I voted for Raw recording on the R

[padam]

55 minutes ago, Snowbro said:

No, it has extremely bad rolling shutter in video. You really want to go all the way back to 2012? ?. Anyway, it sounds like you probably shouldn't stop at a 1.8x crop, hopefully canon will release a locked 8x crop for you one day! Btw, I owned the 1dx ii and eos r; I think the 1080p in the eos r looks very good, just not in 60p, it looks terrible in 60. 

No one is happy about the crop or the rolling shutter (I am sure you were very happy about Log in the 1DXII), it is just what one gets from Canon at this price range and it still looks quite decent, simple as that, the RP is just way too limited in every way for not a whole lot less money. Panasonic Sony or Nikon all do FF 4k with internal stabilisation, but somehow I just don't prefer how they look. They also don't have the lens selection and support that Canon has.

Looks very solid to me, rolling shuter or not.

I think that this external raw thing could be completely bogus anyway, since originally it was offered 10-bit 4:2:2 external recording(4k only, so no 1080p FF to fight the trolling shutter), but maybe it is one of those rare cases, where they do actually react to what's out there (but it could take a fair few months to update the firmware anyway, even ver. 1.2 is a month away).

If someone would crack the RF code and release a fully functional RF-EF focal reducer, for the EOS R (just like there is one for the M50), it would probably sell like crazy.

 

[BTM_Pix]

53 minutes ago, padam said:

If someone would crack the RF code and release a fully functional RF-EF focal reducer, for the EOS R (just like there is one for the M50), it would probably sell like crazy.

 

Commlite already have the electronics aspect done so only a matter of time for the optics to go in I suspect

http://m.commlite.com/product/30.html

[padam]

11 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

Commlite already have the electronics aspect done so only a matter of time for the optics to go in I suspect

http://m.commlite.com/product/30.html

Looks good, 0.71x would mean going back to 1DC levels of 4k crop and the extra stop makes it more similar to the 1DXII in low-light as well (but one stop brighter in daylight, it is fine for the trade-off, really)

[DBounce]

3 hours ago, padam said:

No one is happy about the crop or the rolling shutter (I am sure you were very happy about Log in the 1DXII), it is just what one gets from Canon at this price range and it still looks quite decent, simple as that, the RP is just way too limited in every way for not a whole lot less money. Panasonic Sony or Nikon all do FF 4k with internal stabilisation, but somehow I just don't prefer how they look. They also don't have the lens selection and support that Canon has.

Looks very solid to me, rolling shuter or not.

I think that this external raw thing could be completely bogus anyway, since originally it was offered 10-bit 4:2:2 external recording(4k only, so no 1080p FF to fight the trolling shutter), but maybe it is one of those rare cases, where they do actually react to what's out there (but it could take a fair few months to update the firmware anyway, even ver. 1.2 is a month away).

If someone would crack the RF code and release a fully functional RF-EF focal reducer, for the EOS R (just like there is one for the M50), it would probably sell like crazy.

 

It's easy for people especially in this forum to get hung up on specs, but I think the image, ease of use and reliability are more important than specs. The EOS R, IMO is the more organic of its' contemporaries. It's the only modern camera where users are actually turning up the sharpness in camera. I actually have come to love it; especially when working as a B or C can with the C200.

Raw would be great. Internal is nice, but external is better than nothing. I'll happily take it. 

I'm hoping for DCI with the 10 bit RawLite on the C200... the 8-bit is only UHD. I would also love to see DCI 4k on the R.

Who would've thunk it, Canon releasing feature updates. Let's hope it's true. 

[currensheldon]

What are the chances the C200 will get more compressed raw options rather than 10-bit 422? I'd much rather have this.

All these new raw codecs are great, but I don't really want to ProRes Raw because I don't use FCPX and Black Magic Raw is, IMO, way better due to having actually manageable file sizes, but I rarely use Da Vinci (though thinking about switching if enough editors I know switch as well - they probably won't). Weirdly enough, Canon's Raw Light is the most useable due to compatibility with Premiere. But, like ProRes Raw, isn't that helpful in the storage game.

But if Canon decides to update their Raw Light with different levels of compression (5:1, 8:1, and 12:1) and somehow can get that into the EOS R's raw out, things become very interesting. The EVA-1 + S1 is the combo I'm currently leaning towards, but these updates may switch it back to C200 + EOS R. 

Would also be great to see ProRes Raw get some more compression rates as well. But wider compatibility across editing platforms is way more important - the Atomos Ninja V ProRes Raw recording just isn't that interesting if it can only be used in FCPX. 

[andrgl]

Oh for fuck's sake Andrew. Your post somehow made it to my newsfeed titled "EOS R Getting External RAW Recording".

Canon will never give the EOS R that ability. It's not part of the Cine lineup. Be happy with Canon LOG.

[Django]

Never say never.. EOS R can already do 10-bit 4:2:2 external 4K, something even the C200 can't currently do.

It makes total sense to now give C200 10-bit 4:2:2 internal (especially since C300 III is soon upon us) and EOS-R external raw to counter Nikon.

Besides Canon strategy with mirrorless is for them to be complimentary B-cams to DSLR/Cine lines, they aren't in direct competition.

[Yurolov]

Is it just going to be to the new ninja v? 

[liork]

Only 103 votes after 3 days, this is a small market...

[Andrew Reid]

22 hours ago, DBounce said:

It's easy for people especially in this forum to get hung up on specs, but I think the image, ease of use and reliability are more important than specs. The EOS R, IMO is the more organic of its' contemporaries. It's the only modern camera where users are actually turning up the sharpness in camera. I actually have come to love it; especially when working as a B or C can with the C200.

Raw would be great. Internal is nice, but external is better than nothing. I'll happily take it. 

I'm hoping for DCI with the 10 bit RawLite on the C200... the 8-bit is only UHD. I would also love to see DCI 4k on the R.

Who would've thunk it, Canon releasing feature updates. Let's hope it's true. 

I agree that it's not always helpful to get hung up on specs and that ease of use, reliability, feel, ergonomics are more important.

Here's my opinion: the EOS R is a dog in this regard. It's not easy to use, it's not reliable and it's not got good ergonomics at all.

The crop harms usability because all your videos end up looking different to stills, or you have to use a zoom to compensate for the different FOV, or step backwards yards and completely re-frame. So if you're doing a video/stills hybrid shoot, it's a poor choice. The rolling shutter is a problem for anything that isn't a static subject.

Lack of effective 5 axis IBIS hurts it for hand-held video work and the digital version warps and crops even further, on top of more distortion from rolling shutter it is not very natural or organic.

Reliability - that top LCD is a serious weak spot. Cracks very easily. The lenses have externally moving elements for focus on the most part - even the expensive 50mm F1.2L R. Dated and noisy, and weather sealing isn't up to professional standards.

Switching quickly between video and stills mode is a fiddly chore and Dual Pixel AF is no longer the best especially with the 35mm F1.8 R and 50mm F1.2L R and their grinding moving front elements. Needs lenses with internal focus to work at its best and quietest, which it rarely does.

Yes, the image in C-LOG is nice, colour science is good, as is white balance and the codec. Like you I prefer to have an image with no excess digital sharpening and don't mind soft, cinematic 4K that doesn't fatigue your eye when the picture moves. It doesn't lack for detail unless you're a pixel peeper using a chart and not watching the film or content. So the image isn't so much the problem - the rest is.

But the E-M1X is a far superior hybrid camera.

[ade towell]

Thanks for the honest appraisal of the Eos-r Andrew, kind of how I felt with only a short play with the camera but confirmation is very much appreciated 

[currensheldon]

After using the EOS R for three weeks straight on a shoot, I started to grow comfortable with it and ended up liking it (for the moist part). Granted, we shot in HD, so the crop wasn't an issue. Image definitely seems soft after shooting with the C200 and GH5 for a couple of years - but adding a bit of sharpening in post helps.. Also moving the focus point with the touchscreen sucks - I missed the joystick way more than I thought it would. The touch bar is terrible and I just ended up locking it. No stabilization was also a bummer as I had gotten used to the GH5 stabilization really helping in gimbal and handheld work. 

By FAR, the best part of the EOS R is the new variable ND adapter. That is a true game-changer. (Sigma needs to make a drop-in variable ND for L-Mount).

Other than that, however, I'm excited for my Panasonic S1 to come in so I can pair it up with my GH5. That's a combo I'm excited about. Also I shoot 90% of my work in 4K, so I'm sure the EOS R would start to drive me crazy with its crop - thought I do own the three good APS-C lenses for EF mount for my C200 (18-35mm, 50-100mm, 17-55mm).

--

Really looking forward to see what happens at NAB with the C200 and EOS R, but if things stay the same or just slight upgrades (like C200 gets 8-bit 422...), I may end my half-in, half-out middle ground of Canon & Panasonic and go full Panny. 

But if Nikon Z6 and Canon EOS R both get raw out, then Panasonic needs to update the S1 faster than July (for V-Log and 10-bit internal) and also get raw out as well. 

[Django]

I respectfully disagree with Andrew.. especially ergonomics, reliability & ease of use.

Switching between stills and video couldn't be easier: just press the video record button.

Top LCD a weak spot? how so? DSLRs have used them for decades with no particular issue..

Btw the RF 50mm F1.2  focuses internally, it doesn't have external focus movement.

The 4K crop & RS do suck. That said for shooting interviews or even narrative static B-cam shots on sticks I don't see it as an issue.

EIS on level 1 doesn't have any warping and in combination with lens stab pretty much gives 5-axis control.

Now I'm not saying EOS R is perfect or the best camera out there, in fact for FF 4K or HFR shooters it's straight up lame.

But again I find ergonomics, reliability & ease of use definitely strong points compared to my experience with Sony, Fuji & Nikon.

I also fail to see how the EM1X could be considered a superior hybrid, especially on the photo / lens side.

[currensheldon]

1 hour ago, Django said:

I also fail to see how the EM1X could be considered a superior hybrid, especially on the photo / lens side.

On two recent jobs, I had to do both photo and video. The first one I used the GH5, second I used the EOS R. More than anything else, the EOS R photos are BY FAR superior to the MFT sensor on the GH5. I was blown away by the stills quality. I did miss the GH5 on the video shoot and like using that camera more than the EOS R, but the EOS R on a handheld gimbal in HD with a stabilized lens is pretty great (dual pixel AF is great). 

But, for sure, the EOS R seems much better than anything in the MFT world for sheer still image quality. 

[DBounce]

Can't agree with @Andrew Reidon much of what was written. Olympus menus are notoriously bad. Af in video is not usable. And $3k for M43 is a joke. 

Ergonomics on EOS R are very good. Menus are typical Canon. The crop may not be ideal,  and the rolling shutter may not be the best,  but the above video is filled with moving shots,  and looks pretty darn good. So clearly,  in the right hands the camera can produce great imagery. 

I can't speak to the 50 f1.2 or the 35mm f1.8, as I do not own them. But the 16-35 f4 and 24-105 R lens are lovely to work with. The ND adapter is awesome with no color cast. 

The camera is as solid as any of it's rivals. I don't miss M43... GH5/S sorry. Not craving  P4K. If you work within its limitations it will not disappoint. 

Until the pro body comes out, I'm good to go. 

My next focus is lighting. I have a set of Hive Lighting Bee 50-c and Wasp 100-c arriving tomorrow. I played with them briefly in the past and those bad boys up the game considerably. 

[Snowbro]

I also found the usability much more cumbersome on the eos r, vs a 5d or 1dx. I did custom shooting modes and programmed buttons. 

[plucas]

What are the chances, do you think, that if CRAW or ProsRes RAW comes to the EOS R, that Canon will open up the full sensor (hence, remove the crop)?

If image processing is the major reason for the crop, is it not technically possible for a RAW image over HDMI to free the EOS R from that limitation (i.e. the crop)?

[liork]

16 hours ago, DBounce said:

Olympus menus are notoriously bad. Af in video is not usable

Olympus switched to video Phase focus with the E-M1x, so its much better than that of the E M1 II.

[Andrew Reid]

22 hours ago, Django said:

I respectfully disagree with Andrew.. especially ergonomics, reliability & ease of use.

Switching between stills and video couldn't be easier: just press the video record button.

Several problems there. Stills mode is full frame, you cannot accurately frame for 4K video in stills mode, unless you cripple stills mode to a low resolution APS-C mode.

Canon LOG is unavailable when shooting video with the record button in a stills mode.

A work-around is to set the record button up to trigger custom movie mode C3, but these preset settings may differ to the stills mode you're using in the moment. I have my C3 movie mode set up in Aperture priority but if I am in manual stills mode, bye bye exposure when I hit record (and a completely different FOV). Visa versa, C3 set to manual, what if I want aperture priority mode for both stills and video? I have to deep dive the menus and reset all my C3 settings? It's ABSURD. Switching to fully fledged video mode is a sub-menu job and if you don't assign your preferred video mode to C3, the record button in stills mode will shoot movies without Canon LOG. Compared to established non-crippled usability standards on the competition this is ridiculously bad.

22 hours ago, Django said:

Top LCD a weak spot? how so? DSLRs have used them for decades with no particular issue..

Dave Maze's cracked in first few weeks. It's delicate non-reinforced cheap plastic.

22 hours ago, Django said:

Btw the RF 50mm F1.2  focuses internally, it doesn't have external focus movement.

It is not internal focus. I have the lens. You don't. If you had even even used one, you'll see (and hear) the grinding, heavy front element moving significantly forth and back as it focuses and you can even feel the weight of the glass shifting forward and backwards as you go about shooting.

The lens is on loan and is going back, by the way. I have no interest in keeping it.

22 hours ago, Django said:

The 4K crop & RS do suck. That said for shooting interviews or even narrative static B-cam shots on sticks I don't see it as an issue.

So you're saying it's good for an extremely limited range of filmmaking then.

22 hours ago, Django said:

EIS on level 1 doesn't have any warping and in combination with lens stab pretty much gives 5-axis control.

It does have warping... all sorts of motion artefacts in fact.

I also find that EIS can get confused by motion in the scene and move the entire frame according to a moving object in the shot!

22 hours ago, Django said:

Now I'm not saying EOS R is perfect or the best camera out there, in fact for FF 4K or HFR shooters it's straight up lame.

But again I find ergonomics, reliability & ease of use definitely strong points compared to my experience with Sony, Fuji & Nikon.

I also fail to see how the EM1X could be considered a superior hybrid, especially on the photo / lens side.

You will see how superior the E-M1X is when I review it this week sir.

[Mattias Burling]

24 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Canon LOG is unavailable when shooting video with the record button in a stills mode.

Not correct. LOG is available.

24 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Several problems there. Stills mode is full frame, you cannot accurately frame for 4K video in stills mode,

Personally I shoot HD on all stills cameras (Sony, Fuji, etc) because of rolling shutter. The EOS-R has no RS in HD. So it is full frame for me.
(4K on these consumer stills cameras doesn't make any sense for me for other reasons as well like file size, computer power and that no one can see the difference anyway. Not online and not on the big screen. So I dont bother, 4K better be on a real camera or not at all. But if one must have 4K I agree, framing would be difficult if one isn't quick enough.)

23 hours ago, Django said:

Switching between stills and video couldn't be easier: just press the video record button.

Agreed. Never seen a camera with easier transitions between video and stills. Its one of the main reasons I pre-ordered one and later bought one for my employer as well.

For me there was simply to many upsides. Biggest and most affordable lens line in history, top display, ergonomics, no RS, Full Frame video with C-log, Canon colors, 30mp stills, 8fps Raw continuous AF with a huge buffer, DPAF for stills (loved it since the 6Dmkii), good EVF, and more. All at a competitive price.

I totally get why some choose an A7iii, Z6, S1, GH5, etc instead. We all have different needs. But trying to dismiss the R as being "bad" or calling anyone that find it useful a "fool" or "zombie" is just being totally naive, a fanboy or a troll.