Race to the bottom

[hansel]

In General i simply don't get the fun of existence by using AI for this kind of stuff. For me it feels like I'd rather have Mario testino shoot my wedding than some spy cams plastered all over my place? Will vogue have a robot shot on the front page of a robot humanoid? Seems none sense. Especially with arts. Why would you want to leave the fun of doing it to Ai?

[UncleBobsPhotography]

7 hours ago, jpfilmz said:

Yes, it will be quite sometime before a robot can move about places with a camera as a floating shooter getting shots and tracking a subject in a dynamic enivornment like a wedding.  Way to many variables.

I am not sure if you're sarcastic or not... In South Korea they have wedding halls that run one wedding every 30 or 60 minutes. The whole thing is so repetitive and since the same format is used 10 times each day, it would easily be worth the investment to put cameras on rail in the ceiling for every viable angle. I haven't been to a wedding in 6 years, so they might very well have implemented it already.

Western weddings are a bit more disorganized, but I still think a large portion of the shots could be automated.

[MrSMW]

5 minutes ago, UncleBobsPhotography said:

In South Korea they have wedding halls that run one wedding every 30 or 60 minutes.

Actually, you don't even need to go to South Korea. In the UK (so presume quite similar in many other European countries?), go to any big town hall/registry office on a Saturday and there will be a wedding per hour quite easily.

Back in the day when I used to do such jobs, it would not be unusual to turn up and find; a wedding happening, one more waiting to happen, your crowd turning up plus guests for the next one, several wedding cars belonging to various weddings and no one having much clue which wedding is which! I was trying to photograph guests and having to ask them which wedding they belonged to etc.

A couple of jobs like that almost made me turn my back on weddings...but didn't, - I just stopped taking those kinds of jobs.

[dbp]

5 hours ago, hansel said:

In General i simply don't get the fun of existence by using AI for this kind of stuff. For me it feels like I'd rather have Mario testino shoot my wedding than some spy cams plastered all over my place? Will vogue have a robot shot on the front page of a robot humanoid? Seems none sense. Especially with arts. Why would you want to leave the fun of doing it to Ai?

It's not about want, it's about cost. If I can film a wedding solo with higher production values and I don't have to hire / pay 2nd and 3rd shooters, why would I?

 

If I'm a producer and I can ditch 50-75% of the crew, just keeping the bare bones folks who call the creative shots, why wouldn't I?

If I'm some random corporation that needs a steady stream of inhouse video work, and I can either hire someone on salary or get AI to do it. AI that's been taught everything with regards to marketing trends, viewing retention etc, why wouldn't I?

On a side note, I think AI learning is going to expose how ultimately boring and predictable we are.  I think there's this romantic notion that humans are unique, beautiful souls, but the numbers don't lie. Our behaviors, patterns, and habits are quite predictable and quantifiable. It's sad, really. 

 

 

 

 

[leslie]

On 4/10/2019 at 5:47 AM, Mokara said:

 Try setting up shop in your local mall selling rat kebabs and chilled moonshine, and see how far you get before the neighborhood gendarme shows up.

serve the chilled moonshine first, after two glasses no one will care !! Bonus points will be awarded if you get some vegans to eat the kebabs ?

[jpfilmz]

12 hours ago, UncleBobsPhotography said:

I am not sure if you're sarcastic or not... In South Korea they have wedding halls that run one wedding every 30 or 60 minutes. The whole thing is so repetitive and since the same format is used 10 times each day, it would easily be worth the investment to put cameras on rail in the ceiling for every viable angle. I haven't been to a wedding in 6 years, so they might very well have implemented it already.

Western weddings are a bit more disorganized, but I still think a large portion of the shots could be automated.

I'm not worried about automation at all.  For AI to displace me it would need to be able to hold a camera and follow a bride and groom around on foot through different environments (indoors, outdoors, hotel to venue, up elevators, rooftops patios, etc) from the start of the day through the ceremony through the reception.  Fixed cameras in the ceiling in one venue will never be able to do that nor will they be able to track or cut to different subjects (brides maids, grooms man, family) with any level of confidence.  Ai won't know what's important to focus on  if something impromptu happens.  Being able to read human cultural nuances like an actual human and respond with emotion intelligence to choose a particular shot/subject focus is not something Ai will be able to do anytime soon. 

[KnightsFan]

1 hour ago, jpfilmz said:

Ai won't know what's important to focus on  if something impromptu happens.  Being able to read human cultural nuances like an actual human and respond with emotion intelligence to choose a particular shot/subject focus is not something Ai will be able to do anytime soon

That is exactly what machine learning is for. Studying human nuances and internally creating an abstract model based on real world patterns, instead of a human-programmed algorithm. It is exactly what a human wedding videographer does: use experience to govern future actions.

[webrunner5]

We are Easily replaced by AI Robots as we are creatures of habit. So we are predictable as hell, so easily copied. And a lot more of our jobs are more repetitive than we imagine in a period of a lifetime. Also easy to copy. Our Goose is cooked down the road.

I just seen a few weeks ago a short story about one of the Auto Plants, I don't remember where, like Michigan I guess where there where only like 325 people workers in it. The rest of the operations were Automated. That is like a1/10 of what they used to have people wise when I was young. There were Robots doing stuff as far as the eye could see. Probably a 1/3 of the people there worked in the Restrooms for the other people when they shit it up lol, and another 1/3 to drive the cars outside and park them, and the other 1/3 programming, repairing the Robots probably. The other 10 people were Bosses I guess. It is some scary stuff long term.

[UncleBobsPhotography]

9 hours ago, jpfilmz said:

I'm not worried about automation at all.  For AI to displace me it would need to be able to hold a camera and follow a bride and groom around on foot through different environments (indoors, outdoors, hotel to venue, up elevators, rooftops patios, etc) from the start of the day through the ceremony through the reception.  Fixed cameras in the ceiling in one venue will never be able to do that nor will they be able to track or cut to different subjects (brides maids, grooms man, family) with any level of confidence.  Ai won't know what's important to focus on  if something impromptu happens.  Being able to read human cultural nuances like an actual human and respond with emotion intelligence to choose a particular shot/subject focus is not something Ai will be able to do anytime soon. 

The first step will be for automation to let 1 person do a 3 person job. If they really put the resources into it, I don't think it would be difficult to make AI track subjects and cut between frames better than we do, but the videography/photography industry is not as attractive as self-driving cars, so I'm not certain how much real innovation is going to happen in the short term.

[hansel]

4 hours ago, dbp said:

On a side note, I think AI learning is going to expose how ultimately boring and predictable we are.  I think there's this romantic notion that humans are unique, beautiful souls, but the numbers don't lie. Our behaviors, patterns, and habits are quite predictable and quantifiable. It's sad, really. 

I think AI is rather ridiculous. The idea that once all workers at VW are replaced by AI robots. The engineers the board committee etc. is complete nonsensical. It works on a small scale on a big scale it will be war. No one needs and probably no one wants a world were AI is running everything and humanity has disappeared, sorry but it's bogus.

AI replacing high skilled workers only works in the retarded neo liberal world view that is based on exploitation. Not saying it can be helpful in some cases.

 

[IronFilm]

On 4/14/2019 at 6:18 AM, dbp said:

A lot of video production work isn't art, though. The above the line people might be making those decisions, but a lot of it is mechanical grunt work. Think of all the Camera OP/First/2nd AC positions. Those will be bye-bye.  Lots of camera op work for live events will easily be replaced by cameras controlled by AI and/or one human. 

Yup, a lot of film crew work is basically blue collar manual work. Like being an electrician is, or a plumber, or a builder, etc

On 4/14/2019 at 9:09 AM, zerocool22 said:

Not even in our lifetime. If it gets as far as this we would should be happy, because there would be no jobs left, the robots will be doing all the work. Everybody will get a wager for doing nothing. And we have a lot more time on our hands to enjoy life. 

I tend to agree, this progress will lead towards an even better society to live in. 

Nobody regrets combine harvesters doing the work instead of hundreds of us slaving away in fields with a sickle, and nobody now wishes the loom machines didn't exist so that we all made it by hand instead. 

The same will be true for other technological advances, it will lead to a higher standard of living for everyone. 

 

On 4/14/2019 at 9:32 AM, BTM_Pix said:

If we've learnt anything from this thread its that unlicensed shoe selling is the only thing that can save us.

I agree

[Kisaha]

8 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

We are Easily replaced by AI Robots as we are creatures of habit. So we are predictable as hell, so easily copied. And a lot more of our jobs are more repetitive than we imagine in a period of a lifetime. Also easy to copy. Our Goose is cooked down the road.

I just seen a few weeks ago a short story about one of the Auto Plants, I don't remember where, like Michigan I guess where there where only like 325 people workers in it. The rest of the operations were Automated. That is like a1/10 of what they used to have people wise when I was young. There were Robots doing stuff as far as the eye could see. Probably a 1/3 of the people there worked in the Restrooms for the other people when they shit it up lol, and another 1/3 to drive the cars outside and park them, and the other 1/3 programming, repairing the Robots probably. The other 10 people were Bosses I guess. It is some scary stuff long term.

Why is that scary?! Machines then, robots now, doing all the labor and humans use the most important and powerful part of their bodies - brain, is the dream since stone age.

The most depressing thing that is happening in my country are the people at the roads collecting tolls from the passing cars.

We have hundrends and hundrends of those, and there are people inside those boxes that you give them money, give you chance , if needed, and your receipt. For some travels you have to stop 10-15 times, which is stupid a) they spend billions to cut 10-15min of travel time, and then stop you every 15-20Khm to pay tolls! b) you have already pay all these through taxes, why add another 25-55€ one way? (Every Khm of high way road costs almost a 1.000.000€ in my country, which is 10 times what costs in EU! Can you guess why? Some are getting very rich building roads here! This is happening since the end of world war ii and the Marshall plan..big story..one reason this country deserved its financial exhaustion, but nothing changed..).

These jobs are considered very good ones, because the pay good, and you do just that.

Everytime I see them I feel so sorry for them. Imagine doing that 40 times per hour X 8 hours X 5 days a week for 20-30 years!

What a waste of humanity..

2 hours ago, UncleBobsPhotography said:

The first step will be for automation to let 1 person do a 3 person job. If they really put the resources into it, I don't think it would be difficult to make AI track subjects and cut between frames better than we do, but the videography/photography industry is not as attractive as self-driving cars, so I'm not certain how much real innovation is going to happen in the short term.

This is happening already. I know specificaly a top TV station here that have only 1 camera operator and controls 3-5 cameras from the control room. They do news and most of their internal productions like this.

[BTM_Pix]

20 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

This is happening already. I know specificaly a top TV station here that have only 1 camera operator and controls 3-5 cameras from the control room. They do news and most of their internal productions like this.

The BBC have been using robot setups for studio news programmes for a good few years.

The cameras regularly get bored and wander about making it up as they go along so you can't get more AI than that I suppose.

You'd think that one of the world's most senior broadcast organisations would have pulled these systems after one glitch like this on live television but still it goes on (there are tons of them to enjoy on YouTube) which I think is quite informing regarding how a cost benefit can cause a blind eye to be turned.

 

[Kisaha]

 

1 person for 5 cameras. That is so old school..

[KnightsFan]

7 hours ago, hansel said:

It works on a small scale on a big scale it will be war.

That's the danger. With our current economy, the more we employ robots, algorithms, and artificial intelligence, the more economic disparity we'll see. So if we don't figure out how to value humans before poverty rates go through the roof, we'll have war.

 

Also, side note, I saw this just now. It will be interesting to see how this kind of service evolves over the next 5, 10, and 20 years.

https://petapixel.com/2019/04/11/this-robot-photographer-just-shot-her-first-wedding/?fbclid=IwAR0lbBvyZ-dMj7DHrwqGsQuaTXEFAjUX7uup-AkpWisfvTTV8qzn_Iqry1k

[webrunner5]

FedEx must think it's a good idea. One of the biggest company's in the world. 450,000 employees. Imagine getting rid of just 25% of them overall cost savings.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/smart-cities-delivery-robots/?utm_source=sendgrid&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily-brief

[PrometheusDM]

On 4/13/2019 at 5:33 AM, dbp said:

My biggest worry by far is AI and robots. Our industry is going to be absolutely gutted at some point,  I think people have no idea. People talk about the DSLR revolution changing things....that's absolutely compared to what's gonna happen, IMO. 

 

I completely agree with you. I think AI will significantly change multiple industries including photography and videography. You may not have robot shooting weddings for a while, but it will impacts in other subtle ways from shooting to editing.

Once you have AI able to analyze all the clips & images and edit multiple drafts for editor to fine tune to final draft, it will be disruptive. They might be able to analyze someone's else clip and edit your image/video clips similar to it.  If there are more and more finding videography and photography easy, it will drive the price down while the production quality goes up. 

In photography, there is already eyeAF, animal AF, object recognition that's making it easier for general public to use. If you can take good exposure back in the day, it would mean you can make career out of it. Not so much now. In some field of photography, you can't make much doing much in that niche (wildlife, journalist, etc) than before.

I already see some impact with AI & robot in other field. Automated driving car will disruptive such as taxi, truck drivers, etc. 

Robots from Boston Dynamic will replace alot of factory workers, fast food workers, kiosk, etc. 

Back to the topic, I think now with the proliferation of affordable high quality gears, availability of quality education and a job force that left many people to do photography/videography, it's going to drive down the market.

I do creative as a side job and charge more than some of the pro in my area because I value my time and skills. I see more and more professionals and weekend warrior charge less because they can't compete on quality so they compete on price. I am continue to be impress by works of non professionals who aren't doing this for a living. Creative is a constant hustle and not everyone want that.

[BTM_Pix]

8 hours ago, Kisaha said:

1 person for 5 cameras. That is so old school..

How about 0 person for unlimited cameras ?

I remember seeing an early version of this Pixellot system at IBC a few years ago but its now fully developed and is being used to produce tens of thousands of hours of sports games every month completely autonomously using a camera array and AI.

Its not at the level of a true full on multi camera real sports broadcast production but its more than adequate for its target market and in its other guise as a coaching aid its being used as at the very highest level in the major European football leagues. 

Its a very interesting insight into what is already happening and its not difficult to imagine where it will end up before long.

Although for a company that can produce this level of technology you wouldn't have thought it beyond them to figure out how to use a pop-shield for their presentation of it!

 

[Kisaha]

45 minutes ago, PrometheusDM said:

Once you have AI able to analyze all the clips & images and edit multiple drafts for editor to fine tune to final draft, it will be disruptive.

Amen to this!

[BTM_Pix]

48 minutes ago, PrometheusDM said:

Once you have AI able to analyze all the clips & images and edit multiple drafts for editor to fine tune to final draft, it will be disruptive. 

 

3 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

Amen to this!

Yep, one of the Pixellot's other tricks is that after it has shot the game live it can produce a highlights reel based on its AI knowledge of what a goal/score looks like in each of the sports its been trained in.