The Nikon Z6 will be the firat consumer camera to output 12 bit video

[liork]

What do you think, will it bring a real change in grading for us? Nikon confirmed that it will be 12 bit output through HDMI:

https://***URL removed***/news/2961478322/nikon-announces-development-of-new-firmware-for-z6-and-z7

[Mako Sports]

With the EOS RP announcement and 6 New RF lenses. Nikon will have to go into complete and total overdrive to stay relevant. A new 24 70 2.8 and $6000 50mm MF lenses simply isn't enough. 

[mat33]

I think offering full frame (no crop) 12 bit raw video on a US$2000 hybrid body pretty much meets the definition of going into complete and total overdrive.

[Geoff_L]

29 minutes ago, mat33 said:

I think offering full frame (no crop) 12 bit raw video on a US$2000 hybrid body pretty much meets the definition of going into complete and total overdrive.

Agree, exatly my thoughts. They give us that, while everybody express, one more time, its disappointment concerning canon newest release...

Announcing a lot of lenses and disappointed cameras may appears relevant for some... But for me, the firmware updates announced by Nikon, the existing Nikkor lenses lineup, the coming adapted possibilites (the sony to Z, canon ef to z, leica etc.) plus the new S lenses are more than what I need, thus highly relevant !

[DBounce]

I personally think it's great. It sends a message that Canon will hear. And that will force a response. But that said, I prefer the Canon imagery which is why I parted with the Nikon. There is mojo to the Canon image that the Nikon lacks. I'm not saying the Canon is better... In fact on paper it's greatly inferior. But art cares not about spec sheets.

[thebrothersthre3]

Just now, DBounce said:

I personally think it's great. It sends a message that Canon will hear. And that will force a response. But that said, I prefer the Canon imagery which is why I parted with the Nikon. There is mojo to the Canon image that the Nikon lacks. I'm not saying the Canon is better... In fact on paper it's greatly inferior. But art cares not about spec sheets.

12 bit Pro Res RAW could have some mojo 

[DBounce]

3 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

12 bit Pro Res RAW could have some mojo 

I'm not saying it won't. I love to see the boundaries pushed. But there is more to the image than just color... motion cadence is perhaps even more important for video. It's hard to pin down. But having had both cameras side by side for two months and doing exhaustive test of both systems... I can tell you that the Canon just looked more cinematic. In both motion and imagery overall. Yes the Nikon was more detailed. Yes the Nikon had less noise at higher ISOs. But regardless of that, the output from the Canon just plain looked better. I hated parting with the NIkon Z6... because I knew it was better from a technology standpoint. But in the end I just had to accept the truth; the end results looked better from the Canon. While many complained that the Canon is soft (Imagine that... don't we always complain about over-sharpened images?), the Nikon was iMO a bit too sharp. And while I found it relatively easy to increase the sharpness of the Canon's image, I soon learned that decreasing sharpness without looking artificial proved much more challenging. And yes I turned down internal sharpening on the Nikon. There is no way I am aware of to match the organic feel of the Canon. 

So while I am happy to hear that Nikon is working on the firmware,  I knew this back when I still owned it. Personally, I don't think 12 bit color is going to make the image more organic. I don't think 12 bit image is going to change the motion cadence. It will certainly make the image more flexible in post. But then again I never felt that the Nikon lacked flexibility. The codec is not bad. And if you record externally as I did, there is ample data to bend. They are fixing something that didn't really need fixing. You'r just going to end up with bigger files.

Here's a point. Remember the huge fuss with the C200? Everyone complained that they left out 10 bit when it can shoot 12 bit raw. The problem is those 12 bit files are HUGE. This is why I mostly shoot 8 bit on my C200, unless I am shooting under challenging conditions. But in controlled lighting? I shoot 8 bit all day long.

[Andrew Reid]

Well the 5D Mark III with Magic Lantern was the first to output 14bit video and nooooone of you are using it!!

[mercer]

This development won’t push me toward a Z6 purchase because I don’t like external recorders but I am glad to hear that Nikon is also offering a 1080p Raw output. It will make a great camera for a lot of shooters. Of course, I predict a lot of event shooters and cat shooters will shoot Raw just because...

[thebrothersthre3]

13 minutes ago, DBounce said:

I'm not saying it won't. I love to see the boundaries pushed. But there is more to the image than just color... motion cadence is perhaps even more important for video. It's hard to pin down. But having had both cameras side by side for two months and doing exhaustive test of both systems... I can tell you that the Canon just looked more cinematic. In both motion and imagery overall. Yes the Nikon was more detailed. Yes the Nikon had less noise at higher ISOs. But regardless of that, the output from the Canon just plain looked better. I hated parting with the NIkon Z6... because I knew it was better from a technology standpoint. But in the end I just had to accept the truth; the end results looked better from the Canon. While many complained that the Canon is soft (Imagine that... don't we always complain about over-sharpened images?), the Nikon was iMO a bit too sharp. And while I found it relatively easy to increase the sharpness of the Canon's image, I soon learned that decreasing sharpness without looking artificial proved much more challenging. And yes I turned down internal sharpening on the Nikon. There is no way I am aware of to match the organic feel of the Canon. 

So while I am happy to hear that Nikon is working on the firmware,  I knew this back when I still owned it. Personally, I don't think 12 bit color is going to make the image more organic. I don't think 12 bit image is going to change the motion cadence. It will certainly make the image more flexible in post. But then again I never felt that the Nikon lacked flexibility. The codec is not bad. And if you record externally as I did, there is ample data to bend. They are fixing something that didn't really need fixing. You'r just going to end up with bigger files.

Here's a point. Remember the huge fuss with the C200? Everyone complained that they left out 10 bit when it can shoot 12 bit raw. The problem is those 12 bit files are HUGE. This is why I mostly shoot 8 bit on my C200, unless I am shooting under challenging conditions. But in controlled lighting? I shoot 8 bit all day long.

Yeah its one of the reasons I went with Fuji as people seem to like the motion cadence with them over Panasonic. The good thing about Prores Raw is the files sizes should be relatively small. 

 

9 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Well the 5D Mark III with Magic Lantern was the first to output 14bit video and nooooone of you are using it!!

True and I won't be using the Nikon Z6 either. That said full frame 4k 12 bit raw for $2500 is pretty cool with IBIS and a crazy low light sensor. 

[OliKMIA]

10 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Well the 5D Mark III with Magic Lantern was the first to output 14bit video and nooooone of you are using it!!

We do
But the workflow is kind of horrible. This is a great news from Nikon and hopefully Panasonic will follow. I can't wait to see the powerpoint presentation from Tony, he's going to bust to many myths about it! Finally, I can film in RAW like a real pro. Fro would be so proud of me. ?

[mercer]

10 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

True and I won't be using the Nikon Z6 either. That said full frame 4k 12 bit raw for $2500 is pretty cool with IBIS and a crazy low light sensor. 

Yes, that’s true... IBIS does add to the equation. That Raw/IBIS combo could make a great home for my 35mm 1.4 and 85mm 1.4 ai-s lenses. 

I wish Nikon had more of a timeline for when the Raw output would be released. 

[thebrothersthre3]

3 minutes ago, mercer said:

Yes, that’s true... IBIS does add to the equation. That Raw/IBIS combo could make a great home for my 35mm 1.4 and 85mm 1.4 ai-s lenses. 

I wish Nikon had more of a timeline for when the Raw output would be released. 

10 bit Nlog is probably pretty nice in the meantime. I think you've been a fan of the Nikon image in the past right? This might be a good option for you espiecally since you are a RAW enthusiast. Not that you need anything more than your 5D3 setup. 

[androidlad]

12bit sounds sensational eh? In reality 12bit linear RAW wastes too much bits in highlight causing shadow area to exhibit artifacts. In many case 10bit log actually delivers better results than 12bit linear.

[mercer]

21 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

10 bit Nlog is probably pretty nice in the meantime. I think you've been a fan of the Nikon image in the past right? This might be a good option for you espiecally since you are a RAW enthusiast. Not that you need anything more than your 5D3 setup. 

I was so quick to dismiss it because of the external recorder but I truly forgot it had IBIS. So yeah, it's something to keep an eye on. For now I'm all set but maybe in the Summer or Fall I can find one for a better price and by then, I'll be working on a different project that maybe could benefit from 4K ProRes Raw... definitely on the list. Ehh... I'll probably just stick with the 5D3.

[BTM_Pix]

2 hours ago, mercer said:

This development won’t push me toward a Z6 purchase because I don’t like external recorders.

Now that Atomos are a publicly traded company, I feel like buying a few shares so I can turn up at the shareholders meeting and shout "Why the fuck won't you make a 4K Ninja Star???"

[Patrick B.]

I’m curios about the crop factor since it’s raw data and therefore I don’t believe it can be super sampled since it’s a 1:1 pixel read. Unless they can do 6k. Jeromy did say they were shooting at 4K and higher so it’d be great to get more resolution if only to retain the same crop factor. Although not sure what kind of processing power you’d need for 5-6k. 

I second the 4K Ninja Star! Would love a smaller form factor recorder with no monitor. 

[mercer]

15 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

Now that Atomos are a publicly traded company, I feel like buying a few shares so I can turn up at the shareholders meeting and shout "Why the fuck won't you make a 4K Ninja Star???"

I was literally just wondering if I could use a ninja star for the 1080p Raw output but I assume the recorder needs to accept a Raw signal, so that will leave use with the Ninja V as the cheapest, smallest option... right?

[BTM_Pix]

2 minutes ago, mercer said:

I was literally just wondering if I could use a ninja star for the 1080p Raw output but I assume the recorder needs to accept a Raw signal, so that will leave use with the Ninja V as the cheapest, smallest option... right?

Yes the Ninja V is as compact as it gets.

The increasing number of cameras that only give the good stuff on HDMI output makes even more of a case for someone to do a new version of the Ninja Star.

Don't get me wrong, the Ninja V is a big improvement form factor wise on the 7" ones but if you look at using it with something compact like the X-T30 to get the 10 bit output then it still ends up looking like a SmartCar towing a caravan.

Maybe something might show up at NAB from Atomos or even Blackmagic updating the HyperDeck Shuttle 2 which was a more industrial (but cheaper) Ninja Star that recorded to SSD.

[mercer]

51 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

Yes the Ninja V is as compact as it gets.

The increasing number of cameras that only give the good stuff on HDMI output makes even more of a case for someone to do a new version of the Ninja Star.

Don't get me wrong, the Ninja V is a big improvement form factor wise on the 7" ones but if you look at using it with something compact like the X-T30 to get the 10 bit output then it still ends up looking like a SmartCar towing a caravan.

Maybe something might show up at NAB from Atomos or even Blackmagic updating the HyperDeck Shuttle 2 which was a more industrial (but cheaper) Ninja Star that recorded to SSD.

Yup and if the Z6 didn’t have the IBIS, it wouldn’t even be worth it to me. At that money and size, I’m starting to get into cinema camera territory.