I voted for Raw recording on the R

[liork]

[Kisaha]

7 hours ago, Django said:

..And I'm amazed by the backlash against anybody that is ok shooting a Canon camera.. 

Nobody ever claimed it was the best camera out there.. I even specifically said if you are a 4K only shooter, it is probably among the worst.

But yes some people may use it mainly as a FF photography tool, others may shoot FF HD,  4K on gimbals/sticks, or as a B-cam to a 1DX2/C100/200..etc

Yes these cases do exist, and for those who use it like that, its a logical choice. Now do I wish it had a global shutter with 10-bit 4:2:2 internal and 4K120p? 

Sure but it doesn't so you kinda work around it.. the ergonomics, color science, codec, AF, lens lineup are usually what draw people to Canon in the first place.

The limitations of EOS R have been spoken to death since launch, I don't really understand the need to repeat them ad nauseam every other post of any Canon related news.

Its like Groundhog Day... can't we ever try and focus on anything positive around here? External raw is the topic of the day.. 

I am just saying you do not have to go to great extents to "defend" these cameras because you are loosing "credibility".

We all agree that modern cameras are good enough for most things, trying to stretch your (ours) logic to make it seem better than it is, is a futile excersice to abnormality.

These 2 R cameras are their worst in class. Be happy using them, but there are better solutions out there for almost everyone.

I own already a camera with better ergononics, better menu system, un breakable top screen, Fn functions on lenses and already amazing color science, and it is called NX1..but that was 5 years ago..

[Snowbro]

I think if the eos r came out in 2016, it would be fine at its price or a little higher. I just have a problem with its performance at the current price point. It just is very annoying that they didn't release a true pro body yet;  it sounds like they won't until mid to late 2020, two years after the eos r release... 

[colepat]

I personally shoot on a XT-3 and at work they have a C200. In the past I have shot on a GH5, A6300, and GX7. I've loved every camera.

I've been tempted to get a EOS-R quite a few times– even over my XT-3. That EF-R variable ND adapter is so tempting. It seems like it does great at what it's capable of– definitely not the most spec'd out camera and maybe not even the most well designed camera, but I honestly think it can be a pretty useful tool.

For me though, I'm sticking with the XT-3 for now. Would be pretty cool if they got external RAW on the EOS-R, would be even better if it came to the XT-3 (darn sensor). 

[DBounce]

3 hours ago, liork said:

Yeah, but did you notice that this thread is about the EOS R and C200? And guess who came along to give their two cents as to why everything else under the sun is better and why the EOS R is crap? 

Upside down much? What color is the sky in your world?

[liork]

So in this case, read it from bottom up ?

But, seriously, it took it from elsewhere, but its shocking to find same statements here. For example, looks like many EOS R users state they do not want or need to shoot 4K video. 

[Michael Steiner]

4 hours ago, liork said:

Many of us somehow absurdly get emotionally attached to the tools we use (I include myself to that group). And then we start heated discussions and some of us post memes with a user group shitting all over the place. So in order to continue the discussion run in circles let me add my few cents as a user of canon cameras and lenses:  

Sure, the canon tools loose most of the spec-wars. So like all other canon users I must be a fool to keep giving them my money? 

I entered the canon eco-system back in 2008 or 2009 when I bought a 60D. I added some lenses, batteries and other accessories and eventually stepped up to the C100 when I decided to create videos professionally. Yes, even in 2018 that good old C100 with its crappy 30 Mbs ACHD-codec produced beautiful images that payed my bills and made my customers happy. It would do so even in 2019, but in an ongoing project I have the need for 4K capture so I sold my C100 for a good price and replaced it with a C200 (I considered a switch to Panasonic but did not like the EVA1 too much and the Varicam LT was too expensive). As B-cameras I have used the 60D, the 80D and now use the M50. I do know there are better alternatives from other brands in that form factor. But the additional work to match colors in post, the need for other accessories and the time I'd need to learn and get used to a new system aren't worth those technical improvements for me.

I know my tools in and out, I know what they can achieve and what not. And I know there's a service-facility 20 minutes away that will take care of any issue without the need to send the camera to another continent and wait for several weeks or even months. That for me are important factors... 

From my point of view bit depth, bitrate, color sampling, color science, crop factor (starting from MFT) and resolution (starting from FHD) determine maybe the last 5% of the quality of motion pictures. If we mess up all other aspects like focus, lightning, audio, camera movement, composition etc., the best specs in these 5% will not save our shots. So while it is fun to discuss these aspects of a camera and sometimes fight over them, I think all in all they are still negligible to a higher degree than most other factors. 

Maybe if I was younger and bought my first camera in the last 3 or 4 years I'd be all in on another brand. But here I am, a happy user of technically inferior cameras form that c-brand that sometimes tends to disagree with all the bashing these tools get in the WWW...

We all tell stories with pictures. That's what we have in common no matter what brands we use. And frankly we live in the best of times to do that. 

Cheers

Oh and by the way: Mr. Reids EOSHD C-Log is also one of the reasons I'm able to keep using the M50 as an acceptable B-Cam to the C200. So to a degree it's his fault I keep being a happy Canon-user ?

[Django]

On 4/2/2019 at 10:47 AM, Kisaha said:

I am just saying you do not have to go to great extents to "defend" these cameras because you are loosing "credibility".

We all agree that modern cameras are good enough for most things, trying to stretch your (ours) logic to make it seem better than it is, is a futile excersice to abnormality.

These 2 R cameras are their worst in class. Be happy using them, but there are better solutions out there for almost everyone.

I own already a camera with better ergononics, better menu system, un breakable top screen, Fn functions on lenses and already amazing color science, and it is called NX1..but that was 5 years ago..

It's kind of ironic you state that about me when you yourself have been hyping to death on every post occasion... a dead camera system! 

I could just as well say to you: Be happy using it, but there are better solutions out there for almost everyone. I mean when is the last time i saw a NX  shooter in the wild? Oh yeah: Never.

But see, just like you with NX1, for my personal use Canon is the better system. Of course a Sony / Panasonic / Nikon user will tell you the same thing about their systems.

Its the way the world works, we have different preferences. What I find annoying/sad is when people feel the need to put down others for their preferred choices.

You don't see me in Sony threads posting memes, bashing users or saying how far behind their non weather-sealed, 100mb Long-GOP codec, 8-bit out, zombie color MILC's are.

That would be considered trolling. Yet when that happens in a Canon thread, it's accepted as normal behaviour... go figure.

[Kisaha]

27 minutes ago, Django said:

It's kind of ironic you state that about me when you yourself have been hyping to death on every post occasion... a dead camera system! 

I could just as well say to you: Be happy using it, but there are better solutions out there for almost everyone.

But see, just like you with NX1, for my personal use EOS R is the better MILC. Of course a Sony / Panasonic / Nikon user will tell you the same thing about their system.

Its the way the world works, we have different preferences. What I find annoying/sad is when people feel the need to put down others for their preferred choices.

You don't see me in Sony threads posting memes, bashing users or saying how far behind their non weather-sealed, 100mb Long-GOP codec, 8-bit out, zombie color MILC's are.

That would be considered trolling. Yet when that happens in a Canon thread, it's accepted as normal behaviour... go figure.

This dead system is equal or better than Canon mirrorless systems (2 of those by the way), 3 years after its "demise" and for a wee tiny portion of the money you need to build something similar on R.

Even the 4K crop is less..

Go figure..

P.S we don't put anyone down, when - for a rather expensive camera - you do not care about a HUGE crop factor, the just limited native lens options, sub par ergonomics (for a Canon), an unusual high price (yeah, again), one of the highest RS then maybe you under value the argument.

And who is really "trolling"? Someone who states the facts, like @Andrew Reid did, and I agreed? Or someone that "lowers the standards of the earth", so to make a sub par camera look amazing (Bill Hicks line from the Vanilla Ice scetch!).

[Django]

Ok... i'm going to go on a PS4 forum now to talk about how the Sega Dreamcast was the best gaming system ever made! Have a good day  

[Kisaha]

1 minute ago, Django said:

Ok... i'm going to go on a PS4 forum now to talk about how the Sega Dreamcast was the best gaming system ever made! Have a good day  

Ok, it is sad to take this conversation further, but even sadder is the fact that a dead system right now is better in almost everything the R has to offer. 

I am watching right now the footage I took for a corporate this morning on my OLED TV, shot on NX1 - Vivid profile (notched down a bit) and the image is just amazing, and I have already shot and view on 2 GH5 and a JVC LS300 this week and A7Sii and Canon 5Diii last week.

NX1 will be the Dreamcast soon-ish, but right now the R is just a PS3, and the PS5 is ready to launch.

[Mattias Burling]

On 4/1/2019 at 3:39 PM, Andrew Reid said:

But you're kinda implying 4K isn't relevant in 2019

Im not just implying, Im straight up saying, 4K in these consumer stills cameras EOS-R, Z6, GH5, XT3 and Sony A7iii (I don't even list the NX1 because it can't compete) is not yet relevant and not the end all feature people make it out to be.

Either way, since the tweet was removed this is nothing but yet another tiresome Sony apology thread. 

Out.

On 4/1/2019 at 3:39 PM, Andrew Reid said:

So you cannot shoot in 4K Canon LOG, 

If its still under warranty send it in because its broken. I can have log with my predetermined video settings and jump to it form any stills mode by just hitting record

[DBounce]

6 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

Ok, it is sad to take this conversation further, but even sadder is the fact that a dead system right now is better in almost everything the R has to offer. 

I am watching right now the footage I took for a corporate this morning on my OLED TV, shot on NX1 - Vivid profile (notched down a bit) and the image is just amazing, and I have already shot and view on 2 GH5 and a JVC LS300 this week and A7Sii and Canon 5Diii last week.

NX1 will be the Dreamcast soon-ish, but right now the R is just a PS3, and the PS5 is ready to launch.

The NX1 was great... back in the day. And back in the day I owned one with their S lens. But even then, I hated how the image moved. Something about the motion cadence looked very video to my eyes. Also dynamic range was less than great, with blacks being crushed. The S lens 16-50 was great, but the system was limited. Also the codec was not exactly edit friendly at the time. No way I would go back to the NX1.

On the upside, the UI was great. Clearly a node to Samsung’s experience in smartphones. The NX1 was a hybrid and as on the video side, on the stills side the Canon easily murders it. That’s not to say it was not capable of capturing great pictures. But the Canon is the superior tool. 

I would have loved to see a sequel... but there’s already a thread about that.

[Mattias Burling]

2 minutes ago, DBounce said:

The NX1 was great... back in the day.

Even then it was so and so. Video sure. But stills.....

[DBounce]

4 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

Im not just implying, Im straight up saying, 4K in these consumer stills cameras EOS-R, Z6, GH5, XT3 and Sony A7iii (I don't even list the NX1 because it can't compete) is not yet relevant and not the end all feature people make it out to be.

Either way, since the tweet was removed this is nothing but yet another tiresome Sony apology thread. 

Out.

If its still under warranty send it in because its broken. I can have log with my predetermined video settings and jump to it form any stills mode by just hitting record

You can send 10 bit 4K log out via hdmi. I don’t think internal log is an option. But I’d have to check. Mine lives connected to the Ninja V.

[Vision]

56 minutes ago, DBounce said:

You can send 10 bit 4K log out via hdmi. I don’t think internal log is an option. But I’d have to check. Mine lives connected to the Ninja V.

hows image quality on it paired with ninja v ?

[Django]

On the topic of 4K, while perhaps not best in class it is certainly usable, even commercially. Case in point, I was on a paid shoot yesterday with C100 & EOS R. 

EOS R was mainly used for product stills shots but it also served as a 4K B-cam for close-ups ( the 1.8x crop giving extra reach to my 35mm 1.4L):

Cropping in even further in-cam via "crop mode" gave almost macro ability to my otherwise normal lens:

I've become quite a fan of this cropping technique allowing just one quality prime lens to double or triple its focal range (another reason why i'm seriously considering picking up Leica Q2). Makes the lens/camera bag lighter too which is always a good thing when you're flying solo with already 4 LEDs, stands, tripods etc..

I already know some of you will say I'm a Canon apologist, touting a limitation as a "feature" or call this being "lazy" but whatever for me its "creative use" haha 

..sometimes less is more ( i swear folks i am not being paid by Canon or getting a free trip to Hawaii for saying this!  )

[Kisaha]

51 minutes ago, Django said:

..sometimes less is more ( i swear folks i am not being paid by Canon or getting a free trip to Hawaii for saying this!  )

I can do that with my 699€ (for the kit with 2 batteries, 16-50PZ and the charger back in 2015) ΝΧ500 4Κ crop!

But seriously, I really want to buy an R camera to use all the EF(-S) glass I own or have available, but Canon just can't justify my purchase, even though the EF - ND adapter is a brilliant idea.

I really wanted the RP to be a great - cheap - camera, but it is unbelievable crippled, and - for my case - even the R right now doesn't offer me a significant gain.

So better spend my budget on a more video orientated camera (probably the P4K), and use as hybrids and B, C, D, E cameras, the system I own already (4 NX cameras, 8 lenses, all the accessories), and see how it goes.

All cameras are great, no question about it. 

Peace dudes!

 

 

[Andrew Reid]

3 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

Im not just implying, Im straight up saying, 4K in these consumer stills cameras EOS-R, Z6, GH5, XT3 and Sony A7iii (I don't even list the NX1 because it can't compete) is not yet relevant and not the end all feature people make it out to be.

In what context is 4K irrelevant in 2019?

If you have a paid job and the client requests it to be shot in 4K, it's irrelevant?

If you're an artist and want to future-proof your work so that it looks good on future large format display technologies in the home, it's irrelevant?

If you're an enthusiast and you don't want the compromises to the image from pixel binning, with moire and aliasing in a soft 1080p image, are you really suggesting their concerns and needs are completely irrelevant, regardless of whether they need 4K resolution or will deliver in 4K resolution, that need for a cleaner image is irrelevant?

Quote

If its still under warranty send it in because its broken. I can have log with my predetermined video settings and jump to it form any stills mode by just hitting record

Predetermined video settings on C3 triggered on movie record button is not the same as jumping into video mode from your stills mode and keeping same exposure and stills shooting mode for the recording, for all the reasons I explained in prior posts.

Fact of the matter is you cannot even select Canon LOG in the menus when in stills mode.

So let's suggest we are in Aperture priority mode for photos... And you want to record a 4K clip with Canon LOG... Only way to do that is to assign preset video settings to C3 and assign that mode to the record button. It will override whatever stills exposure mode you are in and might not match your intentions. It's shiiiiiit.

I agree with you on a lot else but you don't have talk a lot of crap sometimes Mattias when it comes to video.

[Django]

@Andrew Reid it does work in 4K if you have C3 set up with log activated. (nevermind i see you edited your post)

1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

I can do that with my 699€ (for the kit with 2 batteries, 16-50PZ and the charger back in 2015) ΝΧ500 4Κ crop!

 

Cool. No doubt the NX cams were very forward thinking when it came to video but still I personally wouldn't pick one up even if they were still available.

I need FF for stills with native support for my EF glass. EOS R gets me closest to that in a mirrorless form. Can't wait to get the Vari-ND for even better versatility.

Also doubt the NX (or even any other current MILC) could give me such reliable & effortless object tracking like i needed yesterday to perform slider shots on small watch parts.