androidlad Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 2.91um pixel architecture, 100MP @ 10fps, 6K video using 12bit ADC with on-chip binning/line-skipping. 4K RGB 4:4:4 video with on-chip colour-aware binning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kisaha Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 Sony Semiconductor Solutions Corporation is on a roll. They are just so far ahead right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gianluca Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 Where do you get 10 fps info? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanveer Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 3 hours ago, androidlad said: 2.91um pixel architecture, 100MP @ 10fps, 6K video using 12bit ADC with on-chip binning/line-skipping. 4K RGB 4:4:4 video with on-chip colour-aware binning. I am guessing this has a 2nd page too. Mayne you could share that for more details about the sensor. Looks pretty kickass. Especially with the 16-bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JurijTurnsek Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 Just out of curiosity: we know that the current bottleneck are not Sony's sensora, but the tiny body housing the LSI and CPU. Would our resident gear critique panel be outraged if Sony released another generation based on the same old 42mpx body and "merely" using it to it's full potential? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
androidlad Posted March 20, 2019 Author Share Posted March 20, 2019 This 12288 x 8192 100MP sensor employs a unique, CFA-based column-parallel ADC design: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkor Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Pointless 100mp on a small sensor. I wish they would rather work on full well capacity or something else that gives more dynamic range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
androidlad Posted March 21, 2019 Author Share Posted March 21, 2019 29 minutes ago, Nikkor said: Pointless 100mp on a small sensor. I wish they would rather work on full well capacity or something else that gives more dynamic range. Sony has some of the most talented sensor architects, how much do you know? ? The diagram above is exactly one of many innovative designs to improve sensitivity and dynamic range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towd Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 16 hours ago, androidlad said: Sony has some of the most talented sensor architects, how much do you know? I know that Sony's sensor architects don't deliver movies. But I can see some value to a 100mpix sensor for stills. I have to agree with @Nikkor though, I'd love to see them continue to improve dynamic range and rolling shutter in their consumer line more than resolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
androidlad Posted March 22, 2019 Author Share Posted March 22, 2019 38 minutes ago, Towd said: I know that Sony's sensor architects don't deliver movies. But I can see some value to a 100mpix sensor for stills. I have to agree with @Nikkor though, I'd love to see them continue to improve dynamic range and rolling shutter in their consumer line more than resolution. It's interesting that people simply assume high resolution sensors have less dynamic range and worse rolling shutter. I'll post more info when I'm allowed to, but for now I can say when normalised to 4K, this 100MP sensor performs better than A7 III in terms of dynamic range, sensitivity (QE) and readout speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liork Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 It should be interesting to see how making a 8MP out of 100MP turns out in term of moire, aliasing etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
androidlad Posted March 22, 2019 Author Share Posted March 22, 2019 9 minutes ago, liork said: It should be interesting to see how making a 8MP out of 100MP turns out in term of moire, aliasing etc. 12288/4096 = 3. 3 x 3 colour-ware binning with the above mentioned CFA-based ADC, producing 4096x2160 RGB 4:4:4 stream directly on-chip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkor Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 2 hours ago, androidlad said: It's interesting that people simply assume high resolution sensors have less dynamic range and worse rolling shutter. I'll post more info when I'm allowed to, but for now I can say when normalised to 4K, this 100MP sensor performs better than A7 III in terms of dynamic range, sensitivity (QE) and readout speed. With The Same Technology applied to large and to small Sensors, guess which one will have larger full well capacity and less rolling shutter. 100MP is total overkill for fullframe, when will you See diffraction? F5.6? Will they build in a focus stacking program for landscapes? Moving the ibis back and forth, using phase detection pixels to make a depthmap? I know they are not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gianluca Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 Androidlad, ok QE and and DR, but readout speed faster than a 4 time less megapixel.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
androidlad Posted March 22, 2019 Author Share Posted March 22, 2019 20 minutes ago, Gianluca said: Androidlad, ok QE and and DR, but readout speed faster than a 4 time less megapixel.... Yep, IMX410 has 2-parallel ADC, this one has many many times more than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
androidlad Posted March 22, 2019 Author Share Posted March 22, 2019 3 hours ago, Nikkor said: With The Same Technology applied to large and to small Sensors, guess which one will have larger full well capacity and less rolling shutter. 100MP is total overkill for fullframe, when will you See diffraction? F5.6? Will they build in a focus stacking program for landscapes? Moving the ibis back and forth, using phase detection pixels to make a depthmap? I know they are not. What's the obsession with per-pixel FWC? Don't forget the pixels sit on a 36x24mm sensor, smaller pixels don't collect any less light, it's just there are more of them doing the same thing. this 100MP 2.91um pixel has a FWC of 32800e-, if we do a 2x2 binning and use it as a 25MP sensor, the FWC increases to 131200e-, which is significantly higher than 24MP A7 III 95764e-. Regarding diffraction, f/5.6 is a theoretical value yes, but in reality it's not clear cut like that https://fstoppers.com/education/5ds-f11-and-confusing-circles-68177 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towd Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 2 hours ago, androidlad said: What's the obsession with per-pixel FWC? Don't forget the pixels sit on a 36x24mm sensor, smaller pixels don't collect any less light, it's just there are more of them doing the same thing. Yeah, but in the spec you posted it says it does 6k readout through pixel binning/sub sampling. So it's throwing away data that could have been preserved. It just looks more like a chip designed by a marketing department than something to serve the needs of filmmakers. Granted it's for consumer devices and megapixels sell cameras, so it's not like I'm surprised. My experience has been that engineers have very little experience with end user needs, and that was my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
androidlad Posted March 22, 2019 Author Share Posted March 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Towd said: Yeah, but in the spec you posted it says it does 6k readout through pixel binning/sub sampling. So it's throwing away data that could have been preserved. I just looks to me more like a chip designed by a marketing department than something to serve the needs of filmmakers. Granted it's for consumer devices and megapixels sell cameras, so it's not like I'm surprised. My experience has been that engineers have very little experience with end user needs, and that was my point. It's a sensor designed for stills camera with video capability, and the key video spec is 4K RGB 444 with 3x3 colour-aware binning, nothing is thrown away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towd Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 Color aware binning that doesn't throw out data. Sounds cool. Would love to read the white paper on how they bin the data without throwing anything away. In the meantime my point stands that a lower megapixel sensor with the same capabilities would be more useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
androidlad Posted March 22, 2019 Author Share Posted March 22, 2019 44 minutes ago, Towd said: Color aware binning that doesn't throw out data. Sounds cool. Would love to read the white paper on how they bin the data without throwing anything away. In the meantime my point stands that a lower megapixel sensor with the same capabilities would be more useful. Yeah there's a 61MP 3.76um FF in the works. 100MP will be the cap for Sony FF sensor as Sony claims that their FF lenses "are designed to resolve 100MP". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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