GH5 quality settings for music videos, weddings etc.

[@yan_berthemy_photography]

Hi there,

 

I was wondering which quality settings do you guys use for commercial stuff such as weddings, music videos, etc.

I found 4k very hard to edit with some leggings issues, etc. what do you recommend to shoot with? 4k 10bit/8bit 60fps or FHD 10bit?

 

will 4K look like FHD if downscaled to FHD?

 

Thanks

[thebrothersthre3]

4k is more detailed when downscaled to 1080, though its not very noticeable. 

The only real advantage of 4k unless of course you need to deliver in 4k is being able to crop without losing too much resolution and it holds up a bit better to post noise reduction. If you don't crop in post and aren't shooting in low light then 1080 would be fine for me. 

You can transcode to a lighter codec if your editing program is lagging. 

[fuzzynormal]

Standard response:  proxy editing. 

[kye]

4 hours ago, @yan_berthemy_photography said:

Hi there,

 

I was wondering which quality settings do you guys use for commercial stuff such as weddings, music videos, etc.

I found 4k very hard to edit with some leggings issues, etc. what do you recommend to shoot with? 4k 10bit/8bit 60fps or FHD 10bit?

 

will 4K look like FHD if downscaled to FHD?

 

Thanks

If you're delivering in 4K: shoot 4K and use proxies to edit with.

If you're delivering in 1080 and need to crop a lot in post: shoot 4K.

If you're delivering in 1080 and don't need to crop much in post: film a few test shots to compare the 4K 10-bit mode and the 1080 10-bit mode and see how the image looks to you and if it's acceptable.  The 10-bit modes are one of the key advantages of the GH5 and I'd suggest that for commercial work 10-bit vs 8-bit probably makes more difference than 4K vs 1080p.

[newfoundmass]

For me it depends on the project. For events I usually shoot 1080p unless I have to deliver in 4K. Because I'll have coverage from multiple cameras I rarely ever feel like I wish I had the extra resolution to crop in. 

For music video or narrative work I'll usually shoot in 4K even if I am delivering 1080p. Even though I'm a big proponent of shooting it right, there are enough times where I'm glad I had that extra resolution to crop in that it's worth shooting it in 4K. For creative projects like that the more options the better. 

[kye]

3 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

For me it depends on the project. For events I usually shoot 1080p unless I have to deliver in 4K. Because I'll have coverage from multiple cameras I rarely ever feel like I wish I had the extra resolution to crop in. 

For music video or narrative work I'll usually shoot in 4K even if I am delivering 1080p. Even though I'm a big proponent of shooting it right, there are enough times where I'm glad I had that extra resolution to crop in that it's worth shooting it in 4K. For creative projects like that the more options the better. 

When you crop is it to try and create an additional camera angle?

My wife does public speaking and they film the talks but only from one angle, so if you want to edit them without jump cuts then you have to crop to create a virtual second angle.  It's an odd thing but it kind of works.  I'm curious how you use it.

[Rinad Amir]

Id say shoot in 4k and edit in 1080p timeline

Adjust your shots or scale then export it as 4k 

Is this correct workflow can anyone chip in 

Am noob?

[thebrothersthre3]

10 minutes ago, Rinad Amir said:

Id say shoot in 4k and edit in 1080p timeline

Adjust your shots or scale then export it as 4k 

Is this correct workflow can anyone chip in 

Am noob?

Correct workflow is the one that works for you. 

[kye]

5 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Correct workflow is the one that works for you. 

...and gets the images you want to get.

This is art, not science.

[newfoundmass]

20 hours ago, kye said:

When you crop is it to try and create an additional camera angle?

My wife does public speaking and they film the talks but only from one angle, so if you want to edit them without jump cuts then you have to crop to create a virtual second angle.  It's an odd thing but it kind of works.  I'm curious how you use it.

Not so much to create another camera angle as much having the option to re-frame if necessary, though sometimes it's used as an extra camera angle. 

[anonim]

On 2/8/2019 at 10:05 AM, kye said:

When you crop is it to try and create an additional camera angle?

My wife does public speaking and they film the talks but only from one angle, so if you want to edit them without jump cuts then you have to crop to create a virtual second angle.  It's an odd thing but it kind of works.  I'm curious how you use it.

Something more to appreciate in GH5... Recently I had to shot (very fast as always in micro or no advanced budget circumstances) scene of dynamic dialog with two cameras, so I used  GH5 and GH5s - and how much I regretted that I had no just two GH5! Reason is, at first glance, the simplest: fast change from regular to lock IBIS function. Ability to move fast without tripod and with confidence lock 3-5 or more second of steady shot on subject, had, for me at that moment,  the most precious value.... Applied to upper quote, the same function provides great possibility to make fake two cameras angles - because of so fast adaptive position, without too much bothering actor or testing patience of volunteer.

(And people yet claim that IBIS is not useful from professional point of view or that even just ruin shots... For so many more complex or uncontrolled occasions usable IBIS is imo really godsend. Just learn or develop way to make full creative usage of it.)

[thebrothersthre3]

37 minutes ago, anonim said:

Something more to appreciate in GH5... Recently I had to shot (very fast as always in micro or no advanced budget circumstances) scene of dynamic dialog with two cameras, so I used  GH5 and GH5s - and how much I regretted that I had no just two GH5! Reason is, at first glance, the simplest: fast change from regular to lock IBIS function. Ability to move fast without tripod and with confidence lock 3-5 or more second of steady shot on subject, had, for me at that moment,  the most precious value.... Applied to upper quote, the same function provides great possibility to make fake two cameras angles - because of so fast adaptive position, without too much bothering actor or testing patience of volunteer.

(And people yet claim that IBIS is not useful from professional point of view or that even just ruin shots... For so many more complex or uncontrolled occasions usable IBIS is imo really godsend. Just learn or develop way to make full creative usage of it.)

Replacing a tripod is one of the strong points of IBIS. Though for really long shots I'd rather use a tripod. 

[anonim]

20 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Replacing a tripod is one of the strong points of IBIS. Though for really long shots I'd rather use a tripod. 

Yes, what I'd mostly wished to point out is how subtle, slightly more freedom in moving, provided with capable ibis, may totally redefine whole shooting and then aesthetic approach. Always depending on tripod forced us to think at one direction in construction and resolving task. Being able to easy lay down, sway, move with camera not being afraid of unusable shaky footage open gate for more freely probing  and some, to say so, more kaleidoscopic visual as whole. So, IBIS is not just add-tool, but carefully crafting its usage it may become different instrument in conveying ideas in poetical way.

To OP question, just suggestion over regular in-camera settings - I think that GH5 with its 10bit quality+IBIS combination provides some yet unbeatable benefits of our own movements and bodies-in-time/space as stylistically original composing frame.

[thebrothersthre3]

2 minutes ago, anonim said:

Yes, what I'd mostly wished to point out is how subtle, slightly more freedom in moving, provided with capable ibis, may totally redefine whole shooting and then aesthetic approach. Always depending on tripod forced us to think at one direction in construction and resolving task. Being able to easy lay down, sway, move with camera not being afraid of unusable shaky footage open gate for more freely probing  and some, to say so, more kaleidoscopic visual as whole. So, IBIS is not just add-tool, but carefully crafting its usage it may become different instrument in conveying ideas in poetical way.

To OP question, just suggestion over regular in-camera settings - I think that GH5 with its 10bit quality+IBIS combination provides some yet unbeatable benefits of our own movements and bodies-in-time/space as stylistically original composing frame.

Yeah I shot a whole short with IBIS, definitely a completely different workflow. Though I discovered it couldn't replace a gimbal for walking shots. 

[anonim]

10 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Yeah I shot a whole short with IBIS, definitely a completely different workflow. Though I discovered it couldn't replace a gimbal for walking shots. 

Yes, totally steady walking shots is hard to achieve, maybe closer with UW lens as, say, Laowa. (It even be more natural in Dogma manifest sense.)

But, further evolving previous post, I'm close to conclusion that IBIS actually is not at all replace for gimbal (I even see it more as vice versa attempt - gimbal as unperfect substitute for perfect ibis :) - it has its own original using signature, because of psychologically higher level of unlocked free movements. With gimbal I'm still aware of instrument and I'm still greatly depending of its dictating rules and positioning limitations. IBIS is far more to the serve of free gestures, some sort of shooting calligraphy. Of course, to my feeling and eye, which are so often prone to be in mistake 

[thebrothersthre3]

55 minutes ago, anonim said:

Yes, totally steady walking shots is hard to achieve, maybe closer with UW lens as, say, Laowa. (It even be more natural in Dogma manifest sense.)

But, further evolving previous post, I'm close to conclusion that IBIS actually is not at all replace for gimbal (I even see it more as vice versa attempt - gimbal as unperfect substitute for perfect ibis :) - it has its own original using signature, because of psychologically higher level of unlocked free movements. With gimbal I'm still aware of instrument and I'm still greatly depending of its dictating rules and positioning limitations. IBIS is far more to the serve of free gestures, some sort of shooting calligraphy. Of course, to my feeling and eye, which are so often prone to be in mistake 

That's true you can be much more in tune with your camera when using IBIS. I love your knowledge of film history though most of it goes right over my head ? 

[KnightsFan]

1 hour ago, anonim said:

With gimbal I'm still aware of instrument and I'm still greatly depending of its dictating rules and positioning limitations.

I often use a Glidecam. I once used an electronic gimbal and hated it for this reason. It was so difficult to smoothly and accurately pan/tilt, and I couldn't lower the handle too much or the camera hit the motor on the back. And forget canted angles--If there was a way, it was buried in the app. With the glidecam, all movement is a direct, 0 latency result of me aiming the camera. It provides the tactile feedback of a fully mechanical system, like handheld. If I pan too far, I feel it between my fingers before I see it on the monitor. As far as freedom of movement, I find mechanical gimbals to be a lot closer to handheld than electronic gimbals.

[thebrothersthre3]

20 minutes ago, KnightsFan said:

I often use a Glidecam. I once used an electronic gimbal and hated it for this reason. It was so difficult to smoothly and accurately pan/tilt, and I couldn't lower the handle too much or the camera hit the motor on the back. And forget canted angles--If there was a way, it was buried in the app. With the glidecam, all movement is a direct, 0 latency result of me aiming the camera. It provides the tactile feedback of a fully mechanical system, like handheld. If I pan too far, I feel it between my fingers before I see it on the monitor. As far as freedom of movement, I find mechanical gimbals to be a lot closer to handheld than electronic gimbals.

Yeah Glidecams offer more control at the expensive of a steeper learning curve. I tried using one for a while but really sucked at it. 

A nicer gimbal like the Ronin M does offer a lot of control though, really love mine, especially since I got it for under $500. Its not a Glidecam though. 

[KnightsFan]

@thebrothersthre3 a lot of people get great results with gimbals. with some practice you can build the muscle memory with little joysticks for control, which i definitely do not have. But i certainly found the experience of using a glidecam for the first time to be more enjoyable than my first attempt at using an electronic gimbal.

The quality of the gimbal helps a lot too. I used two different glidecam 4000 pro's. One was decent, the other utterly sucked. If i had used that bad one first, i probably would have given up and never touched a glidecam again. And then an HD 4000 is in another league entirely. Its magic compared to the pros.

[kye]

9 hours ago, anonim said:

Something more to appreciate in GH5... Recently I had to shot (very fast as always in micro or no advanced budget circumstances) scene of dynamic dialog with two cameras, so I used  GH5 and GH5s - and how much I regretted that I had no just two GH5! Reason is, at first glance, the simplest: fast change from regular to lock IBIS function. Ability to move fast without tripod and with confidence lock 3-5 or more second of steady shot on subject, had, for me at that moment,  the most precious value.... Applied to upper quote, the same function provides great possibility to make fake two cameras angles - because of so fast adaptive position, without too much bothering actor or testing patience of volunteer.

(And people yet claim that IBIS is not useful from professional point of view or that even just ruin shots... For so many more complex or uncontrolled occasions usable IBIS is imo really godsend. Just learn or develop way to make full creative usage of it.)

 

7 hours ago, anonim said:

Yes, totally steady walking shots is hard to achieve, maybe closer with UW lens as, say, Laowa. (It even be more natural in Dogma manifest sense.)

But, further evolving previous post, I'm close to conclusion that IBIS actually is not at all replace for gimbal (I even see it more as vice versa attempt - gimbal as unperfect substitute for perfect ibis :) - it has its own original using signature, because of psychologically higher level of unlocked free movements. With gimbal I'm still aware of instrument and I'm still greatly depending of its dictating rules and positioning limitations. IBIS is far more to the serve of free gestures, some sort of shooting calligraphy. Of course, to my feeling and eye, which are so often prone to be in mistake 

I agree completely.  IBIS is something that people who don't need it don't understand the value in.  That's like everything in a sense, we don't appreciate what we don't use or don't need.

For me, IBIS provides a nice level of camera movement.  If you hand-hold a camera it's ok for action scenes, but too jerky for anything else and just screams "8mm home video".  Something like a shoulder rig gives a nice level of motion, the extra size eliminates the hand-shake but keeps the human movement, especially when paired with IS in a lens.  More stable than that are the glide cams which are very smooth, but @KnightsFan is right in saying they're still intuitive and can still have that human movement.  Gimbals are very difficult to control to let that human movement through, but I think part of the difficulty with them is that they let basically no changes to where the camera is pointing but still let through all of the changes in where the camera is positioned, and the combination looks odd.

You're absolutely right that it allows something new.  We used to have glide cams or shoulder-rigs to give that level of movement, we also used to have rigs that were very fast to setup and use which allowed spontaneity and life to blossom in front of the camera easily, and we also used to have small setups that you could take into places that don't allow professional filming. 
IBIS brings these three together in a way that we never had before, and for me that's what creates new creative possibilities.  You can use the size and speed to allow filming in situations where there wouldn't have been time, or to allow more movement that would have been very difficult before.  Shooting calligraphy is a beautiful way of saying it, another might be to have a dance between the subject and the camera.

I am attempting to make videos of my family (who don't re-do things and I'm not going to ask them to) in places where there is no professional shooting allowed and I'm carrying around the camera all day, and I want the end results to be as beautiful as I can make them, which hand-shake completely destroys IMHO.  IBIS is what allows me to shoot in places and not get told off or asked to leave.

6 hours ago, KnightsFan said:

I often use a Glidecam. I once used an electronic gimbal and hated it for this reason. It was so difficult to smoothly and accurately pan/tilt, and I couldn't lower the handle too much or the camera hit the motor on the back. And forget canted angles--If there was a way, it was buried in the app. With the glidecam, all movement is a direct, 0 latency result of me aiming the camera. It provides the tactile feedback of a fully mechanical system, like handheld. If I pan too far, I feel it between my fingers before I see it on the monitor. As far as freedom of movement, I find mechanical gimbals to be a lot closer to handheld than electronic gimbals.

I suspect they will get better, and may incorporate additional features that make this easier in the future.  For example, if there was a little camera looking at you scanning your face and you could steer the direction of the camera by angling your head, like those separate controllers do when you tilt or rotate them now.  This would be very intuitive because I know that when I'm watching something and I want the camera to look somewhere else at something off-screen I move my head by instinct as if trying to get the camera to move.