can't decide on a new camera

[stefanocps]

Hello, coming from a GH3 it is a while i am looking around to choose a new tool. Can t get to find the ideal situation, as i need to put together the needs of a run and gun style and possibility to have a good image working on dof. I would say a videocam like ax700 would be the solution but, can t manahe a lot dof. Could go for a GH5 but it has a terrible Autofocus. Could go for Fuji XT3 but no IBIS! so what to do?wait another model that got it all? Also a combination of 2 model, a videocam and aslr, perhaps second hand o do not exceed the budget. And also i fear that eventually i will end up using only one of the 2. So what could be the solution? Thanks for sharing opinions!

[thebrothersthre3]

If you already got a bunch of M43 lenses the GH5 is an easy option. Continuous auto focus isn't very reliable but tap to focus works good if you have decent lighting to work with. Won't work for quick moving situations though.

Why do you need IBIS?

A canon C200 might be a good option. You'd have the benefit of a compact video camera with internal ND's and no record limits. Also good color, auto focus, and the benefit of Canon OIS Lenses (good substitute for IBIS).

The Nikon Z6 is also a decent option, no 10 bit internal but the image it produces is pretty nice regardless. Also has great IBIS, auto focus and the ability to do 10 and 12 it external.

[stefanocps]

I could reach Z6 budget with a big effort, but could not add an external recorder. Same reason can t go for c200. Too much money. Z6 coul dbe interesting, though it is a new camera, new experienxe for nikon in mirrorless..don't know seems like should be wise to wait a while to get feedback from users. Also seems much more stills oriented than video

[kye]

I struggled for ages with criteria that sound like they might be similar to yours.  In the end it came down to the Sony A7III, which has good AF and fast but expensive FF lenses, or the GH5 and 10-bit files with the reliability, lack of overheating issues etc, and pro features it offers but limited AF.

I ended up deciding that going to manual focus worked for me and my style of film-making, and because the IBIS is so great you can adapt old lenses and still get great hand-held footage, so I now have the GH5 and a cheap ebay vintage lens collection that is so large that I hide it from my wife.

[stefanocps]

25 minutes ago, kye said:

I struggled for ages with criteria that sound like they might be similar to yours.  In the end it came down to the Sony A7III, which has good AF and fast but expensive FF lenses, or the GH5 and 10-bit files with the reliability, lack of overheating issues etc, and pro features it offers but limited AF.

I ended up deciding that going to manual focus worked for me and my style of film-making, and because the IBIS is so great you can adapt old lenses and still get great hand-held footage, so I now have the GH5 and a cheap ebay vintage lens collection that is so large that I hide it from my wife.

this could be a good solution. I already have a selection of old Minolta Rokkor lenses which i used on GH3. Can't rely only on manual focus though, as often i need to be able to rely on autofocus, being me the only operator working at documentary, interview etc... I don tknow how the AF of gh5 has improved, for what i have read seemes nearly unusable. You never thaught of XT3?

[BTM_Pix]

1 hour ago, stefanocps said:

Could go for Fuji XT3 but no IBIS! 

If you like the look from the Fuji but need IBIS then a used X-H1 might be worth a look as it is a bit of steal these days, particularly as the 2.0 firmware seems to have improved the IBIS performance.

[stefanocps]

1 minute ago, BTM_Pix said:

If you like the look from the Fuji but need IBIS then a used X-H1 might be worth a look as it is a bit of steal these days, particularly as the 2.0 firmware seems to have improved the IBIS performance.

yes i am interested to fuji, and as you said XH1 now is a really good price with ibis. Seems to have not as good Autofocus as its sister XT3 though. Af also is soemthing really iportant for me, but while i could achieve stabilization with lenses or gimbal, if autofocus is not good..no way to get it!

 

 

[thebrothersthre3]

How often would you use IBIS over a tripod or gimbal?

[BTM_Pix]

23 minutes ago, stefanocps said:

yes i am interested to fuji, and as you said XH1 now is a really good price with ibis. Seems to have not as good Autofocus as its sister XT3 though. Af also is soemthing really iportant for me, but while i could achieve stabilization with lenses or gimbal, if autofocus is not good..no way to get it!

Yep, its a dilemma.

I suppose it comes down to how good is "good enough" for what you personally will be doing with it but I have to say I've been surprised by the AF improvements they have made to the X-H1 with later firmware.

This test for example is quite useful, for face detect at least, showing it with a number of different Fuji lenses and  I was surprised how well it was doing with some of the older lenses.

I suppose the answer to get the best of both worlds is to wait for the X-H2 but who knows when that will arrive

 

[stefanocps]

well with tripod or gimbal..no ibis!

[Kisaha]

1 hour ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

If you already got a bunch of M43 lenses the GH5 is an easy option. Continuous auto focus isn't very reliable but tap to focus works good if you have decent lighting to work with. Won't work for quick moving situations though.

Why do you need IBIS?

A canon C200 might be a good option. You'd have the benefit of a compact video camera with internal ND's and no record limits. Also good color, auto focus, and the benefit of Canon OIS Lenses (good substitute for IBIS).

The Nikon Z6 is also a decent option, no 10 bit internal but the image it produces is pretty nice regardless. Also has great IBIS, auto focus and the ability to do 10 and 12 it external.

Man, how one can go from a GH3 to a C200?! 

The usual suspects right now are the GH5/XT3/Z6, with the Z as the best true hybrid, maybe!

[thebrothersthre3]

6 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

Man, how one can go from a GH3 to a C200?! 

The usual suspects right now are the GH5/XT3/Z6, with the Z as the best true hybrid, maybe!

Its definitely a jump but if you don't need photos its a great option. Built in ND's would be really nice for doc work. 

Would be hard to beat the Z6 in terms of usability. Lots of Nikon glass to choose from, IBIS, crazy low light performance, good dynamic range, decent color, future upgrade potential. 

I think the questions come down to lowlight performance and IBIS needs. 

The XH1 is not a bad option either. Also really cheap if you buy used. The extra money can go to getting glass. 

[kye]

1 hour ago, stefanocps said:

this could be a good solution. I already have a selection of old Minolta Rokkor lenses which i used on GH3. Can't rely only on manual focus though, as often i need to be able to rely on autofocus, being me the only operator working at documentary, interview etc... I don tknow how the AF of gh5 has improved, for what i have read seemes nearly unusable. You never thaught of XT3?

I don't use AF on the GH5 so can't comment.  Camera reviewers make a big deal of these things, but what they don't tell you is that they're often using it for recording the camera reviews they make.  I would imagine it's quite a personal thing, depending on the circumstances that you put the camera into.  I think it's kind of gotten blown out of proportion really, it seems like the GH5 can't ever focus and the other cameras never miss focus, but that's just not true.  Even if it was 90% vs 95%, that's still 90%.

I don't think the XT-3 was out when I bought my GH5, maybe I'm wrong.  I guess in the same way that people think of the AF on the GH5 as "risking it", I thought of other cameras IBIS as "risking it" when the GH5 was the IBIS king for a long time.  I shoot almost exclusively hand-held so the IBIS is a huge deal for me.  I'm not 100% sure that it is still the IBIS king now, but the combination ofnnearly the best IBIS, 10-bit internal, huge range of lenses available, rock solid industry standard performer was really the balance of things for me.

People say the XT-3 is great, and they're probably right

[thebrothersthre3]

31 minutes ago, kye said:

I don't use AF on the GH5 so can't comment.  Camera reviewers make a big deal of these things, but what they don't tell you is that they're often using it for recording the camera reviews they make.  I would imagine it's quite a personal thing, depending on the circumstances that you put the camera into.  I think it's kind of gotten blown out of proportion really, it seems like the GH5 can't ever focus and the other cameras never miss focus, but that's just not true.  Even if it was 90% vs 95%, that's still 90%.

I don't think the XT-3 was out when I bought my GH5, maybe I'm wrong.  I guess in the same way that people think of the AF on the GH5 as "risking it", I thought of other cameras IBIS as "risking it" when the GH5 was the IBIS king for a long time.  I shoot almost exclusively hand-held so the IBIS is a huge deal for me.  I'm not 100% sure that it is still the IBIS king now, but the combination ofnnearly the best IBIS, 10-bit internal, huge range of lenses available, rock solid industry standard performer was really the balance of things for me.

People say the XT-3 is great, and they're probably right

I think its still probably the best IBIS, other than Olympus. Dual IS really is crazy good. Auto focuses has its uses, shooting fast subjects or cars or tracking shots with a super shallow DOF. In general though I agree its a bit overrated. I remember shooting a typical gimbal tracking shot with my XT20, had to redo it so many times due to inaccurate AF. May have been smarter if I just switched to manual, stopped down a bit and kept the same distance from the actor to stay in focus. That said the XT3 would have handled it really easily. 

[newfoundmass]

The GH5 is a great option. Using tap to focus works really well unless you're in terrible conditions. The auto focus performance really depends on which settings you use. I find it quite usable in one area and pinpoint AF. Also coming from the GH3 you'll have the focus assist features with the GH5 that make manual focus very easy.

You can rent one for fairly cheap these days, maybe try it out? You might be surprised! 

[IronFilm]

15 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

If you already got a bunch of M43 lenses the GH5 is an easy option.

Even the much cheaper G85 would still be a big leap forward if you're coming from the GH3

15 hours ago, stefanocps said:

I could reach Z6 budget with a big effort, but could not add an external recorder.

The Z6 costs about the same as the GH5. (although yeah, now the GH5 has been out a while we've seeing some great deals on it below its launch price)

And the Atomos Ninja V is very cheap, you don't have to buy it right away either. Wait six months and I'm sure you'd see a few Ninja V deals popping up on eBay as well. 

14 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Yep, its a dilemma.

I suppose it comes down to how good is "good enough" for what you personally will be doing with it but I have to say I've been surprised by the AF improvements they have made to the X-H1 with later firmware.

This test for example is quite useful, for face detect at least, showing it with a number of different Fuji lenses and  I was surprised how well it was doing with some of the older lenses.

I suppose the answer to get the best of both worlds is to wait for the X-H2 but who knows when that will arrive

@stefanocps it is worthwhile thinking carefully on this point of "good enough". After all you've been living with a GH3 for a long time! Thus surely you don't need need  autofocus as much as you think, otherwise you wouldn't have used a GH3 for so long. 

Even though the GH5's (or X-T3 etc) autofocus is not quite as DPAF levels, they're still much much better than anything I own! Or for instance your GH3. 

[kye]

6 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

The GH5 is a great option. Using tap to focus works really well unless you're in terrible conditions. The auto focus performance really depends on which settings you use. I find it quite usable in one area and pinpoint AF. Also coming from the GH3 you'll have the focus assist features with the GH5 that make manual focus very easy.

You can rent one for fairly cheap these days, maybe try it out? You might be surprised! 

Absolutely.  I'd also suggest trying before you buy.  

One of the things that I thought the GH5 would be absolutely great at would be focus peaking, but it didn't stack up to what I had in my head.  To be fair I'm not sure if anything does, but there are situations I found it wasn't that great (ie, terrible) but there are ways around it with punching in to focus, and it wouldn't have changed my decision to buy it, but it was still a disappointment.  Sadly, as good as the GH5 is (and I absolutely love mine) no camera is perfect and every feature has its limits on every camera.

[stefanocps]

resuming

there are few candidates, from low end(in  price ) XH1 to High end Z6

In the middle gh5,xt3..and i add an handycam like ax700/nx80 which i like for the quick of use

XH1 has a good advante to be cheap and give the chance to invest more in other thing, it has it all but seems the weakest of the group?

Z6 is the more expensivce (well above GH5 not exactly the same as @IronFilm said) look very good at all but it needs ATOMOS to have 422, also it does not have 60p (or it has it in hdmi recording?).Again @IronFilm said that Atomos is Cheap but i see it at over 700 euro...that is not cheap

In the middle 2 alternative GH5 that is well know, perhaps is an oild project now and this is not an excting poin, while XT3 iit is new, but miss ibisi

Of course coming from GH3 i did non have ibisi, nor a good autofocus, no many things that, for this reason, i would love to have it now!

Another point i want to consider is the usability in editing of the files. XT3 seems to require a very strong job from pc, i don t know about the opthers. My pc is not really new, and i have not the intention to change it now

Some Z6 user says that for video Z6 is not yeat as mature as other product being the forst mirrorless project fron Nikon

 

Don't know..what i need is something i can primary work in a similar way to handycam, for speed of use. Also of course need to have control over the image if needed

 

[Django]

Advice is a little all over the place. People here tend to obsess over camera bodies but my first question would be what lenses do you own?

If you are going to start over from scratch, take a closer look at the lens system offered by each option.

Nikon Z only have 3 native lenses at the moment. Also if you wanna shoot log you have to go external (at which point AF becomes unreliable).

If you are going FF mirrorless and need IBIS, i'd recommend A7III. Plenty of native lens options, great AF, internal log. It's a quite good all-rounder.

Otherwise in APS-C land: XH1 seems to tick all your boxes. The battery life is its weakest link though.

[stefanocps]

32 minutes ago, Django said:

Advice is a little all over the place. People here tend to obsess over camera bodies but my first question would be what lenses do you own?

If you are going to start over from scratch, take a closer look at the lens system offered by each option.

Nikon Z only have 3 native lenses at the moment. Also if you wanna shoot log you have to go external (at which point AF becomes unreliable).

If you are going FF mirrorless and need IBIS, i'd recommend A7III. Plenty of native lens options, great AF, internal log. It's a quite good all-rounder.

Otherwise in APS-C land: XH1 seems to tick all your boxes. The battery life is its weakest link though.

yes a7 iii is another option, dont know why tend to consider little all sony, there is something not reliable with them for me..don t know what..may be prices always high, lots of issues about heating that most of their camera suffer, image look great yes but seems something so delicate