Canon EOS RP and Fuji X-T30 announced - a Grand Canyon sized gap in 4K technology

[Michael Steiner]

9 minutes ago, padam said:

My tip is on the M5/M6 II is the flip-screen (hopefully) with the better controls and build quality the DPAF enabled for 4k (surely) same M50 sensor (likely, the two codenames certified for 24MP) not a huge amount of change, but at least not a significant increase on the pricing either. I don't see them pushing further with that same battery.

Just because there is going to be a high-end 7D-level camera, its primary target of sports and wildlife will not change, so for me doesn't mean that it will not have a further crop for video (but probably improve on frame rates if that is a factor, maybe like 4k60p, the R has no slow motion whatsoever in crop mode), if Canon really showcases some new advancement for video, it would make sense to debut it in the most expensive model that they make first, like they did with 4k60p.

But I see your point perfectly on the R, Canon is just being too clever in what they (precisely) offer with every model that they make, they just give a little more every time in comparison to what they take away, and it is still working for them.

Agree on that too. Only thing missing for me is 4K with DPAF on APS-C. I think a mirrorless 7D would have to offer that. I could even live with a crop as it would be my B-Cam for closer angles in Interviews or the wider angles in general shooting situations (with the Tokina 11-16 F2.8). 4K60 is nothing mandatory for me, already have that on the C200. So I hope you‘re right with the M5 II...

17 minutes ago, hijodeibn said:

Just change one zoom from S35 to FF and you are done, I am also using a C100 but I keep some FF glases, EOS R for now is the best choice for a B cam, the issue is the price, too expensive for me also, probably will go down with the new RP....I hope so

Sure, that would work. For video it would even work without buying a FF Zoom. But in stills-mode I could only use one of my 8 lenses without compromise. Maybe I‘m a dying species but I just don‘t want to go full frame...

[padam]

I hate to say this, but while it really does not offer much, it does that rather well at its price point (pros and cons in the video description)

[thebrothersthre3]

Its not a bad cheap C or B cam option TBH. The 1080p probably sucks but 4k should look pretty nice with Canon colors. If you don't need auto focus its a cheap small option. Though is it worth more than a Canon M50 at $500. If you do 4k the crop on the M50 isn't that much more.

[padam]

27 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Its not a bad cheap C or B cam option TBH. The 1080p probably sucks but 4k should look pretty nice with Canon colors. If you don't need auto focus its a cheap small option. Though is it worth more than a Canon M50 at $500. If you do 4k the crop on the M50 isn't that much more.

You can find M50 footage on the same channel, I think the RP 4k image looks crisper, 1.6x crop vs 2.56x total crop is pretty significant to me and the low-light is no contest.

Yes, you can add a 3rd party SpeedBooster for more monnies, but why not just go for this one instead, especially when it comes bundled with the 100$ adapter (or you can add the control ring or even ND, cheap EF glass, etc., etc.)

So as some suggested, while they are in different price categories, it certainly pushes the M50 back a little bit (keeping the EF-M system slightly separate from the rest doesn't help either) Tried it for a short time, I don't have big hands but it feels too small for me, not the same level of controls.

For 1080p it is more complicated, better low-light with different look on FF versus better quality 1080p on the M50 but with more limited lens choices.

[thebrothersthre3]

24 minutes ago, padam said:

You can find M50 footage on the same channel, I think the RP 4k image looks crisper, 1.6x crop vs 2.56x total crop is pretty significant to me and the low-light is no contest.

Yes, you can add a 3rd party SpeedBooster for more monnies, but why not just go for this one instead, especially when it comes bundled with the 100$ adapter (or you can add the control ring or even ND, cheap EF glass, etc., etc.)

So as some suggested, while they are in different price categories, it certainly pushes the M50 back a little bit (keeping the EF-M system slightly separate from the rest doesn't help either) Tried it for a short time, I don't have big hands but it feels too small for me, not the same level of controls.

For 1080p it is more complicated, better low-light with different look on FF versus better quality 1080p on the M50 but with more limited lens choices.

Oh dang, I thought the crop for the M50 was a total 1.8 crop not 1.8 on top of 1.6. My bad. This is definitely a better option then. 

[ntblowz]

M50 can use EF and EFS lens with Full HD and 4K, RP can only do 720p or 4k on EFS lens, that is quite a big difference, beside u get 120p slowmo and 24fps on m50 which is not an option on RP.

[padam]

1 hour ago, ntblowz said:

M50 can use EF and EFS lens with Full HD and 4K, RP can only do 720p or 4k on EFS lens, that is quite a big difference, beside u get 120p slowmo and 24fps on m50 which is not an option on RP.

Let's break it down a bit more then: they are all the same modes effectively(some differences with processing as I mentioned with the 1080p), only more cropped in by the M50 by default, because it is already a crop sensor.

I think the 720p 120fps which is the only real difference, is almost completely useless, even softer than the already very soft EOS R in the with the same frame rate.

I also don't think it is really necessary to use any kind of EF-S glass on an RP (most of them are not constant aperture zooms, why would you want that for video anyway)

EF just works just fine for photo and video (if you are vlogging for instance and want a wider angle 10-18mm f4.5-5.6, it is definitely unusable in 4k - even if there was downscaled cropped 1080p like on the EOS R, it wouldn't matter that much. So much more logical to stick to 1080p and use EF glass anyway, not EF-S)

Apart from a really excellent value 11-22mm f4-5.6 wide-angle zoom, and generally being very compact for an APS-C camera, the M system really doesn't offer anything special (yes, the recent 32mm f1.4 is also quite nice, but not cheap and there will be an RF 50mm f1.8 with IS included...)

[kaylee]

On 2/14/2019 at 11:08 AM, Mark Romero 2 said:

 

"When I said that on stage, I meant that for us..."

wait a min........

is this JUST a grip?? like, theres no electronic connection, no battery???

it has cropped 4k with no dpaf, and no 1080 24p

that IS amazing

[TheRealOG]

Another crippling product courtesy of Canon. This is not surprising and I can't believe people make excuses for it.

[IronFilm]

22 hours ago, padam said:

I am aware of that, mentioned it in another thread, I just don't see it as such a useful feature for most of the users (yes the have announced it for their newer DSLRs, is that really useful?), rather than bragging about: oh yes, it does (or rather will) have this 'game-changing' feature and it 'completely owns' the competition.

You might not need it, someone else might not need it right now, but it is handy to have it there, the full range of options: 8bit, 10bit, raw!
 

22 hours ago, Castorp said:

The thing with the Nikon Z is that it manages to have good specs but more importantly to me, has the best build quality, handling and feel that I’ve seen. It’s much more than it’s spec sheet. Love the thing. 

Plus it is Nikon, it is always going to be more than just the spec sheet

[kaylee]

the thing about adding raw, prores, etc, is that people dont have to use it

it can just be another function in the menus that almost nobody uses,  like the rest of the menu options

[Kisaha]

Reading through this, I am just amazed of how many unbelievable excuses people make to justify Canon limitations.

Things that are an industry standard for years are thrown out of the window, and people still trying to reason through this.

My 4 year APS-C mirrorless have no crop whatsoever, with 73min continues video recording and no overheating, and when the tiny NX500 was out in 2015, the special press and forums "destroyed" the camera because of its 4K crop..now abysmsl crop is some kind of feature...

[JurijTurnsek]

33 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

and when the tiny NX500 was out in 2015, the special press and forums "destroyed" the camera because of its 4K crop..now abysmsl crop is some kind of feature...

Yup, limitations are negligible when Canon does them, but a catastrophe when any other OEM does it.

[Mokara]

On 2/15/2019 at 1:41 AM, Yehouda said:

@androidlad and @Mokara

You are absolutely right, so the question is why Canon didn't include a DIGIC DV in addition to a regular DIGIC one in their DSLR and mirrorless. For DSLR I can understand because those are clearly photo orientated products. For mirrorless which is a hybrid photo/video market the reason is segmentation: "no DIGIC DV in a photo capable product" (you can take photos with XC10/15 but it is just a bonus).

The X processor 4 in the XT-3 prove that it is technically possible to have really good video capability in a small mirrorless body. In a body like EOS R/RP which are FF, Canon could do it at least for 24/25/30p if they wanted to.

In addition to segmentation problem there is a business problem too. The market is shrinking so Canon's strategy may be to sell new products with old technology to stay economically relevant for their shareholders. They are somehow obligate to do that to stay in the first place in camera business. Only high-end products will have new technology and good video capacity (with some artificial limitations because it is Canon...). On the other hand it is an opportunity for smaller company like Fuji and Nikon to take market shares with new technology and very good affordable products.

Digic DV5 is basically the same processor as the Digic 7 and Digic DV6 is basically the same processor as the Digic 8, with parts of the chip enabled/disabled depending on the sort of camera it is being used in. You would not have both in the same camera (excluding support processors of course, which typically are older versions of  the Digic family and are used for managing focusing in higher end systems)

5 hours ago, TheRealOG said:

Another crippling product courtesy of Canon. This is not surprising and I can't believe people make excuses for it.

They are not doing it on purpose, there is a reason for it. Just because you don't understand the reason (even when it is explained) does not make it any less of a reason. If Canon could put out products at that price point that would blow the competition away, they would. They don't because they can't. At least, not if they want to make a profit.

I say this as someone who is not enamored with Canon, but fair is fair and you need to be objective about it.

7 hours ago, kaylee said:

"When I said that on stage, I meant that for us..."

wait a min........

is this JUST a grip?? like, theres no electronic connection, no battery???

it has cropped 4k with no dpaf, and no 1080 24p

that IS amazing

The people who will buy this camera are unlikely to want to shoot at 24p. That is a very small and specialized niche demand which is irrelevant to most users, particularly in the target market for this camera. The only people who shoot at 24p are wannabe feature film producers, no one else.

99.9% of video shot with this camera in FHD is going to be 60p.

[Michael Steiner]

3 hours ago, Mokara said:

99.9% of video shot with this camera in FHD is going to be 60p.

What makes you think so? I'd have thought "normal" shooters would mainly use 30p...?

[nigelbb]

55 minutes ago, Michi said:

What makes you think so? I'd have thought "normal" shooters would mainly use 30p...?

I'd have thought "normal" shooters would mainly use 25p which is near as dammit to 24p anyway.

[padam]

9 hours ago, IronFilm said:

You might not need it, someone else might not need it right now, but it is handy to have it there, the full range of options: 8bit, 10bit, raw!
 

Plus it is Nikon, it is always going to be more than just the spec sheet

Of course, I just feel that even if it does have it, I might still consider moving up to the next model anyway, because it doesn't heat up as much, the AF is not compromised in Log mode (that is actually less than the specs sheet) the battery becomes stronger, etc., I don't feel like it is so much more future-proof because of that.

This also applies to the external recorder as well, needs to be less toasty and less power hungry, with cheaper compact-sized media, etc. or maybe better internal recording can reduce the need for it.

Being an early adopter vs. waiting it to mature a little bit. Each has its own advantages.

[ntblowz]

17 hours ago, padam said:

Blah blah blah

M50 with Speedbooster will bring the crop and extra stops back, and you get to keep 1080p 24 and 120p 720 and save few hundred dollars.

 

As I also use C200 so quite of few of them is APS-C len, it would be sucks to leave those nice APS-C lens just because some shitty dumb camera restrictions 

 

I was actually looking forward for RP but it just an even shitter version of  FF m50 in terms of video feature, I guess I just save myself $$$$.

 

[kaylee]

Rest In Peace

[Django]

2 hours ago, ntblowz said:

M50 with Speedbooster will bring the crop and extra stops back, and you get to keep 1080p 24 and 120p 720 and save few hundred dollars.

 

As I also use C200 so quite of few of them is APS-C len, it would be sucks to leave those nice APS-C lens just because some shitty dumb camera restrictions 

 

I was actually looking forward for RP but it just an even shitter version of  FF m50 in terms of video feature, I guess I just save myself $$$$.

6

You can shoot with your EF-S lenses on EOS RP in 4K 24p. The crop is 1.6x which equates to Canon's APS-C standard meaning full coverage of your lenses.

DPAF/CLog aside, EOS RP is actually a better 4K camera than EOS R / 5D4 thanks to the reduced crop (and I imagine RS).

There are plenty of irritating things about EOS RP, but crop factor isn't really one of them imo (especially if you compare to M50's whopping 2.56x 4K crop).

EOS RP is basically a decent FF stills, nice Super35 4K video hybrid with a YT/Vlog FHD mode. Kinda an odd mix, but not really that bad for $1300.