Panasonic GH6

[hyalinejim]

1 hour ago, FoxAdriano said:

I shot with f14 and got EXCELLENT clips.

Yes, those settings sound like around 2 stops overexposed for full sun. Sorry, I thought you were shooting with DR boost on.

If you like the look of 2 stops overexposed, and are happy with the dynamic range of ISO 250 as well as the DOF of F11 to F22 then you won't need an ND filter.

If you added a 3 stop fixed ND filter you could use the same settings with DR boost, giving you the same look but with more dynamic range.

Can you post an ungraded still of the river scene? It would be interesting to see.

[FoxAdriano]

I thank you for your help! Sure, later I will post a still of the river scene but later because now I am not at home.
Out of curiosity: with GH6 how do you expone usually? I have read that unlike the GH5 which had to be overexposed, the GH6 is not necessary. But it's true? Always keeping an eye on the Zebra and the Waveform, do you usually overexpose a little or not at all? In other words, do you keep the exposure diagram at "0" or +1? I thank you again.

[FoxAdriano]

I think, I hope it is better if I send you the clip: https://www.dropbox.com/s/67bny6beslc0477/P1012783.MOV?dl=0

You will hear my voice in the clip / test. The clip was exposed at f13 with +2 overexposure.

 

[hyalinejim]

1 hour ago, FoxAdriano said:

I have read that unlike the GH5 which had to be overexposed, the GH6 is not necessary. But it's true?

The GH5 has a bug in V-Log where the meter doesn't work properly. The base ISO of the GH5 is 200 and in V-Log it's 400. Most camera sensors clip at about four stops above middle grey. Log profiles work by deliberately underexposing the image to give more stops in the highlights, and then brightening the image so that it looks correctly exposed. So when you shoot in V-Log at ISO 400 the camera is actually shooting at the ISO 200 level. However, the meter (incorrectly) continues to show the exposure value for 200 ISO. You can verify this by switching from V-Log to a standard profile. The meter reading will change by one stop. So one stop over on the GH5's meter in V-Log is actually the correct exposure. The GH6 has fixed this problem.

The clip you uploaded is perfectly usable. I would say that it's about one stop overexposed, but because no highlights are clipping then no information is lost. It's a good example of ETTR technique.

As shot

 

-1 stop in post

 

-1 stop in post with Panasonic lut applied. In my view the Panasonic lut is too dark. Middle grey (code value 422) stays at 422, whereas it really should be at around 494 which is middle grey in Rec709.

-1 stop in post with my Kodak Portra lut applied. My lut preserves the correct value for middle grey.

[FoxAdriano]

I don't know how to thank you for your valuable advice. My English is not good, so I seem to understand that to make a good clip with V-Log and GH6 you have to expose "0" normally. That is, don't overexpose, but at most "+1" if you want that precise dynamic range, ie a brighter image. Right?

I use Edius Pro and the Panasonic Lut for video editing, maybe you recommend another better Lut? However, is that gray easily fixed in post if I use Panasonic Lut? But how? It seems incredible to me that the Panasonic Lut falls short of another non-proprietary Lut.

One last question please, as you are much more experienced than me. I will make a documentary in a wooden village on stilts and sometimes in a boat on the sea on sunny days. Can you recommend a precise good Polarize filter and also its brand for my Leica 12-60mm? Thank you very much again.

[hyalinejim]

14 hours ago, FoxAdriano said:

I seem to understand that to make a good clip with V-Log and GH6 you have to expose "0" normally. That is, don't overexpose, but at most "+1" if you want that precise dynamic range, ie a brighter image. Right?

Exposure and metering is a complex subject. My original point is that the idea that you "must" overexpose V-Log has little basis in good practice.

14 hours ago, FoxAdriano said:

It seems incredible to me that the Panasonic Lut falls short of another non-proprietary Lut.

I was also surprised by this. However, Panasonic's other grading luts are a joke. And their standard picture profiles are pretty poor, in my view. I strongly disliked the look from the GH4, which I shot with temporarily, and only became interested in Panasonic when 10bit log became available with the GH5. They don't have a good track record of delivering nice images, in my view. With that said, I suppose their V-Log to Rec709 lut is supposed to be a starting point for a grade. It's quite low contrast so I guess they are expecting the user to work on the image a bit. If you're happy with the results you get from the Panasonic lut, then stick with it.

14 hours ago, FoxAdriano said:

Can you recommend a precise good Polarize filter

I don't have a recommendation, sorry.

[FoxAdriano]

Please, can you at least tell me if it is bettr to buy a CPL a little wider than the lens for fear of vignetting? Or is the same lens size okay? Thank you

[FoxAdriano]

I apologize if I ask you so many questions but I would like to understand well. Today I did many tests without overexposing anything, I left the exposure bar at "0". I shot with the 3top ND filter, in 4K, 50p, 1/100, 2.2.2. But when I went to put the clips on the editing software timeline, I had to turn up the curve to lighten the clip images (I think it is too much). I had to do it for all the clips. Is this normal or am I getting some problem with the GH6?

[kye]

37 minutes ago, FoxAdriano said:

I apologize if I ask you so many questions but I would like to understand well.

I will let @hyalinejim address your technical questions directly as I have no experience with V-Log, but I think there might be a broader context worth considering.

I have viewed a selection of your videos, which are shot in only available light - this means across a varied array of lighting conditions.  This is how I also shoot.

In these situations, exposure isn't something that you "get right" it's something you adjust to try and balance according to the needs of the shot.  You are likely to face a few scenarios:

• all your subjects are evenly illuminated - this means adjusting the exposure to be "correct" and not making exposure adjustments in post
• your subjects are not evenly illuminated - this means you would adjust exposure to be between the subjects, so that no subject is too dark and no subject is too bright - you might even out this situation in post so that all subjects are clear
• your subject is illuminated but there are details you want to keep in the scene that are brighter - eg the sky or perhaps the outside world if you are shooting inside or if your subjects are around a fire - this means lowering your exposure so that the bright element isn't blown out and then raising the exposure of your subjects in post so they're clearly visible but the bright elements are also visible
• same as above only the detail you want to keep is darker - so you expose higher than normal and bring your subject down in brightness in post

Considering the dynamic range and quality of modern cameras, these adjustment are possible and there is a significant amount of latitude in the footage for you to be able to compensate for the conditions.

In this context it's great to understand "proper" exposure, but it would benefit your work more to expose in a more flexible manner and concentrating on learning to grade your footage better.

I have vague memories of your previous visits to these forums and you were having trouble getting the colours that you were looking for, and were talking about how to use your camera to get the best colours.  Actually, learning how to manipulate the colour in the files you have is a much more useful skill.

[hyalinejim]

9 hours ago, FoxAdriano said:

I had to turn up the curve to lighten the clip

As mentioned, my opinion is that the Panasonic lut is slightly too dark. Aside from this the issue of "perfect" exposure is complex.

None of it matters if you can get the results that you're looking for. It's normal to brighten or darken clips in post. I'd imagine that the only people who are trying to get extremely accurate exposures in-camera are those shooting slide film.

[webrunner5]

Black and White film has to be near perfect to look great also. But yeah, with the GH6 there ought to be enough latitude in post to get what you want. You can't be off a mile but..

[FoxAdriano]

About VND, can anyone tell me how to use it as a polarizer to eliminate water reflections of the sea from a boat? I know that there is a particular technique.

[FoxAdriano]

Hi, sorry if I post again, but I still keep getting confused about ND filters and I'm getting agitated. I shoot ONLY video in V-Log, 4K with my GH6 + Leica 12-60mm. I currently use a solid (3 stop) ND filter because I refused to use the SLR Magic Reflex VND filter. Today I did a whole work with the solid ND and I had a lot of little practicality problems, so I'm considering going back to the VND filter. In fact for those who only make videos, the solid ND filter is not practical. My VND SLR Magic Reflex filter satisfies me enough with sharpness but not with color cast and vignetting. My question is: is there a better VND than my VND SLR Magic Reflex VND filter? I wouldn't want to buy a similar but much better VND filter. I only hope those who actually have a lot of experience can answer, otherwise my ideas will be even more confused. I already know the most famous brands of filters but sometimes they are not the best filters. So whoever has practiced and done tests, I would be very happy for him to respond to me. THANK YOU, 1000 THANKS

[kye]

11 hours ago, FoxAdriano said:

Hi, sorry if I post again, but I still keep getting confused about ND filters and I'm getting agitated. I shoot ONLY video in V-Log, 4K with my GH6 + Leica 12-60mm. I currently use a solid (3 stop) ND filter because I refused to use the SLR Magic Reflex VND filter. Today I did a whole work with the solid ND and I had a lot of little practicality problems, so I'm considering going back to the VND filter. In fact for those who only make videos, the solid ND filter is not practical. My VND SLR Magic Reflex filter satisfies me enough with sharpness but not with color cast and vignetting. My question is: is there a better VND than my VND SLR Magic Reflex VND filter? I wouldn't want to buy a similar but much better VND filter. I only hope those who actually have a lot of experience can answer, otherwise my ideas will be even more confused. I already know the most famous brands of filters but sometimes they are not the best filters. So whoever has practiced and done tests, I would be very happy for him to respond to me. THANK YOU, 1000 THANKS

I can't speak to which VND filters to buy, but if you search YouTube usually you can find videos where people test and compare various VND filters.  

It's a bit of a difficult one because "good enough" is different for each person, so what is acceptable for one person isn't for another.  I'd suggest doing some searching and seeing what you can find.

[FoxAdriano]

3 hours ago, kye said:

I can't speak to which VND filters to buy, but if you search YouTube usually you can find videos where people test and compare various VND f

I thank you for your suggestions, but ... I'm sorry, on youtube there is everything and the opposite of everything. There is a lot of sponsorship. I have already done research on youtube and I was very disappointed. I would like some dispassionate advice from those who have experience on ND filters and use a VND with satisfaction.

[MrSMW]

I have had zero issue with Freewell VND or Nisi.

These are my go to for my needs.

[hyalinejim]

It's a very difficult question to answer.

The vignetting problem depends on the lens on you use. The wider it is, the more vignetting is likely. In general, thinner filters are less likely to vignette than thicker ones. You could also try buying a filter one size up from your largest lens and use a step up ring. My SLR Magic Vari ND II is actually in itself one size larger, ie: its rear filter thread is 82 and its front 86 or something.

Colour cast is not a problem for me because it's a global change in colour so a white balance adjustment will correct for it. However, a colour cast that increases or decreases with varying levels of ND might be a nuisance, I suppose.

I agree that it's very hard to find objective information. Most of it is on YouTube, not definitive and probably compromised by relationships with the manufacturers.

The best thing would be to order four or five of the most likely contenders, test them yourself, keep the one you like best and return the others... if that's possible with the retailer(s) you buy from.

PS: and if you do, post the results!

[92F]

An uncompromising test which shows that a VND (as said above)  is never neutral ... but remains much more easy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzF6hroocH8

It's a compromise, find yours

[hyalinejim]

I actually enjoyed this "review" as the shots in it are lovely.

I might give this filter a go as it seems to be quite good according to Amateur Photographer who I suppose are probably a bit more reliable than the average YouTuber.

The filter is Nisi True Colour. Note, that it's a 1 to 5 stop, not the 1.5 to 5 stop which they also sell. A poster on our friend @FoxAdriano's thread on a different forum had this interesting tidbit:

Quote

There are polarizer foils with stronger and weaker polarizing effect. The stronger ones also have a stronger base density (are darker to look through). Polarizers designed for indoor use (like to get rid of glass reflections in a museum) use weaker foils. Outdoor polirazers use the stronger foil. There is a recent trend for filter makers to use weaker foils also for outdoor polarizers, because customers ask for for a low base density so they can leave the filter on the lens permanently.

I guess the True Colour and similar filters that have a low base density use the weaker polarisers, which is probably better to reduce colour cast, degree of polarisation and x pattern. I'm very much leaning towards a 5 stop fixed ND plus light vari ND for DR Boost on GH6 outdoors.

[FoxAdriano]

Thanks a lot for your hepl!!

So I'll act like this: I'll buy Nisi True Color on Amazon, hoping Nisi is better than my SLR Magic Vari ND, but if I don't like it, I'll return it and only use the solid ND which is giving me much better results. I would like to ask a question: do you know if Nisi True Color has the front thread to be able to screw in another filter, or ..... why not, a lens hood? I am using a lens hood with my SLR Magic Vari ND and I'm very satisfied. I don't turn the filter ring with my hand but the lens hood.