Clearing up the utter bull**** in this Tony Northup Panasonic S1 video

[Andrew Reid]

18 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

He does make some good points sounds like the S1R high res mode is pretty useless, weird they would even include it if it performs that badly. 

How does he know it performs so badly if he's never even shot with it? Indeed how do you yourself know? You see, you have allowed yourself to be influenced by a pile of self-promoting bullshit!

12 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

"You show me the perfect camera!!"

If they'd just but the internal organs of the XT3 into the body of the XH1 with a bigger battery et voila!

Maybe next year eh...?

Indeed.

Not full frame though is it!

[thebrothersthre3]

12 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

How does he know it performs so badly if he's never even shot with it? Indeed how do you yourself know? You see, you have allowed yourself to be influenced by a pile of self-promoting bullshit!

 

Whoops forgot he hadn't shot with it, he speaks as if he has. Do you agree that the auto focus performs worse than the GH5 when you had a chance to use it Andrew?

[Andrew Reid]

Yes the AF was dodgy but it's a pre-production model and the GH5 got better with firmware updates.

What they need is to do Phase-detect Af on chip for future models.

No problems with criticising it for the Af but the other stuff is amazing and doesn't deserve to be ripped to shreds.

4K/60p Super 35mm and full frame 4K 24p 10bit is somehow not a step forward enough!?

[ade towell]

the AF looks promising from this 

 

[newfoundmass]

There was a bit that I disagreed with Tony's video about and a few things I do agree with. 

To me, the lens pricing is inexcusable regardless of Sigma's plans to release all their art lenses in the L mount and the ability to adapt. They're asking people to join a completely new ecosystem and aren't making it easy to do. Road maps are great, but you're asking me to pay $2500 for the body alone and then just as much for lenses. This is exactly the same thing most, if not all, of us faulted Sony for doing. It's insane not to think that will scare off a significant number of users. 

All the video features are nice, but the codec, the recording limits in some modes, the paid upgrades (if it's $100 like the V-log upgrade that's fine), etc. are negatives, even if they aren't deal breakers for a lot of people. 

There is very little about this camera, outside of it being full frame, that makes me want to "upgrade" from my GH5. Even if I was enticed enough by this camera I'd still hold out to see what they have in store with the GH6.

What they needed to do, to get me and a lot of others, is to have come out with a full frame GH5 and this just isn't it. I'm sure they're working on a video focused full frame camera, so we'll see how that goes.

[thebrothersthre3]

2 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

There was a bit that I disagreed with Tony's video about and a few things I do agree with. 

To me, the lens pricing is inexcusable regardless of Sigma's plans to release all their art lenses in the L mount and the ability to adapt. They're asking people to join a completely new ecosystem and aren't making it easy to do. Road maps are great, but you're asking me to pay $2500 for the body alone and then just as much for lenses. This is exactly the same thing most, if not all, of us faulted Sony for doing. It's insane not to think that will scare off a significant number of users. 

All the video features are nice, but the codec, the recording limits in some modes, the paid upgrades (if it's $100 like the V-log upgrade that's fine), etc. are negatives, even if they aren't deal breakers for a lot of people. 

There is very little about this camera, outside of it being full frame, that makes me want to "upgrade" from my GH5. Even if I was enticed enough by this camera I'd still hold out to see what they have in store with the GH6.

What they needed to do, to get me and a lot of others, is to have come out with a full frame GH5 and this just isn't it. I'm sure they're working on a video focused full frame camera, so we'll see how that goes.

I don't know it is pretty much a full frame GH5. The GH5 has low rolling shutter because its a small sensor. It also has higher bitrate for video, though the All-i on the GH5 doesn't grade any better than Long GOP and isn't any more detailed.

For me its
GH5 low rolling shutter vs S1 3 stops better ISO performance, full frame FOV, full V-log.

IBIS performance is kind of yet to be seen. 

[Video Hummus]

Just came from Tony’s Myth V Reality Canon RP addition (with a RP giveaway!!!) No crapping on anybodies dreams there. Just a relaxed hand waving and “who needs this or that” line.

Watch them side by side (S1 vs RP) and tell me this man isn’t full of a bunch of canon $100 bills.

watch for yourself if you can stomach it. You might win the turd of a camera he is giving away!

 

[thebrothersthre3]

Can't sit through that entire vid. Does he criticize it at all tho?

[Video Hummus]

6 hours ago, forofilms said:

Not a fan of Tony Northrop. But...

Huge body.

Insanely expensive lenses. 

Cropped 4K60p.

Dubious AF performance. 

Image still has the veneer of video (imho). 

Not a dud but far from the perfect camera. 

Still better than Canon R and RP. 

[tweak]

Thank you Andrew.

[anonim]

My advice for few minutes watching is to completely turn down sound and just look at Tony's hand and dancing  fingers. He sometimes does very interesting pantomime movements, sometimes even like an conductor. Combine it with innocent sugar-like mouth mimic, and you get pretty quality, live lesson "how to be suggestive speaker".

[Andrew Reid]

1 hour ago, Video Hummus said:

Just came from Tony’s Myth V Reality Canon RP addition (with a RP giveaway!!!) No crapping on anybodies dreams there. Just a relaxed hand waving and “who needs this or that” line.

And there we go.

[Castorp]

Tony Northrup is the worst. It's all about generating this or that in order to get views. It's cynical and horrible. Has nothing to do with cameras. 

[newfoundmass]

6 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

I don't know it is pretty much a full frame GH5. The GH5 has low rolling shutter because its a small sensor. It also has higher bitrate for video, though the All-i on the GH5 doesn't grade any better than Long GOP and isn't any more detailed.

For me its
GH5 low rolling shutter vs S1 3 stops better ISO performance, full frame FOV, full V-log.

IBIS performance is kind of yet to be seen. 

GH5= Higher bit rates/more bit rate options, no tax to enable 10 bit, no recording limit in 4K 60p (big deal for me), flip out screen, near perfect size, (probably) better IBIS, etc. 

I get the that right now, technologically, there may be limitations that prevent the S1 from doing all that. But it's still what I want out of a full frame camera. Things like better low light and DR don't really woo me when that's to be expected from full frame cameras in general. Add the price of the body and lenses, too, and it it just kinda turns me off. With the GH5 it honestly felt like a bargain when I factored in everything that the camera was giving me for my $2,000 and I guess the S1 just isn't giving me that feeling, especially with the paid upgrades factored in. 

[thebrothersthre3]

37 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

GH5= Higher bit rates/more bit rate options, no tax to enable 10 bit, no recording limit in 4K 60p (big deal for me), flip out screen, near perfect size, (probably) better IBIS, etc. 

I get the that right now, technologically, there may be limitations that prevent the S1 from doing all that. But it's still what I want out of a full frame camera. Things like better low light and DR don't really woo me when that's to be expected from full frame cameras in general. Add the price of the body and lenses, too, and it it just kinda turns me off. With the GH5 it honestly felt like a bargain when I factored in everything that the camera was giving me for my $2,000 and I guess the S1 just isn't giving me that feeling, especially with the paid upgrades factored in. 

That's because the GH5 is a micro 4/3rds camera though. Its got significantly better dynamic range than any SLR on the market right now. No unlimited recording in 4k 60p is a bummer though. Its a much better body than Sony has in the A7III, so I don't really mind the extra premium, I mean they went all out on the body. Of course auto focus kinda sucks, but if you are a GH5 user that shouldn't matter much. I don't really think the expensive lenses could be avoided. Adapting probably is a very affordable option. 

I get why a lot of people wouldn't want to switch to an expensive brand new system. But at least to me the S1 is probably the nicest full frame camera on the market right now for video, aside from auto focus. That said I am sticking with my Fujis. ?

If the S1 gets close to doing 13 stops with Vlog I'd be tempted, though it is a 3k system after you pay for 10bit and vlog. 

It would have been nice if they had marketed it as a video centered camera and gave it a flip screen and all. Oh well lets hope the GH6 is something great. 

[claudio_nava]

Hey Andrew, just want to say that I so much enjoy this forum and community, even I'm not so actively commenting usually. Also I sooo appreciate your dedication and hard work in maintaining the EOSHD site and community. I have the impression that you and the site are very highly appreciated in photography and especially videography communities and among professionals.

That said, I'm also a bit worried about you getting frustrated with industry politics, clickbait journalism and social media etc. I remember another incident in the past (even though not the details of it), and now this with Tony etc.  I'm sure they are real problems, but I hope you'd just leave these things unnoticed and kept up the great and highly appreciated work you are doing. I personally want to see the EOSHD site up and running and the  community prospering. I hope these red herrings (frustration with clickbait etc) don't get you unnecessarily (even though totally understandably) demotivated and unfocused.

Thanks to all of these years and I hope to see many more decades of EOSHD to come. Cheers!

[Sanka]

For anything related to filmmaking equipment, eoshd is the place I am visiting, I also like News Shooter and for photography, cameralabs is doing a great job as reviewers.

Tony & Chelsea are sitting nowhere since I had seen them, in one of their video, holding the camera body only, instead of the huge lens (600 mm  f/5.6) attached to it. Absolutely NO professional relying on their equipment to make a living would do such a destructive move.

I am working with a GH5, which is a fantastic camera, and I am using it with manual lenses (speed booster + Nikon AIS or Voigtlander) for fictional work and music video, but I feel very frustrated while shooting personal life event (running kid) or journalistic work (such as yellow vest protest in Paris with tear gas in my eyes), as the autofocus is just so bad, losing target so easily and pumping like hell. Even my Nikon D5500 I carried once did a better job in video AF! A bit slow to grab something but much more stable staying on it.

On an ENG camera (HVX200 in the past, JVC LS300 now), I do not rely on AF efficiency that much as the ergonomic make it easy to switch from AF to MF to get the best out of both system, but in a crowd of protesters and journalists potentially targeted by flashball, I prefer to use the GH5 to be more discreet and faster to move.

I do think, that having a good autofocus system is lacking on all Panasonic cameras I used (GH1 to 5 + GM5 + G85) to get a complete and very efficient package for video work from fiction to journalism. 

If there is no serious improvement in AF on the S1, I am not going to invest my money on it. GH5 and JVC LS300 (an amazing camera with its FX look with a speedbooster) will still do the job for me.

[EspenB]

10 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

Still better than Canon R and RP. 

Well, not if you want that dual pixel AF and swivel LCD.

17 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

I don't really think a small body is feasible with full frame IBIS and being able to process full frame 4k 10bit or 4k 60p while managing heat properly. 

The basic problem is that camera companies don't make their LSI with proper low nm processes. That would lower heat output massively.

Developing proper camera LSI's are getting very expensive, that's why you see old processors recycled. Like the Olympus "X" where they just put two outdated processors in the same body.

17 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

You show me the perfect camera!!

They will never make one as long as they can put different software features in different bodies and sell you two or three. Not to mention they always saves something for the next years model.

Alas camera companies are always looking for the perfect profit, not the perfect camera.

[henricus]

It’s better not to watch that channel (like most photography channels on YouTube).

[currensheldon]

Yea this video is ridiculous, especially since he has never touched the camera.

With that said, I am a bit disappointed in the Panasonic S1. Mostly due to the lack of codecs that the GH5 (now a two year old camera) offers. And yes, it will get 10-bit 422, but I am actually curious of which is better (with all things being equal).

- 10 bit 422 LongGOP at 150mbps or

- 8 bit 420 All-I at 480 mbps (EOS R)

Even with a lower bit-depth, my knee jerk reaction would be that triple the bit rate would result in a fuller, more gradable image than the 10-bit. Anyone test these two side by side? At the same time, I really like the 10-bit 422 150mbps on the GH5 and think it looks pretty great. 

From someone who has actually used the camera: