Finally 10-bit Video on a Smartphone?

[sanveer]

Samsung, Twentieth Century Fox and Panasonic created the HDR10+ format and unlike Dolby's (which seems more promising), it seems to be created for greater adoption (starting with the pricing). Last year Samsung got many other partners ro adopt the standard INCLUDING Qualcomm. Which would mean broader integration with other smartphones using Snapdragon's SoCs. 

https://www.whathifi.com/amp/advice/hdr10-everything-you-need-to-know

 

 

In one of the data sheets of the Samsung S10 Series to be introduced (obtained by XDADeveloper.com), it appears that a mention of HDR10+ (for recording as well as playback) seems to be mentioned. Which means that Samsung seems to be the first Smartphone manufacturer who is bringing 10-bit video recording capability to a smartphone. The LG V30 stated it too, very ambiguously, but that was rubbish. This is genuinely huge. It was going to happen since some smartphones image sensors can do 12-bit at upto 60fps, but there must be issues with the processor (specifically to do with Combining HDR AND 10-bit, since it would be a waste to have it without enough dynamic range). Strangely Apple didn't implement it first, especially considering how much they have about their processing power. Hopefully Samsung iron out the compatibility issues with playback (on devices that do not have HDR10+). 

 

https://www.xda-developers.com/samsung-galaxy-s10-may-have-hdr10-video-recording-1080p-super-slow-motion-best-shot-and-more/amp/

 

[Lars Steenhoff]

Nice!

 

About Apple...

They had 10 bit support in ios 11, I could transfer 10 bit h265 from a fuji xt3 with the apple sd card reader at usb 3 speeds to the ipad.  

And I could edit in lumafusion

in ios 12 all we get is a red error x on top if the file and it won't transfer.

And with no way to go back to ios 11, we are stuck at 8 bit files.

I hope apple will allow this in a future ios update.

 And pressure from samsung for 10 bit will  hopefull help that

 

[buggz]

While I use, and enjoy Filmic Pro on my S7, I read many sites that say Samsung continues to block 3rd party access to the full features of the camera API.

I may jump ship, when the true 5G phones come out...

 

[sanveer]

6 hours ago, Lars Steenhoff said:

Nice!

 

About Apple...

They had 10 bit support in ios 11, I could transfer 10 bit h265 from a fuji xt3 with the apple sd card reader at usb 3 speeds to the ipad.  

And I could edit in lumafusion

in ios 12 all we get is a red error x on top if the file and it won't transfer.

And with no way to go back to ios 11, we are stuck at 8 bit files.

I hope apple will allow this in a future ios update.

 And pressure from samsung for 10 bit will  hopefull help that

 

That's interesting. I had heard of lumafusion but don't actually know anyone who edits on it. All the online reviews seem to be very positive. I hope someone makes something like that for Android. 

I wish there were like 10-15 inch Android tablets that had decent video editing capabilities (I was hoping Samsung make a tablet for video and photo editing professionally) with enough RAM (and a good gpu). My problem with iPhones has always been not having enough storage, no SD card and the iCloud being a joke. Plus cloud isn't accessible from most places that don't have access to 4G speeds, because you could spend forever uploading content.

 

 

4 hours ago, buggz said:

While I use, and enjoy Filmic Pro on my S7, I read many sites that say Samsung continues to block 3rd party access to the full features of the camera API.

I may jump ship, when the true 5G phones come out...

 

Yes, Cinema 4k, Open Camera and all video shooting apps only have a resolution of QuadHD (instead of Ultra HD), because the Samsung API is not fully open. Also things like 4k 60p and high frame rate are not features that these Apps have access to, either.

 

Hopefully video quality on smartphones is finally great (that Filmic Pro Log V2 on the the new iPhones looks promising too). Sony smartphones have had HLG (and h265 for a while) but I don't know how good or bad it is. 

[Snowbro]

Confirmed that the S10 can record in h.254 10-bit HDR. I does a great job actually, only downside is you don't have that great of manual controls; pro video mode is gone. 

[kye]

Apple are either absolutely cutting edge or are late adopters.  They go very early with the tech they want to push their user experience into (removing ports for example) but for the rest they let android market test other features and if they work in the market then they catch up (third party keyboards).

I'm more surprised they ever had 10-bit video rather than them not having it now.

[sanveer]

2 hours ago, Snowbro said:

Confirmed that the S10 can record in h.254 10-bit HDR. I does a great job actually, only downside is you don't have that great of manual controls; pro video mode is gone. 

Also, apparently, the bitrate isn't very high. I hope Samsung allow for a few bitrate options as well as complete manual control over video. 

[Snowbro]

3 hours ago, sanveer said:

Also, apparently, the bitrate isn't very high. I hope Samsung allow for a few bitrate options as well as complete manual control over video. 

Yeah, it doesn't take up much space, which I actually realized I prefer on a phone for vacation. I didnt see the video fall apart anywhere & it looked very good. 

I will post some samples when I get time. I heard you can convert it to HLG for YT, but I'll have to look into that. 

[stephen]

Cinema 4K is fully supported and working on Samsung Galaxy S10+. Camera 2 API checker application shows full support which was kind of a problem with previous Galaxies. High bit rate and flat profiles are available trough Cinema 4K and other applications. Quality of the video is quite good IMHO.

Filmic Pro checker reports everything is supported even log profile, including 1080p@240FPS and Cinematographer Kit with 4K@30 FPS with log profile, the only exception being 4K@60p and maybe Log v2 profile which as far as I understand is only working on some iPhone models (Apple A12 CPU required). 

Keep in mind that in Europe Samsung Galaxy 10/10+ smartphones come with Exynos 9820 CPU, which according to Filmic Pro they can hack to support better their application. The version with Qualcomm CPU doesn't offer this support. At least that was the case with Galaxy S9.

https://filmicpro.helpscoutdocs.com/article/41-samsung-s9-and-s9-filmic-pro-v6-compatibility-guide 

Optical stabilization is quite good. 

Basically this is the second best smartphone to buy for video after iPhone XS and XS Max. 

[Lintfilms]

Both the LG v40 ThinQ and LG v50 ThinQ have HDR10 video recording in their native camera app I can report. I suspect that the LG G7 and LG G8 may have this as well. I know from personal experience with the v40 and v50 that they have 10 Bit 4:2:0 HDR10 using HEVC 265 codecs. It is only available on the main rear facing camera, but the files from my v50 read BT.2020 in MediaInfo and they are 4:2:0 10 Bit HEVC in an MP4 container. It also records 8 Bit 4:2:0 SDR in H.264 in the MP4 container. Of course being a phone even when you set a standard frame rate like 24, 30, 50, or 60 it is VFR and you need to use FFMpeg or Compressor to convert it to a constant frame rate and maintain the Rec.2020 ColorSpace for post production in a ProRes or DnX file if you are shooting dual system audio to prevent drift. If you use Resolve as your editing and color grading software it doesn't play well with VFR or HEVC, so figuring out the command line inputs for FFMpeg will be your challenge, or you will get it into a Mac with Compressor and make your life easier.

 

You have manual shutter, manual white balance, manual ISO, manual focus, and manual audio controls on the LG native app as well. LG's native app and the HDR10 make it the top of the line for mobile video in my humble opinion. The one weak point is that at 4K UHD it is only recording 52 Mbps in 24p. It will shoot up to 60 fps in UHD. I believe it maxes out at 80 Mbps in 4K 60p.

 

You can record to a microSDXC card as well as internally. Finding a card that can record at rates over 100 Mbps is obviously a challenge, so the limitation isn't the worst thing.

My biggest complaint is that there is no front facing 4K camera on the phone. My next biggest complaint is a lack of manual controls for the telephoto lens. After that my complaint would be a need for a way to set automated focus pulls and automated zooms within the native camera app. My final complaint would be that the HDR10 is limited to the main camera and is not available on the wide or telephoto lens. Actually no manual controls for the front facing camera and the telephoto are probably my biggest complaint.

 

You can correct the lack of manual controls for the front facing app with the Open Camera App, but it limits true manual control to just 30 fps. The Open Camera app also lacks HDR10 controls for the main camera.

 

I suspect that Filmic Pro addresses the frame rate issue that Open Camera has this far missed. I don't know if it makes use of the HDR10 features of the LG cameras.