I voted for Raw recording on the R

[DBounce]

55 minutes ago, KitaCam said:

Now if the C200 gets it's hinted Clog3 4K 60fps 10Bit 4:2:2 upgrade (manageable file sizes) then great as the C200 can therefore enable HDR content creation without having to acquire in RAW?

Sorry, not sure I get this. Pure RAW is the holy grail for quality I take it. CRM is Canon RAW lite but still massive in my experience so RAW would be on another scale. However, BRAW offers various levels of compression (Great - Canon should follow suit if possible?) and ProRes Raw results in just smaller more manageable RAW files in general (great again, Canon could take a leaf here and offer ProRes Raw - fat chance you might say).

The C200 can already shoot at 4k 60p in 10-bit. 24p is upto 12-bit. No update needed. But 10-bit is only in RawLite. 

Raw is great, when you are dealing with HDR scenarios. But if shooting under controlled lighting conditions it's overkill. 

[plucas]

If the EOS R RAW and C200 4:2:2 were coming at NAB, Canon would have announced them by now?

[DBounce]

1 hour ago, plucas said:

If the EOS R RAW and C200 4:2:2 were coming at NAB, Canon would have announced them by now?

Canon already stated that the tweet was a mistake. 

[plucas]

Sure. Some took that tweet as a cover of sorts. Who, for example, speaks about RAW photography in terms of "RAW recording"?

Similarly, the 4:2:2 for the C200 was an independent rumor from Canon Rumors.

[zerocool22]

7 hours ago, DBounce said:

Canon already stated that the tweet was a mistake. 

oh really.... that sucks....
 

[liork]

8 hours ago, DBounce said:

Canon already stated that the tweet was a mistake. 

Have the Russians broke into Canon's account?

[Django]

Total snoozefest at NAB this year with no exciting announcements from anyone.. 

Atomos CEO did hint at ProRes Raw support from over 20 cameras across various companies by next year although hard to know if that's just wishful thinking at this point.

[kaylee]

BORING

i want more exciting announcements!!! ?

[zerocool22]

36 minutes ago, kaylee said:

BORING

i want more exciting announcements!!! ?

Yeah was hoping on at least a7S iii, canon dslr 10bit/prores raw or 4K ff.. or c200 with new codecs.

[Danyyyel]

So is Canon Raw on EOSR already out? LOL only fools would have believed that, I can't understand how people, more so adult, can be dupe that easily. Its been like 8 years people are wishing and wishing on Canon to do XYZ, to come out with something out-breaking. And every time they just come out frustrated. If you can't understand simple economic principle, that Canon won't jeopardize their Cine line for their DSLR line, you just deserve to be duped. You either move to their Cine line or you have other Manufacturers from Nikon to Black magic etc that are doing so much more.

[zerocool22]

23 minutes ago, Danyyyel said:

So is Canon Raw on EOSR already out? LOL only fools would have believed that, I can't understand how people, more so adult, can be dupe that easily. Its been like 8 years people are wishing and wishing on Canon to do XYZ, to come out with something out-breaking. And every time they just come out frustrated. If you can't understand simple economic principle, that Canon won't jeopardize their Cine line for their DSLR line, you just deserve to be duped. You either move to their Cine line or you have other Manufacturers from Nikon to Black magic etc that are doing so much more.

Canon is losing a lot of sales to other manufacturers, so at some point they will be forced to do something as more and more users are searching for hybrid cameras as video importance has increased massively over the years. 

My only hope now is that Magic lantern hacks the eos R or 5D IV. So I can buy into canon video again. (still own a 6D just for stills) 

[Danyyyel]

Loosing from whom, from what I can see they still reign supreme in the DSLR market, and they were also doing quite well in the overall mirror-less market with their M50 etc. From the latest market watch I saw that they had like 15-20% FF ML market with the EOSR. That's with only one body. So my conclusion is that it is not today that they will change, you will sill be 2-3 generation behind. Now will the ML hack cure the Jello, my guess not and I am not even talking about reliability and practicality (File size). In  3-6 month Nikon will come out with a solution that will kick the ass of any ML Hack Canon camera. Unless you are deeply invested in Canon glass and this will be a big big brake to you advancing unless you go Cine Line, or you are satisfied shooting 1080p.

 

[DBounce]

1 hour ago, Danyyyel said:

Loosing from whom, from what I can see they still reign supreme in the DSLR market, and they were also doing quite well in the overall mirror-less market with their M50 etc. From the latest market watch I saw that they had like 15-20% FF ML market with the EOSR. That's with only one body. So my conclusion is that it is not today that they will change, you will sill be 2-3 generation behind. Now will the ML hack cure the Jello, my guess not and I am not even talking about reliability and practicality (File size). In  3-6 month Nikon will come out with a solution that will kick the ass of any ML Hack Canon camera. Unless you are deeply invested in Canon glass and this will be a big big brake to you advancing unless you go Cine Line, or you are satisfied shooting 1080p.

 

Raw is not magic.. It's nice to have when in challenging lighting conditions. It's not something that is practical to shoot with all the time for most users. After owning the Nikon Z6 for a couple of months, I can honestly tell you, I do not miss it. The image was not as pleasing to my eyes as that of the EOS R. That said, when I buy a camera, I do so not in anticipation of some feature being added in the future, but rather for what it can do at the time when it lands in my hands.

Options are nice to have... Raw on the EOS R would have  been a compelling feature for many. Personally, I would have been more excited to see the missing 10 bit codec added to the C200. That would have allowed me to shoot 10 bit rather than 8 bit for the bulk of the video that I do. I also believe it would have been a major boost to C200 sales. And by that token may have enhanced EOS R sales. But we all know that with Canon features seldom, if ever, change after the release.

[Kisaha]

4 hours ago, DBounce said:

Options are nice to have... Raw on the EOS R would have  been a compelling feature for many. Personally, I would have been more excited to see the missing 10 bit codec added to the C200. That would have allowed me to shoot 10 bit rather than 8 bit for the bulk of the video that I do. I also believe it would have been a major boost to C200 sales. And by that token may have enhanced EOS R sales. But we all know that with Canon features seldom, if ever, change after the release.

100% 

The non 10 bit codec is a huge ommision for such a camera. Yesterday shot a corporate with a C200 (and some Edelkrone stuff with an 5DmkIII!) because this specific director always asks for Canon, just Canon, doesn't know a thing about specs and stuff, just the brand, Canon. 

I felt compromised!

 

[currensheldon]

Was holding out hope, but after using the S1 (vs the EOS R), I'm going full Panasonic for the foreseeable future (the S1 is AWESOME). The EVA-1 is approved by all, has amazing, wide variety of codecs, and is an all around stellar camera (will need to shell out $300-400 for a monitor of course). I'm even starting to prefer Panasonic's color science to Canon's.

The EVA-1 + the S1 + the GH5 is a great three-camera lineup Panasonic has going. Excited to see them move their low-end cinema line over to L-Mount and, hopefully, an MFT mount camera too.

It would be great to either have an EVA Mini MFT with the GH5/6 being the B-Cam, or an EVA-2 L-Mount with the S1 as a B-Cam. 

[Django]

53 minutes ago, currensheldon said:

The EVA-1 + the S1 + the GH5 is a great three-camera lineup Panasonic has going. Excited to see them move their low-end cinema line over to L-Mount and, hopefully, an MFT mount camera too.

It would be great to either have an EVA Mini MFT with the GH5/6 being the B-Cam, or an EVA-2 L-Mount with the S1 as a B-Cam. 

..it would be great.. except none of those cams have been announced either and so what you are looking at currently in Panasonic ecosystem is 3 camera lines with 3 different sensor sizes and 3 different mounts... over an alliance of 3 different lens manufacturers. that is such a convoluted mess imo, and a nightmare as far as lens pairing.. 

panasonic make great cameras, but their ecosystem is by far the worst!

[currensheldon]

1 hour ago, Django said:

..it would be great.. except none of those cams have been announced either and so what you are looking at currently in Panasonic ecosystem is 3 camera lines with 3 different sensor sizes and 3 different mounts... over an alliance of 3 different lens manufacturers. that is such a convoluted mess imo, and a nightmare as far as lens pairing.. 

panasonic make great cameras, but their ecosystem is by far the worst!

Haha it's true. It's a total mount disaster and they need to get it together. 

Not terrible for me right now because I use mostly the Sigma 18-35mm, Sigma 50-100mm, and Sigma 24-70mm on the EVA-1 and then use those same lenses with a speedbooster on the GH5. I have a couple MFT lenses for when I want to go small, but for all professional work, the Sigma 18-35mm pretty much lives on the GH5.

Plan to do the same with the MC-21 adapter on the S1. 

---

I thought I could live without the stabilization of the GH5, but for smaller cameras, it is just too much of a leg up. The S1 is the first truly useable and solid full-frame IBIS I've used (haven't tried Nikon's). And with the XLR adapter, Panasonic has so many fewer compromises than Canon or Sony. Will just have to use my EF lenses for awhile longer. Not a huge deal. 

[DBounce]

2 hours ago, currensheldon said:

Haha it's true. It's a total mount disaster and they need to get it together. 

Not terrible for me right now because I use mostly the Sigma 18-35mm, Sigma 50-100mm, and Sigma 24-70mm on the EVA-1 and then use those same lenses with a speedbooster on the GH5. I have a couple MFT lenses for when I want to go small, but for all professional work, the Sigma 18-35mm pretty much lives on the GH5.

Plan to do the same with the MC-21 adapter on the S1. 

---

I thought I could live without the stabilization of the GH5, but for smaller cameras, it is just too much of a leg up. The S1 is the first truly useable and solid full-frame IBIS I've used (haven't tried Nikon's). And with the XLR adapter, Panasonic has so many fewer compromises than Canon or Sony. Will just have to use my EF lenses for awhile longer. Not a huge deal. 

I have mixed feelings about the S1 color science.  Seems to bias yellows. Also I feel the skintones can look a bit plastic at times. AF is something I would miss all of the time. Panasonic dropped the ball on that.  

I'm not tempted in the slightest. 

[amanieux]

On 4/10/2019 at 3:04 PM, Danyyyel said:

So is Canon Raw on EOSR already out? LOL only fools would have believed that, I can't understand how people, more so adult, can be dupe that easily. Its been like 8 years people are wishing and wishing on Canon to do XYZ, to come out with something out-breaking. And every time they just come out frustrated. If you can't understand simple economic principle, that Canon won't jeopardize their Cine line for their DSLR line, you just deserve to be duped. You either move to their Cine line or you have other Manufacturers from Nikon to Black magic etc that are doing so much more.

here a 3 of my 2 cents thoughts on the matter

1/nikon and fuji are the only two existing camera makers that can give us best uncrippled video because they are late to the game on the video side of the hybrid cameras market and have no cinema camera line to protect. blackmagic has already strated crippling their bmpcc4k by replacing the lossless cinemadng with a lossy braw that is inferior in quality in firmware 6.2 (they have higher prices cameras that still offers lossless cinema dng raw. it reminds me of GM that made an electric car in the 90s that threatened their ICE cars and then pulled back, look at the documentary it is interesting : https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0489037/videoplayer/vi2147287321 ), canon will never deliver raw on eosR  it does not make any sense (or very crippled raw in order to not compete with their cinema camera line).

2/ one interesting thing to think about is that  for photo there is no lossy raw, only lossless raw, i guess it is due to raw file size that is manageable for photo but not for video - when storage media price will go down in price and reach the 300mB/s write speed required for 4k 12 bit raw 24fps all these lossy video raw will go away, there will be h265 and lossless raw like there is only jpeg and lossless raw for photos. (we already have 1tb m2 ssd  that writes at 500mB/s for around $100 today so it will just take a camera maker bold enough to add a m2 slot in their camera).

3/ the idea of lossy raw being a editing friendly video format that plays along well with your PC does not make sense because we will soon have video editing software that will automatically and transparently work with proxy video format under the hood, it is not available yet in video editing software because it need some extra code (i worked at adobe and looked at premiere code paths and i can tell you it is complex) but it will soon be as we are getting close to 6k and 8k raw, they will be forced to do the automatic optimized proxy video in order to be able to simplify the workflow and edit in real time in the UI on existing PC.

[IronFilm]

On 4/10/2019 at 10:44 PM, Django said:

Total snoozefest at NAB this year with no exciting announcements from anyone.. 

 

oh I DISAGREE! 

Two of the biggest and most exciting announcements:

Zaxcom Nova and Sound Devices Scorpio!

?