Canon's future: EF or RF?

[Kisaha]

10 minutes ago, Mokara said:

They will stop designing new EF lenses within a few years though, if it has not already happened. What is the point in developing new lenses for an obsolete system that is going to cease to be available on new camera designs going forward (excluding those bodies already designed and not yet released yet of course).

So? There will be 140 to 150.000.000 lenses to play with! Add dozens of millions from other manufacturers, and we are talking for hundreds of millions of EF lenses! The number must be really staggering!

Like @BTM_Pix mentioned before, do not see Canon, or anyone at that matter, reach these numbers ever again.

[DBounce]

1 hour ago, Snowbro said:

There are mountains of threads on the freezing & banding problems, the ones with proof usually get deleted on dpreview. You wont have colored banding in every shot, it's usually in backlit scenarios. Your camera probably has exhibited the freezing, but you might have not noticed. It will stop auto focusing during video, you can usually see this from everything (info) on the screen vanishing, but the AF box. It's not focusing when this happens, but it still records, imagine how bad this can be after a shoot if you didnt realize it happened. 

I had two copies, 4 months apart. It seems nearly impossible from a statistical perspective, to have two lemons if their quality control is like their normal Canon QC. 

Trust me when I tell you something like that would not have gone unnoticed by me. I’m very critical of my gear. Freezing AF would have immediately been picked up. There are thousands of these cameras in the market right now. Can’t say I’m seeing any videos describing these issues. 

I’m thinking your were defective.

[Snowbro]

I've seen at least a dozen threads on it posted to dpreview, they all have gotten deleted. 

[Snowbro]

I do have to say; the eos r seems like an ideal travel camera when paired with that new 24-70mm f/2.8 IS. Canon knows about the freezing problems, I expect them to fix it in the upcoming firmware update. That just leaves the high RS, 1.75x cropped 4k. I think the 1080p looks fine, I do wish that it was 4:2:2 though like the 1DX. There is something about 1080p that makes foliage look muddy. I have to use 4k in the mountains, but I use 1080p for more urban settings sometimes. 

[Kisaha]

9 hours ago, Snowbro said:

I do have to say; the eos r seems like an ideal travel camera when paired with that new 24-70mm f/2.8 IS. Canon knows about the freezing problems, I expect them to fix it in the upcoming firmware update. That just leaves the high RS, 1.75x cropped 4k. I think the 1080p looks fine, I do wish that it was 4:2:2 though like the 1DX. There is something about 1080p that makes foliage look muddy. I have to use 4k in the mountains, but I use 1080p for more urban settings sometimes. 

All modern mirrorless cameras are "ideal" for travels, especially with the modern 24-105mm and high ISO capabilities and less/no crop (even my NX have less crop), why is this special?

[Snowbro]

26 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

why is this special?

You aren't special

[jgharding]

It will all go RF and they'll want everyone to re-buy all their lenses again, would be my guess, so they'll put some kind of benefit in RF that you cannot have with an EF adaptor.

They're so obsessed with selling IS as a lens feature that they're miles behind in terms of things like sensor stabilisation though

[thebrothersthre3]

I do like IS, seems better than IBIS on most systems at least for panning.

[KnightsFan]

I hope they go all RF, then maybe the used market will get flooded with cheap second hand EF lenses.

[kaylee]

hey... i just had an idea...!

u kno what canon should do? what if they brought out a REALLY GREAT CAMERA to GO WITH THESE NEW LENSES

WOW THAT WOULD BE NEAT

[currensheldon]

I've been hopeful for the past three years, but I really am excited for Canon's 2019. The EOS R was seen as a disappointment, but I'm actually really enjoying it - and really looking forward to that variable ND adapter. That is going to be a huge game changer. Plus the robust bit-rate in the codec and the 10-bit 422 out and the beautiful Canon image, it's weird to me that people are hating on it as much as they are (4K crop does suck for sure). 

To really go after it, Canon needs to put out a $5k-6k cinema camera that is small, lightweight, and (A MUST) includes 4K 10-bit 422 with the RF Mount. I realize this would hurt C300II sales, but looks like they'll be releasing a C300 Mark III soon as well (and they can pump that full of 6k-8k, high frame rates, internal raw, etc to differentiate). I have a feeling they won't give us the 10-bit 4K that many places require now (many places are following Netflix's lead and even independent docs want to make sure they're shooting with Netflix standards just in case...), but they are really hurting themselves not doing it.

I get the mini crippling of DSLRs and mirrorless cameras. But they are losing a lot of shoots to the FS7 and EVA-1 because the C200 isn't an "approved" camera for a lot of even low budget films. And then, as a result, losing mirrorless sales to Sony and Panasonic because people want to match their A-Cam to their B-Cam. In my opinion, pound for pound, the C200 and C300 put out the best image (by a pretty large margin) of any camera under $10k.

Looking forward to NAB 2019. If Canon can come out with what would be a 10-bit 4K version of the C100, I think they would do really well. Here's hoping. 

 

[KnightsFan]

2 hours ago, kaylee said:

hey... i just had an idea...!

u kno what canon should do? what if they brought out a REALLY GREAT CAMERA to GO WITH THESE NEW LENSES

WOW THAT WOULD BE NEAT

That's the funny thing. EF lenses were universal, so even if Canon didn't make great bodies, people still bought EF lenses. In the past 4 years, the vast majority of lenses that I've used--mine, friends', borrowed--have been EF. I've used them on Samsung, Blackmagic, Fuji, Panasonic, Sony, and even on a handful of Canon bodies. Despite never owning a Canon camera, I saw the EF format as a good investment. RF won't have that status.

How many people think that RF is superior, compared to a mirrorless EF camera with that vari-ND adapter built in? They could have updated the lens communication protocol to allow for that extra ring on the lens, while maintaining EF compatibility.

[kaylee]

i completely agree. i thought that was what was taking so long – getting these new bodies to work natively with ef lenses ~as well as~ their new fancy ones

to be fair, im a huge critic of design

i own an Apple Pencil™ which needs a 1" white plastic adapter in order to be able to charge, an adapter which you store nowhere. likewise with the cap that you have to take off to do so, you lose that too

 

 

[noone]

4 hours ago, currensheldon said:

 it's weird to me that people are hating on it as much as they are (4K crop does suck for sure). 

 

 

I do think that alone is a major reason many are hating on it.       I am too poor these days to afford anything but if I wanted a 4k camera, what Canon camera currently could I use this lens on to shoot 4k at 17mm FF angle of view?    I can use other brands FF or even use sub FF cameras with focal reducers from lots of makers but from Canon?       It will be some time before Canon has a full complement of RF lenses and even then many EF mount lenses will work just fine with adapters.

[thebrothersthre3]

The crop is definitely the biggest reason I think. People would still hate but it would be less. 

[KnightsFan]

I dont know if anyone would seriously hate the eos r if it didnt crop. You get trolls and such in any case, but most people would forgive slightly lower frame rates and bit rates in exchange for reliability and great color, as they have been for years with canon. But the crop is an actual dealbreaker for a lot of people, and moreover it is just so silly. Its not like having poor autofocus, which is still evolving and pushing forward with competing technologies and software. Its a simple concept of having 60% of the sensor taking up dead space when shooting 4k. It would be like if blackmagic put that 5in screen on their camera, but only the middle 3in worked while shooting.

Is canon somehow the only major camera manufacturer who has not discovered the technology to make full frame 4k? Its hard to imagine, but the equally perplexing alternative is they slapped thousands of people in the face by witholding it.

[IronFilm]

On 2/9/2019 at 2:06 AM, Trek of Joy said:

The EOS-M mount seems to be the odd-man-out and probably won't see anything by the way of new lenses going forward. I wouldn't be surprised if we see a M->RF adapter at some point.

I do agree EOS-M is a dead end, but I doubt we'll see a M to RF adapter

[Django]

3 hours ago, KnightsFan said:

Is canon somehow the only major camera manufacturer who has not discovered the technology to make full frame 4k? Its hard to imagine, but the equally perplexing alternative is they slapped thousands of people in the face by witholding it.

Canon is the only major camera manufacturer that still develops its own sensors in-house. Just about every other camera brand goes to Sony, who have cutting-edge sensor technology.

So yes, Canon are behind in sensor tech which explains the recycling of old sensors in their current mirrorless cameras.

They have acknowledged the 4K crop limitation and are said to be actively working on it. 

We’re all hoping the new sensors will appear on the upcoming pro model later this year (1DX2 already being the Canon camera with the least crop & RS in 4K).

[IronFilm]

On 2/9/2019 at 10:04 AM, Snowbro said:

I've seen at least a dozen threads on it posted to dpreview, they all have gotten deleted. 

Why are they getting deleted???? :-o

Because it will harm Amazon sales?? (but people would just buy something else anyway)

[currensheldon]

8 hours ago, noone said:

I do think that alone is a major reason many are hating on it.       I am too poor these days to afford anything but if I wanted a 4k camera, what Canon camera currently could I use this lens on to shoot 4k at 17mm FF angle of view?    I can use other brands FF or even use sub FF cameras with focal reducers from lots of makers but from Canon?       It will be some time before Canon has a full complement of RF lenses and even then many EF mount lenses will work just fine with adapters.

For sure - the 4K crop is by far the worst part of the camera. But it still has a much better image quality (in ALL-I) than almost any other mirrorless camera in my opinion. For what I do, I don't do a ton of wide angle shots, so it doesn't bother me too, too much. But hopefully they can figure it out soon with a more pro-model. I'd even take a 10-12 megapixel camera if it gives me full frame 4k 60fps (since I can also use the higher megapixel EOS R for stills). 

Maybe they are actually incapable of pulling it off or maybe they're trying to protect their higher end cinema line. What Canon (and everyone else) needs to understand is that video folks often buy mirrorless cameras for their size - so just give us some smaller, high-end cinema cameras (with NDs and mini-XLRs)! It can be twice the size of an EOS R, but that would still mean it would be would be waaayyyyy smaller than a C200 (their smallest 4K cinema camera). I'd love a B-Cam that is video focused that could easily fit on a Ronin-S. Again, a Super35mm XC-style ILC system would be great. No idea if that will happen.