Leica Q2 (DCI4K)

[MrSMW]

Realistically, it's only real rivals are the Sony RX1 and Fuji X100 series with a fairly clear pecking order (to me!) now which would be: Fuji the entry level, the Sony the middle ground and the Leica the top of the tree.

It's not a rival for a DSLR or a mirrorless interchangeable lens camera though and really it's a stills only machine with some video capability.

Personally, I'd rather it had zero capability and a 35mm lens but I think it's a fabulous thing and you either get the 'whole Leica thing' or you don't.

[Django]

The upcoming Zeiss ZX1 will be its main competitor imo but yeah a 35mm summicron/summilux would have been a slam dunk for me too.

That said the 28mm actually makes a lot of sense if you consider the resolution and crop modes. Essentially giving you a 28-75mm focal range. I also love how the crop modes gives you frame overlays (like on classic M series) and not actual crop like all other cameras do it. Perfect for 'see the subject before he enters the frame' type street photography.

As for video, again it's a nice bonus.  I actually like the DCI 4K IQ I'm seeing from the following review (3:20) and the 120fps FHD seems pretty sharp & clear of artefacts too:

Manual focusing for video should be a treat as well considering it's no fly by wire focusing like let's say on Fujis / Nikon Z etc.. so extra credit there too!

[Mattias Burling]

Imo 28mm is the separator. Otherwise one would choose between the Q and a M240 or something with a Leica 35mm.
The 28mm summilux is $6000 and therefor out of reach. And among street shooters 28mm is extremely popular.

[Castorp]

28mm is smartphone standard, making it the most commonly used field of view in the world. I think especially for the younger generation, those who are teenagers today, 28mm is really the new standard and what most people will be used to. 

[Emanuel]

On 3/7/2019 at 9:05 PM, Django said:

Here in Europe, S1R is 3700€ body only. The Q2 is selling for 4790€... with a Leica 28mm Summilux.. lens alone retails for 6000€. All made in Germany.

Germany? I don't think so...

https://leica.pt/?lang=en

German Design, made in Portugal... About 40 kms away of where I am now : -)

 

[Anaconda_]

4 hours ago, Django said:

As for video, again it's a nice bonus.  I actually like the DCI 4K IQ I'm seeing from the following review (3:20) and the 120fps FHD seems pretty sharp & clear of artefacts too:

The video to me looks awful. It could be down to the lighting, but he looks more like a Ken doll than a living, breathing, fleshy human. The stills look fantastic, of course, but I'd never use this for video.

[Emanuel]

Mate, Portuguese origin can't be plastic... Our country sums 9 centuries of history! LOL ; -)

[Django]

@Anaconda_ pretty sure that has more to do with the lighting and dudes oily skin from singapore's heat/humidity.

this other review was filmed on a sony A6500, when the Q2 footage kicks in (2:00) the clarity, tonality & detail makes the sony IQ look like a cheap mushy yellow tint mess:

 

 

[Simon Young]

What are you talking about? @DjangoDoesn’t look better than any of the competent full frame mirrorless cameras today. I see blown out hightlights, micro jitters and a fixed focal length. For stills yes maybe it’s worth the price, for video it’s a fucking joke.

[Mattias Burling]

Leica cameras that say "made in Germany" has to be 80% made in Germany. 

[Django]

1 hour ago, Emanuel said:

Germany? I don't think so...

https://leica.pt/?lang=en

German Design, made in Portugal... About 40 kms away of where I am now : -)

 

It's my understanding subassembly and some machining is done there but most parts as well as final testing & assembly is done by hand at the Wetzlar facility:

Leica Q assembly line

 

25 minutes ago, Simon Young said:

What are you talking about? @DjangoDoesn’t look better than any of the competent full frame mirrorless cameras today. I see blown out hightlights, micro jitters and a fixed focal length. For stills yes maybe it’s worth the price, for video it’s a fucking joke.

lol right cuz blown highlights & micro jitters are camera flaws not operator related..

i've said multiple times already that video is not the main attraction here, and merely a bonus. this camera also isn't competing with a 1DX2, XT3 or A73. it's a high-end street/travel compact camera. that said the SOOC DCI 4K / 120fps FDH IQ, leica color science, low RS & sharpness of that summilux lens make it a lot worthier than most cameras in its category (i.e X100/RX/GR series) imo. The 35mm/50mm/75mm crop modes apparently also carry over to video, which i find pretty unique & interesting for quick on the go prime focal value changes.

[Emanuel]

What I've heard from people inside there, is:

Design and final assembly, as well, packaging happen in Germany. Everything else in their Portuguese unit in V. N. Famalicão, which means the most part indeed. I've retained something like 80-85% last time I heard, a year ago or so.

That 'made in Germany' is well worthy and one of their major selling points. Reason why they do it like that. Other than that, they would probably have the whole manufacturing line in Portugal. Not my words though : -)

 

I can give you another example. In 70-80s my family was used to pick up TV sets only about 20 kms away of Leica's factory today, from Grundig factory in Braga (our first two color TV sets came from there... Blackmagic color science was still a bit far away then LOL my father was friend of their man in charge there, a nice German engineer BTW, I was their volleyball team's player in mid-80s, we were used to put our eyes on those girls with German surnames from mixed marriages : D) and every units had that famous 'made in Germany' graciously inscribed there despite to be fully manufactured and assembled in my native country (I guess, only packing was used to happen in Nuremberg, very likely, not sure of this latter one though ; -)

[Django]

They have parts that come from various locations such as obviously the camera sensors which are not in-house.

Final assembly & quality control is what is the most important. There is no actual 'manufacturing line' as final testing & assembly is done on individual workstations.

The thoroughness performed by Leica at this stage is second to none and explains part of the price. Not unlike what certain swiss-made watch manufacturers have going on.

Here is a recent and thorough article about what goes on exactly in those German labs: MAKING CAMERAS AND LENSES THE LEICA WAY

Btw, that takes nothing away from what I'm sure is a top-notch facility in Portugal and what surely makes repair parts easy to source.

I'm still traumatised by the 3-month delay it took Nikon to source & ship my faulty shutter from China on a brand new D750.. 

[Emanuel]

As matter of fact, same thought here and asked exactly that. The people with whom I've chatted with, they were very proud of their product. Their info seemed legit to me.

Thanks for the link. I'm afraid this is not the whole picture of the real thing, though. I just reproduce the contact I had in person. Maybe some models are in one factory, other models in the other one. But even when I asked about that, they hinted me the Portuguese factory is their main production house. I just know what I listened in first hand, that is, from people working there. I will even try to reach them again with that one and check that.

[Django]

Yeah well either way all I'm saying is there is a certain peace of mind when buying a Leica product (real Leica not Panny rebranded). 

Here in the Paris store, there is a Leica white coat lab technician in plain view working at his station around the clock.

Go to Canon/Nikon you get a ticket cue and your gear gets shipped out god knows where for how long.

Sony won't even bother to fix your camera. If you're out of warranty it's straight to the bin! ?

 

[Emanuel]

Seems they rule all the other areas except electronics:

https://leica.pt/assembly/?lang=en#

[Castorp]

@Emanuel

I don’t understand how your link translates to the Q being made in Portugal. No doubt components are made in many places. But most of the manufacture will be done in Germany as is stipulated by German law. Otherwise Leica would be fined for using that label.

Sweden and Switzerland have similar laws. For a product to state “made in Germany” most of the manufacture needs to have taken place in Germany. 

And it’s not just about assembly. If majority of components are made outside of Germany it’s not made in Germany. 

For the same reason I doubt it’s a Panasonic lens. 

[Emanuel]

I don't know about this specific model. I just reproduce what I've heard from people working there. AFAIK there are two manufacturing units. People in one of those units hinted in that route already above-posted.

[Mattias Burling]

Again, all Leicas that says "Made in Germany" has to be 80% made in Germany. Let's not derail another thread, let it go.

[Emanuel]

Has to? This doesn't match some information I've got along my course : ) Even though, that argument of a fine must apply in a way or another, I wouldn't surprise myself if there is some gap within the legal text which may end explored in a way or another as well. It may happen to be more a matter of requirements fulfillment than anything else, I guess. I still stand to see any Leica product with the 'made in Portugal' label but they have an important factory right here. A bit weird, isn't it? ; -)