Black Magic Pocket OG 2019

[Jim Giberti]

Yeah, this can't be overstated.

All of the critical differences mentioned in discussions are in blown up stills.

Actual running footage, let alone footage compressed for broadcast and web delivery, is simply indistinguisable to a viewer. Period.

I did a blind test with a few people at different times in the studio the other day and the responses were exactly what I expected - "What difference am I supposed to see...they all look the same" kind of stuff.

What people should be talking about is how "organic" and "film like" Braw and Gen 4 processed in Resolve actually look. It's sort of the Holy Grail that so many people have been looking for.

4k, raw, detail, file size, smooth roll off in shadows and highlights, deep accurate colors, ease of editing.

The only people still debating the issue aren't the ones shooting with the new cameras and codecs. The debate is over for all of them/us.

 

[thebrothersthre3]

1 hour ago, graphicnatured said:

It's funny the same people who complain about detail loss say the 4k image is too sharp. I'm not one to pixel peep everything I shoot, but I'm not noticing a massive difference from DNG to BRAW on mine. If it's there it surely isn't enough to be of any concern. Not even with green screen, at least in my use.

I'd imagine 12 bit is going to be plenty for greenscreen regardless. 

I don't really get the complaints on sharpness. As long as its not in camera sharpening (aka GH5) which its not, how could it be a bad thing. The complaints I have heard were about noise reduction.

[graphicnatured]

10 hours ago, Jim Giberti said:

Yeah, this can't be overstated.

All of the critical differences mentioned in discussions are in blown up stills.

Actual running footage, let alone footage compressed for broadcast and web delivery, is simply indistinguisable to a viewer. Period.

I did a blind test with a few people at different times in the studio the other day and the responses were exactly what I expected - "What difference am I supposed to see...they all look the same" kind of stuff.

What people should be talking about is how "organic" and "film like" Braw and Gen 4 processed in Resolve actually look. It's sort of the Holy Grail that so many people have been looking for.

4k, raw, detail, file size, smooth roll off in shadows and highlights, deep accurate colors, ease of editing.

The only people still debating the issue aren't the ones shooting with the new cameras and codecs. The debate is over for all of them/us.

 

I'm looking forward to testing BRAW with all my lenses now that some huge projects are over. 

[thebrothersthre3]

Its making me want to get a Pocket 4k really bad haha, or an URSA mini for that matter. 

[IronFilm]

Maybe this thread should now be renamed to "OG BMPCC in 2020!" 

Here is a brand new post from Noam Kroll:

Why I Am Revisiting Blackmagic’s Original (1080p) Pocket Cinema Camera

https://noamkroll.com/why-i-am-revisiting-blackmagics-original-1080p-pocket-cinema-camera/

Quote

Sometimes the best camera for the job is the one you already own… Even if it’s 6 years old, only shoots 1080p and has since been replaced by newer iterations.

I have long been a huge fan of the Super 16 look, and there were only really ever two cameras that could scratch that itch: The Digital Bolex and Blackmagic’s original Pocket Cinema Camera.

Unlike virtually every other cinema camera out there, the Digital Bolex and Pocket Camera never chased the large sensor trend. Instead, their aim was to deliver gorgeous cinematic images with a smaller (but also more adaptable) Super 16mm sized sensor.

For filmmakers like myself who love 16mm film, this was a dream.

I’ve shot multiple projects on both the Digital Bolex and Pocket Camera and have always been blown away by the results. Both cameras (in large part due to their fantastic sensors) deliver really organic/filmic images, with a depth of field and FOV consistent with true 16mm motion picture film.

Unfortunately, both cameras are no longer in production.

Digital Bolex of course shut down years ago and Blackmagic has since released updated Pocket Cameras – in 4K and 6K flavors – which make huge technical improvements, but no longer feature a true 16mm sensor.

So as of right now in 2020, there are no new cinema cameras being manufactured that have native 16mm sensors. And that is really a shame!

As a workaround, you can shoot in a Super 16mm (equivalent) crop mode on an Arri or RED camera, but that just solves the aesthetic issue. The other consideration is practicality. 

Back in the film days, the reason 16mm was so enticing was because of the freedom it created. The cameras were smaller, lighter and more mobile. They could be used in a wider variety of shooting scenarios, and were more conducive to indie filmmakers – including those shooting guerrilla style.

This is why 16mm was so pivotal in the French New Wave movement, and in the birth of independent filmmaking more broadly.

The original Blackmagic Pocket Camera really called back that indie spirit. It wasn’t just about the image quality, but also the creative freedom that a small form factor brought to the table. 

So while Arri & RED may help cover your bases aesthetically by offering a 16mm crop, they won’t help you reduce your footprint (or your budget) in the same way.

Currently, I have a feature film in development that I aim to shoot on Super 16mm motion picture film. This is something I’ve wanted to do for a long time, but haven’t really been able to pull the trigger until now.

The film will require some run and gun insert shots that will be filmed guerrilla style on location. For many of these shots, it won’t be practical (or even possible) to shoot with my Arri SRII, so I’ll likely need to supplement the production with some digital footage. 

Ultimately this need is what has driven me back to the original Blackmagic Pocket Camera. It’s the most obvious solution for my needs, despite the camera’s age and technical limitations.

Blackmagic’s newer 4K/6K pocket cameras were certainly viable contenders as well, but there’s something about the organic look of the original Blackmagic Pocket Camera that I keep coming back to. 

 

[BTM_Pix]

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

Maybe this thread should now be renamed to "OG BMPCC in 2020!" 

Here is a brand new post from Noam Kroll:

Why I Am Revisiting Blackmagic’s Original (1080p) Pocket Cinema Camera

https://noamkroll.com/why-i-am-revisiting-blackmagics-original-1080p-pocket-cinema-camera/

 

I don't disagree with the article but to be fair to the Pocket4K, it does now have a Super16 mode albeit within a much bigger form factor.

 

[Cinegain]

I sold my BMPCC4K. I kept my 2 OG BMPCCs.

[rawshooter]

The Super 16 crop mode on the Pocket 4K is IMHO superior to the original Pocket, because it is in 2.7K which yields very clean downsampled 2K/1080p, as opposed to the moiré-plagued and IR pollution-prone image of the original Pocket, and because of the camera's dual gain sensor and dramatically better low light performance.

Plus better codec (IMHO), much better battery life and much better display.

[Mr. Freeze]

2 hours ago, Cinegain said:

I sold my BMPCC4K. I kept my 2 OG BMPCCs.

I kept the 4K and still use my OG BMPCC from time to time. 

After BRAW and the latest Firmware-Update the 4K really shines and I like the 4k 2.39:1 Mode and the better 120fps a lot.

That being said, the OG Pocket is still an awesome little cinema camera. You have to know its limitations (Moiré, no 3:1 Raw, Battery...) but can still create beautiful footage.

[MurtlandPhoto]

I'll be using my OG Pocket for a big (for me) corporate shoot this weekend. It still consistently can deliver the goods.

[mercer]

17 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

don't disagree with the article but to be fair to the Pocket4K, it does now have a Super16 mode albeit within a much bigger form factor.

I was surprised he didn't even mention the S16 crop mode of the P4K but after thinking about it, his post was born from his plan to shoot his next film on S16 film and needing an inconspicuous B-Cam. And although the P4K's image has grown on me, I still prefer the organic, filmic look of the BMPCC and BMMCC and since he is looking for a S16 sized sensor, to intercut with S16mm film, the P4K, even in crop mode, doesn't really fit his criteria.

I've contemplated selling my BMMCC and buying the P4K, but there is just something special about that original Fairchild sensor. Plus I am patiently waiting for you to create some kind of ingenious accessory for it.

[BTM_Pix]

7 hours ago, mercer said:

 

I've contemplated selling my BMMCC and buying the P4K, but there is just something special about that original Fairchild sensor. Plus I am patiently waiting for you to create some kind of ingenious accessory for it.

Was the genius of the 4 channel assignable rotary pots to control aperture,ISO,WB and focus for £15 not enough for you then ?

Give me an idea of what you would want to control and how (ie pots, sliders or switches) and I'll see what I can do.

Its quite lo fi to do something for it so as long as you don't mind soldering a few wires it won't be too daunting.

[mercer]

9 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Was the genius of the 4 channel assignable rotary pots to control aperture,ISO,WB and focus for £15 not enough for you then ?

Give me an idea of what you would want to control and how (ie pots, sliders or switches) and I'll see what I can do.

Its quite lo fi to do something for it so as long as you don't mind soldering a few wires it won't be too daunting.

Honestly, I forgot about that controller. I am mechanically minded, but I'd prefer not to tinker with equipment. I've found it becomes about the tinkering instead of the shooting, for me.

With that said, I am looking to make the Micro into a tiny "cine-corder" so I would love a right-handed handle that works off of Lanc, with a simple and direct Lanc connector into the port. I'd like it to be able to control record, zoom and one touch AF if I have a native lens attached... most likely the 12-35mm and/or one of their PZ lenses.

With that said, I'm still tossing around the idea of selling it and trying out the P4K for the new modes (S16mm and 2:40) ... the free Resolve upgrade ... and your AF controller with the Panny 12-35mm or one of the Canon IS primes... most likely the 24mm.

[BTM_Pix]

1 hour ago, mercer said:

Honestly, I forgot about that controller. I am mechanically minded, but I'd prefer not to tinker with equipment. I've found it becomes about the tinkering instead of the shooting, for me.

With that said, I am looking to make the Micro into a tiny "cine-corder" so I would love a right-handed handle that works off of Lanc, with a simple and direct Lanc connector into the port. I'd like it to be able to control record, zoom and one touch AF if I have a native lens attached... most likely the 12-35mm and/or one of their PZ lenses.

With that said, I'm still tossing around the idea of selling it and trying out the P4K for the new modes (S16mm and 2:40) ... the free Resolve upgrade ... and your AF controller with the Panny 12-35mm or one of the Canon IS primes... most likely the 24mm.

This from VariZoom might fit the bill for your LANC needs as it has all the functions you are looking for and is small enough to mount on most things.

https://www.varizoom.com/product/vzstealthlx/

I'm not 100% certain of how much of that is supported by Blackmagic's LANC implementation on the BMMCC but I'd say it was worth asking VariZoom about it as I'm sure they'll know.

[mercer]

39 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

I'm not 100% certain of how much of that is supported by Blackmagic's LANC implementation on the BMMCC but I'd say it was worth asking VariZoom about it as I'm sure they'll know.

Thanks, I've seen some Varizoom Lanc controllers but I think I just need to bite the bullet and buy the Ursa Hand Grip because that really has the simplicity I'm looking for. That paired with the BMPCC Speedbooster and the Canon 17-55mm seems like a great minimalist handheld set up.

The problem with that setup is that the total cost would put me in the P4K price range and I'm unsure if it's a wise investment at that point and I don't know if the total size would be much smaller...

OT - Do you know of any good 12-75mm c-mount lenses that cover the S16 sensor of the OG or the P4K crop mode? I have the Cosmicar but it vignettes heavily as I believe it's designed for 1/2in sensors. It was a beautiful little parfocal lens with the EOS-M in ML crop mode though.

I'll probably just use my 5D3 for another few years... LOL. Seriously though, I think I can't conceive shooting in anything less than native full frame raw/ProRes.

Completely OT - I don't know if I ever thanked you for turning me onto Samyang lenses, but the 50mm 1.4 continues to amaze me on my 5D3...

So cheers...

for continuing to be one of the most helpful members on this forum!!!

[BTM_Pix]

30 minutes ago, mercer said:

OT - Do you know of any good 12-75mm c-mount lenses that cover the S16 sensor of the OG or the P4K crop mode? I have the Cosmicar but it vignettes heavily as I believe it's designed for 1/2in sensors. It was a beautiful little parfocal lens with the EOS-M in ML crop mode though.

 

I don't have any direct personal experience of them but I these two Canon ones do get full coverage albeit at a reduced short end.

 

[kye]

Stupid questions:

Does the BMPCC have any kind of auto-controls, like auto WB, and auto SS for exposure?  
and what is the limit of its SS (do you NEED an ND or can it go down to a small enough exposure time)?

I am having mischievous thoughts..

[Mr. Freeze]

6 hours ago, kye said:

Does the BMPCC have any kind of auto-controls, like auto WB, and auto SS for exposure?  
and what is the limit of its SS (do you NEED an ND or can it go down to a small enough exposure time)?

It has Auto-Iris (like the BMCC, a basic exposure help).

The rest (Iso, WB, Shutter Angle...) you have to change yourself.

Shutter Angle goes in steps from 11.25° up to 360°.

[MurtlandPhoto]

I used my P4K and OG Pocket together over the weekend. I used the Super Scale feature in Resolve to bring the OG's footage up to 4K. It's not quite as detailed, but can easily intercut with true 4K stuff in the eyes of the client. Very happy with the results.