Canon 5D Mark III vs Nikon D800 for video

[tungah]

EOS 5D Mark III ISO 12800 MOVIE

[url=http://vimeo.com/37879608]EOS 5D Mark III ISO 12800 MOVIE[/url]

What do you guys think?

[andycorleone]

[quote author=tungah link=topic=354.msg2212#msg2212 date=1330893794]
EOS 5D Mark III ISO 12800 MOVIE

[url=http://vimeo.com/37879608]EOS 5D Mark III ISO 12800 MOVIE[/url]

What do you guys think?
[/quote]

that can't be true,  if is it will make me rally sad about the 5DMK3, I seelost of details in the MKIII footage, I just did a test applying denoiser  (default settings) to MKII and  is better than the 5dMKIII in resolution.

[url=http://vimeo.com/37914980]Canon 5D MKII vs MKIII[/url]

[Andrew Reid]

Andy. Don't be such a negative man.  ??? I don't understand how you can put such a negative spin on performance like that. It is genuinely ground breaking. It is soft because of heavy compression for the web and the in-camera noise reduction (probably) turned up high.

Turn that off, and see what the 91Mbit ALL-I files look like before passing judgement on the fineness of noise grain and resolution.

To have ISO 12,800 that clean is extraordinary quite frankly and I don't understand all the insane anti-DSLR negativity around. Frankly wish they would shut up!

[andycorleone]

[quote author=Andrew Reid - EOSHD link=topic=354.msg2219#msg2219 date=1330904868]
Andy. Don't be such a negative man.  ??? I don't understand how you can put such a negative spin on performance like that. It is genuinely ground breaking. It is soft because of heavy compression for the web and the in-camera noise reduction (probably) turned up high.

Turn that off, and see what the 91Mbit ALL-I files look like before passing judgement on the fineness of noise grain and resolution.

To have ISO 12,800 that clean is extraordinary quite frankly and I don't understand all the insane anti-DSLR negativity around. Frankly wish they would shut up!
[/quote]

I really respect you man, reading you blog introduce me to the GH2 which I love, but to be honest I think this video is very disappointed.  that tree in the left is really soft even the gratify (or whatever is in the bottom of the mill) I'm just saying based in this poor quality video the 5d MKIII doesn't look really spectacular.

[markm]

Looked good to me The fact you can get a usable picture at iso 12800 as good as that is pretty remarkable. An extreme test that could be paving the way for what could be the next big thing!

[hq]

Thanks Andrew for the nice summary. This is my first post, and I'm a complete newbie to Video on DSLR. I have few questions that I hope members can answer or point me in the right direction.

[list type=decimal]
[*]It's clear from the definition that I-frame compression (also referred to as intra-frame or ALL-I) is superior to B-frame compression (inter-frame or IPB). But my question is how much better? Is it the same as RAW vs. JPEG?
[*]In your review, you mentioned "[i]D800 is doing a very bad job of downscaling to 1080p, since there’s moire on the sample videos[/i]" but you also contradict yourself by stating that non [Canon/Nikon] have uploaded full 1080p files, so it's difficult to judge - could the artifacts be from further compression for the "Web"?
[*]You mentioned the 5D has an amazing 91Mbit All-I, while I couldn't verify that, the specs mention "Variable (averaged) bit rate", so is 91Mbit the highest? [EDIT: Ok, I get it. [url=http://usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/slr_cameras/eos_5d_mark_iii#Specifications]635MB/s[/url] = 91.33Mbps.]
[*]D800 specs mention: [i]"Video compression: uses B-frame  1080p Full HD video at 30p in H.264/MPEG-4 AVC format with [b]unmatched moving image integrity[/b]"[/i] - I take it that's marketing fluff?
[*]The fine print in the [url=http://chsvimg.nikon.com/lineup/dslr/d800/pdf/d800_28p.pdf]D800 Brochure[/url] (page 17) says: "[i]*When video is output through HDMI interface simultaneously with recording to a CF/SD card, output image through HDMI interface will be smaller than 1,280 x 720.[/i]" - does that mean you cannot record AND output Full/Standard HD simultaneously? Do they also expect that those with an HDMI recorder will remove the CF/SD memory card from the camera before recording? I don't see how else you can start to shoot video without recording.
[*]Some websites claim that D800's uncompressed HDMI output is 8 bit, 4:2:2 - though no Nikon evidence to support that claim (yet?)
[*]How important is SMPTE timecode support (which the D800 does not support). Especially in light of software solutions (such as [url=http://www.singularsoftware.com/dualeyes.html]DualEyes[/url]) that solves(?) the sync video/audio sync problem?
[*]The 5D Mark III allows you to trim in 1s increments at the start/end of videos - wouldn't most people do that in post?
[*]You failed to mention that the 5D Mark III features a touch-sensitive rear dial - this could be a huge advantage while recording video to minimize unwanted camera movement.
[*]The 5D Mark III has a buffer capacity that allows 16,000 JPEGs to be recorded in burst. The D800 is limited to about ~100. While no one needs more than a 100, I'm sure some creatives will find a way to utilize the higher capacity.
[*]The 5D Mark III has an HDR mode which auto-aligns shots! So HDR can be shot hand-held! The camera also saves the original files (obviously) in addition to the HDR output.
[*]The D800 has a Time-lapse feature which creates a movie at the end of the sequence, but it DISCARDS the original files afterwards. However, if you shoot at Full Resolution with the built-in intervalometer, you could potentially create Time-lapse movies that are near 8K / UHDTV. (I'm not sure why Canon does not even include a simple built-in intervalometer in camera.)
[/list]

Thanks!

-hq

[sandro]

is it true they can't publish 1080p on the web?:|

[FilmMan]

Stream video from the net to a tv, such as a 50 inch.  If your laptop has hdmi out and your tv has hdmi input then it is very simple.  The difference is very apparent on the big screen.  The higher end video cameras, red, alexis, etc., do exhibit a superior picture.  The gap between "higher end" and "lower end" does show.  If Canon or Nikon, degraded the picture more than usual due to compression, perhaps the picture may be better than first perceived.  Maybe not.  In my opinion, Canon is setting the stage for further cameras.  Supposedly a lower end c300 version and higher c300 coming.  We'll see.  As consumers, there exists lots of confusion.  Wouldn't it be nice to have the same quality of a Sony F35, 1080P.  Nice to dream.

[gibbygoo]

[quote author=Germy1979 link=topic=354.msg2206#msg2206 date=1330875370]
[quote author=Germy1979 link=topic=354.msg2205#msg2205 date=1330874853]
... We still have yet to see a 4k DSLR...  The sad thing is, it will probably be as much, if not more than the 1DX $ wise..."


Dude,
If Canon unleashes a 4K DSLR for $7000 I will do cartwheels, as will most video producers. A functional Red Scarlet X fetches $16K. The only Q for many of us would be inclusion of a professional audio setup (XLR inputs, quality pre-amps, etc.) More likely it will cost around $12K--still good enough to kick the F3 to the curb, but not yet enough to produce buyers' remorse of the C300.

[gibbygoo]

[quote author=Johnnie link=topic=354.msg2192#msg2192 date=1330818464]
May I correct and say that in audio, edge goes to Canon and not to Nikon.

The D800 does not allow audio adjusting after pressing the rec button. Canon does!

Thanks.

Johnnie
[/quote]

OK. How about audio QUALITY? Funny how it never comes up in most forums. (Unless it's a q&a on how you can get pro audio with a toy zoom and a toy videomic for under $200 when in reality you can BARELY get into a pro audio kit with REAL equipment for $3K.)

DSLR pre-amps are crap. The recording quality is crap. No XLR inputs = toy. Period. Now with the moire fix, LACK of professional audio is the main hindrance to professional use of these cameras.

"But I can dual record and use Plural Eyes!"

Yeah, you can. Or you THINK you can. Until at some point you forget to hit the blinking red record button on your zoom toy. Or at some point you get a corrupted file with the cheap SD card. Or you just understand from the get-go that for day-to-day workflow, dual recording is a major PITA.

For the rest of us who actually pay our bills with our day-to-day video work, it's going to take a bit more than audio adjustment function to turn dslrs into A cams.

Sorry--not railing on you personally. Just bugs me that no gives a rat's ass about something that is actually more important to most video professionals than all this other stuff combined.

[Sara]

[quote author=gibbygoo link=topic=354.msg2512#msg2512 date=1331686339]
[quote author=Johnnie link=topic=354.msg2192#msg2192 date=1330818464]
May I correct and say that in audio, edge goes to Canon and not to Nikon.

The D800 does not allow audio adjusting after pressing the rec button. Canon does!

Thanks.

Johnnie
[/quote]

OK. How about audio QUALITY? Funny how it never comes up in most forums. (Unless it's a q&a on how you can get pro audio with a toy zoom and a toy videomic for under $200 when in reality you can BARELY get into a pro audio kit with REAL equipment for $3K.)

DSLR pre-amps are crap. The recording quality is crap. No XLR inputs = toy. Period. Now with the moire fix, LACK of professional audio is the main hindrance to professional use of these cameras.

"But I can dual record and use Plural Eyes!"

Yeah, you can. Or you THINK you can. Until at some point you forget to hit the blinking red record button on your zoom toy. Or at some point you get a corrupted file with the cheap SD card. Or you just understand from the get-go that for day-to-day workflow, dual recording is a major PITA.

For the rest of us who actually pay our bills with our day-to-day video work, it's going to take a bit more than audio adjustment function to turn dslrs into A cams.

Sorry--not railing on you personally. Just bugs me that no gives a rat's ass about something that is actually more important to most video professionals than all this other stuff combined.
[/quote]

While I agree with everything you said - on camera audio quality is really only important to run and gun / journalistic type videographers.  And with the new Rode mikes coming out like the Rode VideoMic HD (friend tried one at CES and love it) - it is even less of a concern.

The number of people who use the Zoom and new Olympus ([url=http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/830941-REG/Olympus_LS_100_LS_100_Multi_Track_PCM_Recorder.html]http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/830941-REG/Olympus_LS_100_LS_100_Multi_Track_PCM_Recorder.html[/url]) out number "on board audio guys" 100 to 1 (at least where I live).

So for manufactures to spend time and money (upping costs to consumers) on audio that could be handled better off camera .....doesn't make that much sense.

Remember film?  The same techniques are used today to capture audio - a few more steps but it really isn't that bad.

Cheers!