Insta 360 EVO 360/180 3D Camera

[BTM_Pix]

Just giving it its own thread as the discussion is tucked away in the Cinematic Colour thread.

Announced today, very interesting concept of a twin lens 360 camera that folds out to use the twin lenses to shoot 180 degree 3D.

You can see the 3D with the supplied small goggles but the neat part is the lenticular adapter that lets you watch it glasses free on the phone screen.

 

[Kisaha]

This is like 1000 times better than what the Osmo Pocket does.

Is this a better camera than the Insta X? or just a different product? I want to buy one to play a little, and I am buying a Rode NT-SF1 mic soon, so I want to match those.

[BTM_Pix]

1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

Is this a better camera than the Insta X? or just a different product? 

I am really knocked out by how good the X is as a fun travel camera but I'm looking at this new one thinking "mmm....but that looks even more fun" 

Its how they get you isn't it ?

[Kisaha]

6 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

I am really knocked out by how good the X is as a fun travel camera but I'm looking at this new one thinking "mmm....but that looks even more fun" 

Its how they get you isn't it ?

haha! I think they are just very innovative at this point. They have taken the 360/VR think to another, and more useful, level. 

I am looking for a new little toy to play, but I wouldn't say no, if I could implement it on my work flow for very specific and unique purposes.

The Insta X is one of those cameras - with its extra accessories, where is this positioned? is it going to be cheaper, or more expensive? it seems like a more casual camera, I am not sure if the 3D is a great great idea for me, just looking for a bit more image quality on a lesser than 1000$ camera, that can replace a GoPro and a gimbal, and add that little extra.

[BTM_Pix]

43 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

haha! I think they are just very innovative at this point. They have taken the 360/VR think to another, and more useful, level. 

I am looking for a new little toy to play, but I wouldn't say no, if I could implement it on my work flow for very specific and unique purposes.

The Insta X is one of those cameras - with its extra accessories, where is this positioned? is it going to be cheaper, or more expensive? it seems like a more casual camera, I am not sure if the 3D is a great great idea for me, just looking for a bit more image quality on a lesser than 1000$ camera, that can replace a GoPro and a gimbal, and add that little extra.

I've noticed the BBC have started to use the OneX for self filmed walk and talk reports on things like Newsnight.

The use of the tiny planet mode from time to time gives the game away (!) but in the main its actually very effective.

You can tell its not been shot on something more elaborate but how many generations are we from it not being the case, one maybe two ?

The stabilisation it can do is actually very impressive.

This new one is about 10% more expensive and looks to be more aimed at trying to carve out something new for phone users but, like RED, unless everyone has the screen (or adapter) in this case then your target audience is limited if or until it catches on.

[Kisaha]

4 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

I've noticed the BBC have started to use the OneX for self filmed walk and talk reports on things like Newsnight.

The use of the tiny planet mode from time to time gives the game away (!) but in the main its actually very effective.

You can tell its not been shot on something more elaborate but how many generations are we from it not being the case, one maybe two ?

The stabilisation it can do is actually very impressive.

This new one is about 10% more expensive and looks to be more aimed at trying to carve out something new for phone users but, like RED, unless everyone has the screen (or adapter) in this case then your target audience is limited if or until it catches on.

Just bring the Insta XX! yes, it is more a gimmick than a real useful - for us - machine.

[Ehetyz]

I'm completely hooked on VR stuff so this is really tempting. Makes me want to do an action short in 3D180. Hook that thing on a face rig and pull some stupid stunts. Maybe a little reckless driving. Or maybe a first person splatter movie.

Watching through Oculus Rift the sample clips looked quite nice. The 3D effect is very strong and I was actually surprised at how much more impressive it looked through VR when compared to desktop.

[BTM_Pix]

1 hour ago, Ehetyz said:

Watching through Oculus Rift the sample clips looked quite nice. The 3D effect is very strong and I was actually surprised at how much more impressive it looked through VR when compared to desktop.

Damn, I was hoping you were going to say it was awful so I could save some money  

[kye]

Lok was impressed with the 3D-without-goggles feature:

 

[kye]

10 hours ago, Kisaha said:

This is like 1000 times better than what the Osmo Pocket does.

I think they're different cameras.  

There is a fundamental aesthetic difference between digital and optical image stabilisation, and also about the entire over-capture vs framing workflows too.  For my travel and family videos I am tempted to add a 360 cam as a b-cam to my GH5 but they would be for very different situations and types of shot.

9 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

I am really knocked out by how good the X is as a fun travel camera but I'm looking at this new one thinking "mmm....but that looks even more fun" 

Loks video shows the near stitching on the EVO to have problems on closer objects because the cameras are a lot further apart.  Something to consider if you're unsure about framing and will have objects closer to the camera.

8 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

I've noticed the BBC have started to use the OneX for self filmed walk and talk reports on things like Newsnight.

The use of the tiny planet mode from time to time gives the game away (!) but in the main its actually very effective.

You can tell its not been shot on something more elaborate but how many generations are we from it not being the case, one maybe two ?

The stabilisation it can do is actually very impressive.

This new one is about 10% more expensive and looks to be more aimed at trying to carve out something new for phone users but, like RED, unless everyone has the screen (or adapter) in this case then your target audience is limited if or until it catches on.

Interesting that the BBC is using it.  I suspect their quality threshold is roughly the same as mine, where 4K wasn't acceptable at all and the new ~6K ones are just on the cusp.  When 8K h265 becomes mainstream and they put it in a form factor like the X I think that will start to really be useful in a serious way, much the same as how GoPros became a viable part of a low budget production kit over time as the quality improved.

6 hours ago, Ehetyz said:

I'm completely hooked on VR stuff so this is really tempting. Makes me want to do an action short in 3D180. Hook that thing on a face rig and pull some stupid stunts. Maybe a little reckless driving. Or maybe a first person splatter movie.

Watching through Oculus Rift the sample clips looked quite nice. The 3D effect is very strong and I was actually surprised at how much more impressive it looked through VR when compared to desktop.

If you can do a half decent job and be the first person to do it (or if previous attempts weren't good enough but you cross some kind of threshold) then you've got a shot at it getting that "first one" PR and success.  But you'd have to be quick!

[Kisaha]

3 hours ago, kye said:

I think they're different cameras.  

There is a fundamental aesthetic difference between digital and optical image stabilisation, and also about the entire over-capture vs framing workflows too.  For my travel and family videos I am tempted to add a 360 cam as a b-cam to my GH5 but they would be for very different situations and types of 

Interesting that the BBC is using it.  I suspect their quality threshold is roughly the same as mine, where 4K wasn't acceptable at all and the new ~6K ones are just on the cusp.  When 8K h265 becomes mainstream and they put it in a form factor like the X I think that will start to really be useful in a serious way, much the same as how GoPros became a viable part of a low budget production kit over time as the quali

if I have 1 camera with a tiny sensor in my arsenal (except my phone) then it better be a 6-8K 360 one. They do almost all the classic stuff, plus a myriad other things that classical concepts can't.

4K is too little for 360, the first - cheap now - 4K cameras had unacceptable quality for even home videos. 5.7-6" is the starting point I believe, but 360/VR will be truly benefited with 8K video.

[Ehetyz]

4 hours ago, kye said:

If you can do a half decent job and be the first person to do it (or if previous attempts weren't good enough but you cross some kind of threshold) then you've got a shot at it getting that "first one" PR and success.  But you'd have to be quick!

I don't care about PR. I just think one could do some cool things with the 3d180. The depth felt really convincing even in the static birthday demo shot, so I figure making a high speed chase or a Hardcore Henry-like fight scene with that could produce some pretty interesting results. Of course it could also produce just motion sickness ?

[Anaconda_]

Does anyone know if the 18mp photos stated here means its 2x 18mp stills, or 1 combines, so each camera is 9mp?

Also, I noticed on their website, you can shoot video in LOG.

I'm semi interested in this as a digital 3d camera, and 360 could be fun for vacations, but the battery seems pretty small - around 1hr, a that's likely with wifi turned off. 

[BTM_Pix]

17 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

Does anyone know if the 18mp photos stated here means its 2x 18mp stills, or 1 combines, so each camera is 9mp?

Also, I noticed on their website, you can shoot video in LOG.

I'm semi interested in this as a digital 3d camera, and 360 could be fun for vacations, but the battery seems pretty small - around 1hr, a that's likely with wifi turned off. 

The spec sheet is the same as the 360 ONE X so yes that will be 18mp total.

360 ONE X also shoots LOG but I only briefly experimented with it as I wanted something I could share fast out of the camera on holiday so didn't fancy the extra steps in colour correcting it. 

Should be lots of examples on YouTube of LOG footage for you to have a look at though. 

The ONE X had a spare battery in the kit as a nod I guess to acknowledging battery life isn't great but I'm not sure if this one does? What I find is that because its capturing everything then I don't need to use a phone as a preview monitor so that improves battery life but also I just had a small usb power bank in my bag to keep it topped anyway.

What I would say after using it up a mountain is that if you do extended takes you won't need to pack a hand warmer!

 

[kye]

6 hours ago, Ehetyz said:

I don't care about PR. I just think one could do some cool things with the 3d180. The depth felt really convincing even in the static birthday demo shot, so I figure making a high speed chase or a Hardcore Henry-like fight scene with that could produce some pretty interesting results. Of course it could also produce just motion sickness ?

Yeah.  The more 3D stuff I watch, the more I think you have to be reeeeeealy careful if you move the camera!

6 hours ago, Anaconda_ said:

Does anyone know if the 18mp photos stated here means its 2x 18mp stills, or 1 combines, so each camera is 9mp?

Also, I noticed on their website, you can shoot video in LOG.

I'm semi interested in this as a digital 3d camera, and 360 could be fun for vacations, but the battery seems pretty small - around 1hr, a that's likely with wifi turned off. 

Can you put a USB into it when it's mounted?

If so, you'd likely be using it with a pole mounted in its blind spot so you could potentially just coil a USB cable up the pole?

5 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

360 ONE X also shoots LOG but I only briefly experimented with it as I wanted something I could share fast out of the camera on holiday so didn't fancy the extra steps in colour correcting it. 

Should be lots of examples on YouTube of LOG footage for you to have a look at though. 

Log on 8-bit low bitrate consumer camera doesn't sound that promising...

5 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

What I would say after using it up a mountain is that if you do extended takes you won't need to pack a hand warmer!

Great!  Another product that will only work in countries that are so cold all you do in winter is sit inside wanting to kill yourself and then when it's barely above freezing everyone strips off naked in parks and old people and babies die because the temperature got all the way up to the temperature we run our refrigerators at.

[Trek of Joy]

Curious about the IQ. Been tinkering with the Insta 360 Nano S and video quality is marginal at best, there's just no detail. I get 4k 360 is pretty low rez so I'm not expecting miracles. And for some odd reason files exported out of the Insta Studio get worse. Seems like I'd have to spend $1000 or so for something decent, like the new Ricoh with the dual 1" sensors.

Chris

[kye]

3 minutes ago, Trek of Joy said:

Curious about the IQ. Been tinkering with the Insta 360 Nano S and video quality is marginal at best, there's just no detail. I get 4k 360 is pretty low rez so I'm not expecting miracles. And for some odd reason files exported out of the Insta Studio get worse. Seems like I'd have to spend $1000 or so for something decent, like the new Ricoh with the dual 1" sensors.

Chris

I'd keep my eye on it but wait.  Every new model seems to get better by quite a lot, and Insta seems to be the DJI of 360 cameras so they're the ones to watch.

You're right that 4K isn't enough for 360 degrees, and they're not going to up the bitrate much beyond the 100mbps, at least for the two-lens consumer versions.  That's why I say to wait for the 8K versions.  It's highly promising new tech, but it's just not quite there yet for the kind of quality that people on this forum demand as a minimum standard.

[BTM_Pix]

53 minutes ago, kye said:

Great!  Another product that will only work in countries that are so cold all you do in winter is sit inside wanting to kill yourself and then when it's barely above freezing everyone strips off naked in parks and old people and babies die because the temperature got all the way up to the temperature we run our refrigerators at.

Didn't know you'd been to my in-laws place.

[Kisaha]

How long is the Insta 360 X out in the wild? Are we waiting for a new release soon-ish??

[Trek of Joy]

On 3/14/2019 at 10:31 AM, kye said:

I'd keep my eye on it but wait.  Every new model seems to get better by quite a lot, and Insta seems to be the DJI of 360 cameras so they're the ones to watch.

You're right that 4K isn't enough for 360 degrees, and they're not going to up the bitrate much beyond the 100mbps, at least for the two-lens consumer versions.  That's why I say to wait for the 8K versions.  It's highly promising new tech, but it's just not quite there yet for the kind of quality that people on this forum demand as a minimum standard.

Its not just people on gear forums,  we post them to FB and YT and get comments about the crappy IQ from viewers. The company I produce stuff for is hesitant to invest big $$$ in something that may just be a passing fancy from a social engagement standpoint. I shoot tourism content, and it is cool to take people to a beach 360 or to a unique place like a natural spring full of manatees. Seems like it'll be awhile before a decent 8k camera hits the sub-$1000 price point, which is probably the most they're willing to spend at the moment.

Chris