemed to be something that could crop up in real use.

Meant to say I have not seen it. Though I confusing streaking with noise banding which aren't the same thing. The worst camera I have noticed streaking on is the C300 MK2, to the point where I probably wouldn't use it.

I shot a window situation like shown in that video above with the Sigma FP and didn't see any streaking though.

[webrunner5]

3 hours ago, Avenger 2.0 said:

Maybe it's better to buy a second hand GH5 II now and wait till this camera is mature. Guess that will still take some years...

I think the GH6 may be the last M4/3 camera Panasonic makes. And I don't see the Olympus 1 being a runaway hit for the masses. Could be the end for them. You can buy FF cameras cheaper than them right now.

[newfoundmass]

7 hours ago, kye said:

Great video showing the streaking issues that the GH6 has with its current firmware version, and comparing the streaking with other cameras that share the same technology (FX3, Red V-Raptor, Pocket 6K Pro, S1H, and GH5)..

Spoiler, the GH6 is worse than the others, but all the others (except the V-Raptor) have some degree of streaking.

My read on it is that since it appears to be heavily influenced by the ISO value and DR boost feature that this is something they can probably improve in future firmware updates.  We all know the camera isn't really "fully baked" yet as it still doesn't have Prores in 1080p or 4K modes, and lacks other features that Panasonic promised on release.

I think they rushed it out to stem the bleeding from all the "MFT is dead" BS from people who don't actually shoot anything, and will gradually improve it in future versions.

Sherif, who has worked with Panasonic for years and was hired by them to make GH3 and GH4 videos for promotional purposes, seemed really disappointed with Panasonic's response. For those that didn't watch, Panasonic indicated to him that they were satisfied with the performance. That's not to say they won't try to improve it in the future (my words, not his), but I too am disappointed by that response. Panasonic has always felt like the company that listens and cares about their users (except for autofocus lol.) They absolutely should not be satisfied with this performance. 

 

16 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

I think the GH6 may be the last M4/3 camera Panasonic makes. And I don't see the Olympus 1 being a runaway hit for the masses. Could be the end for them. You can buy FF cameras cheaper than them right now.

There are still advantages to M43, and it does have a dedicated user base. As much as I like my new S5, I really appreciate how compact my M43 kit is even more. I think we'll continue to see a slowdown in releases compared to 2014-2017, but I think we'll still see more M43 cameras down the road. 

[webrunner5]

7 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

There are still advantages to M43, and it does have a dedicated user base. As much as I like my new S5, I really appreciate how compact my M43 kit is even more. I think we'll continue to see a slowdown in releases compared to 2014-2017, but I think we'll still see more M43 cameras down the road. 

My Sony A7s II is smaller than my GH5 was by a mile. And their better lenses hardly weigh anything and are amazingly small. Sure, if you want a 600mm lens a M4/3 is smaller, but it will be a slower lens to boot and cost close to the same money.

[newfoundmass]

6 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

My Sony A7s II is smaller than my GH5 was by a mile. And their better lenses hardly weigh anything and are amazingly small. Sure, if you want a 600mm lens a M4/3 is smaller, but it will be a slower lens to boot and cost close to the same money.

For a lot of work using primes isn't feasible, and you need to use zooms. It's in those situations where the size difference really stands out. The 12-35mm is 305 g, while the Sony 24-70mm is 886 g. The 35-100mm is 357 g, while the Sony 70-200 is 1045 g. The 100-400mm f/4-6.3 is 985 g, the Sony 200-600mm f/5.6-6.3 is 2115 g. That's not even factoring in the length of them.

All of those lenses are also considerably cheaper than their Sony counterparts.

Also, if you wanted to get a 600mm full frame equivalent lens for M43 you would go with the Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 300mm f/4. It weighs 1475 g and costs $2,849.99. The Sony FE 600mm f/4 meanwhile weighs 3040 g and costs $12,998.00.

You were saying? 😉

[webrunner5]

I will give you credit but I am still never going to buy a M4/3 camera again in my life.

[newfoundmass]

46 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

I will give you credit but I am still never going to buy a M4/3 camera again in my life.

I understand. A lot of people won't, unfortunately. I go back and forth on it myself, honestly. But there really are positives to the system, and they don't get nearly as much love as they deserve. 

[kye]

1 hour ago, newfoundmass said:

I understand. A lot of people won't, unfortunately. I go back and forth on it myself, honestly. But there really are positives to the system, and they don't get nearly as much love as they deserve. 

Agreed.  

Film-making is so personal / contextual, which is why a great plethora of various cameras and related equipment abounds.

I see pros and cons to the various sensor sizes, everything from 2/3" in smartphones to FF and beyond.  The challenge is getting something that best fits your unique needs and preferences.

2 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

I will give you credit but I am still never going to buy a M4/3 camera again in my life.

Fair enough.  We all have individual preferences.

Not exactly sure why you're commenting this over and over again though?  I'm not in the anamorphic lens threads saying how I'll never buy an anamorphic lens - it wouldn't accomplish anything.

[webrunner5]

You can buy FF cameras now for less than m4/3. They have lost all their advantages of a cheaper price. Very few people buy big ass lenses in this day and age, most just buy a basic zoom, maybe a 50mm and that is it anymore so small cheap lenses not really an edge anymore, and there are Very few people that shoot Anamorphic, mainly because of the crazy price point.

And now the top M4/3 are as big or bigger size and weight wise as FF stuff. Why would an average buyer even consider one now. Not counting worse low light, not many AF fast lenses, low MP count and still less DOF, I know people will say they are really the same, bull shit. There is a reason people shoot MF, and People shoot an 8x10 over a 4x5, etc., better DOF.

[webrunner5]

46 minutes ago, kye said:

Not exactly sure why you're commenting this over and over again though?  I'm not in the anamorphic lens threads saying how I'll never buy an anamorphic lens - it wouldn't accomplish anything.

Me talking about the same thing over and over again, coming from you you can't be serious! They won't for the average person, what the hell you even going to view it on? You going to watch it on half your TV screen?

[newfoundmass]

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

You can buy FF cameras now for less than m4/3. They have lost all their advantages of a cheaper price.

Lenses are generally cheaper than their full frame counterparts. They're also smaller, as I stated earlier. Even buying third party FF lenses you'd still spend less on the M43 versions. Are they at fast as their FF counterparts? No, but that's not the most important thing for a lot of people 

I believe that the M43 system, particularly Panasonic, needs to improve in order for the system to continue. I'm uneasy about Panasonic's long term success because of the AF and how important it is to the market, even if it's not the most important thing to me. But people have proclaiming M43's death since before the GH4. 

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

And now the top M4/3 are as big or bigger size and weight wise as FF stuff.

The bodies do. The lenses, especially the zooms, are a different story. A GH6 body with battery, memory card and 12-35mm lense weighs 1,128 g. The A7IV with battery, memory card, and 24-70mm is 1,544. 

It's the same story with the other zooms, too. In fact the size gap grows significantly. A 70-200mm FF lense alone weighs about the same as a GH6 with a 35-100mm.

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

Why would an average buyer even consider one now. Not counting worse low light, not many AF fast lenses, low MP count and still less DOF, I know people will say they are really the same, bull shit. There is a reason people shoot MF, and People shoot an 8x10 over a 4x5, etc., better DOF.

I mean, it depends on the user. In video? All of those things have workarounds on M43. Low light? Add more light. The lenses all auto focus pretty quickly on systems with good AF. The GH6 has the same MP count as many full frame cameras doesn't it? You can get nice DOF. Photography? Low light isn't as big of an issue. Auto focus works great. MP? Both Panny and Olympus have added high resolution modes. Have you seen the 100mp images the GH6 can produce? Incredible stuff. And the stabilization can't be beat. 

M43 isn't for you. That's OK. 

[kye]

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

Me talking about the same thing over and over again, coming from you you can't be serious! They won't for the average person, what the hell you even going to view it on? You going to watch it on half your TV screen?

I'll happily admit that I repeat myself, but I try and do so only when it adds to the conversation.

Just posting negative one-liners - not so much.

[webrunner5]

It doesn't take me 4 paragraphs to get a simple point across.

[webrunner5]

But I do read and respect your posts, so continue as usual please.

[TomTheDP]

Camera sales are tanking in general. M43 has it's place but will it become so niche that it's not even worth investing in, for camera companies? Sony hasn't done any M43 cameras, they could probably have an edge over Panasonic with their auto focus. But they probably think the market is too small or dying in general. 

If companies making M43 cameras had their shit together more I don't think there would be as much of an issue. Panasonic would kill the vlogging market with state of the art auto focus and their IBIS but time and time again they miss the opportunity.

The M43 P4K is still very relevant. But Blackmagic almost perfectly catered to their audience at the lowest price point possible. 

I really like the GH6 but the Sigma FP is smaller, has internal RAW and a much larger sensor. Same reason I didn't buy a Fuji. The XT3 was cutting edge but they haven't improved since. No RAW, no 4k 120p, no full HDMI. It's a smaller sensor shouldn't it be more featured than full frame counterparts? 

I feel the innovation is really lacking with M43 Panasonic and Fuji, also Sony has put no effort into their S35 line up, while their cutting edge full frame stuff has gotten really expensive.