Organic looking Panasonic S1 footage

[Jordan Garcia]

Any updates on this camera? Anyone purchase one yet? 

[PrometheusDM]

I bought the camera for $2250 with free battery, battery grip and 3 year warranty. I'm selling the grip so it's $2000 camera for me.

I really think it's the best camera I've ever owned. I had Canon 6D, 5D IV, EOS R and tried various camera Sony A7III, A9, A7RIII.

I primarily use it for still photography. Beautiful EVF, ergonomic, great IBIS, and no banding. The AF is really good for still and the inclusion of eyeAF is much better than Canon EOS R but still no match for Sony. It also track animals.

It has alot of little things I like - quick toggle for AF-C/AF-S/Manual, quick lever for silent shutter, manual focus magnification, backlit buttons, focus bracketing, and custom modes.

This might be the first camera where I can set the setting for each scenarios I commonly shoot with - timelapse, portrait, landscape, etc. This is so great to have!

This does not have the best AF compare to Sony but it's more than usable as is for me. EyeAF is much better than Canon EOS R. I'm sure it will get further improvement.

I considered all of Nikon, Sony, and Canon offering. I ended up with Panasonic S1 based on my priority and needs - dual card slot, great EVF, good sensor, IBIS, ergonomic.

Here is a AF test done between Sony A7III vs Panasonic S1

Also, I just find out ISO 50 is a true ISO. https://www.l-rumors.com/diggloyd-panasonic-s1r-has-true-iso-50-not-a-faux-iso-kudos-to-panasonic/

This is pretty amazing for increase dynamic range.

 

[currensheldon]

Yep! Purchased one and have had it for a week. Initial impressions are very positive. I have never written a review on a seller's website before but felt compelled to do so for the S1. Here is what I wrote:

I have used a variety of mirrorless cameras, starting with Sony A7s and A7rII and then the GH5 and most recently the Canon EOS R. The only camera that Ive held on to long-term is the GH5, so I was very excited when I heard Panasonic was releasing a full-frame mirrorless camera. Now that it has arrived, it is truly the most professional, robust, and beautiful mirrorless camera Ive used. I bought and tested out the Canon EOS R, but found it frustrating ergonomically and with hindered video specs (big crops, no stabilization, etc), it required a lot of compromises. It took beautiful images, but for video (which is what I mostly do), the GH5 outperformed it in every way.

Next to the EOS R (and definitely all the Sonys), the Panasonic S1 feels like a true professional camera. It's a bit heavier than the other mirrorless cameras, but since I mainly use Sigmas 24-70, 18-35, or 50-100mm, once you have the lenses on there, it's not a huge difference. Its actually more comfortable because the grip is so nicely designed.

REALLY looking forward to the 10-bit, V-Log update in a couple of months as well as the Sigma EF L adapter in a few weeks. Will really help make this camera shine.

--

To expand on some of those points, it really does feel like a truly professional camera. While there are plenty of mirrorless cameras that get you great results, I often feel like I am fighting the camera (like the EOS R) to have it do what I want. You can do it, it's just not that much fun. Same with Sonys - they just don't feel good and I (personally) don't enjoy using them. I also really think the Sony mirrorless and 8-bit (FS) image is seriously flawed - and that's my #1 consideration for any filmmaking tool. 

I'm in no way a Panasonic fanboy, but after trying for years to use Sony and Canon, the former with a compromise on image quality, the latter with a compromise on usability, specs, and performance, I'm finally satisfied in Panasonic world with the EVA-1, S1, and GH5. Great color, incredible image, great usability, incredible customization, all the tools and all the required specs and approved codecs. Their mount system is a mess, so looking forward to them hopefully streamlining that in the next year or two. 

Highly recommend the S1. 

 

1 hour ago, PrometheusDM said:

 

 

If nothing else, this test really shows the pretty wide gap in color and image quality between Panasonic and Sony, in my opinion. S1 looks fantastic. 

[ade towell]

Thanks for all the feedback am liking what I'm seeing, definitely looks the best FF mirrorless to me. When it gets full V-log the camera will be a beast.

Has anyone tried the S35 mode and compared it to full frame for image quality, I've got a lot of ef-s lenses that could still be useful?

[Mokara]

By "organic", do you mean it looks like manure?

2 hours ago, currensheldon said:

 

 

If nothing else, this test really shows the pretty wide gap in color and image quality between Panasonic and Sony, in my opinion. S1 looks fantastic. 

Not really. The Panasonic is consistently under exposed compared to the Sony. Also, in the first set the Panasonic is focused over most of the scene while the Sony has been focused behind the principle subject matter. 

They are not equivalent comparisons.

[DBounce]

@currensheldon The GH5/S are great cameras, but I parted with both and still own the EOS R. Don't get me wrong, the Panasonics are quite capable, but to my eyes the imagery from the R looks more filmic. I think the image from the S1 might be better than the GH5/S,  but the s1 is a great camera that is held back by a major problem... the Auto-focus is really not usable for video purposes. The back and forth hunting is a no-no. And frankly unacceptable for a camera in 2019. As far as ergonomics go, well the Panasonic is huge and heavy by mirrorless standards. I see nothing wrong with the ergos and like Panasonic menus, but I could say the same for the much lighter Canon.

I won't fault the image... I think it looks pretty good. Better than Sony, with seemingly better dynamic range. But I feel it still falls short of the Canon when comparing color science. The low-light is impressive... it may well be this camera's strongest point. But none of that helps much if your shots are out of focus. For my uses, cameras such as this live on gimbals or motion controllers. And when not employed in such ways are seeing service for stills work. So for my uses reliable auto focus is a must have. This camera could have been a runaway success for Panasonic had they have included just two items... Great AF and a flip out screen. These two items are obvious omissions. It's interesting for its low-light, but that's about it. 

[ade towell]

I'd say the RS and crop on the eos-r is unacceptable to me in 2019. And 4k 50p is great to have. I like to focus myself, feel more involved in the scene.

Ive got Canon cameras but am preferring the Panasonic colours from this and Eva1, and gh5s. Is all subjective and good we've got choices

[currensheldon]

Yea have to agree with Ade here and, when it comes to things that aren't acceptable in 2019, a 1.8x crop on a full frame camera and terrible RS are way higher deal breakers than autofocus for me. I've used autofocus a couple of times in a semi-professional environment (mostly just for fun) and have come to the conclusion that I still can't trust it. On jobs that truly matter or for a paying client (or my own work that I really care about), I'm manual focusing every single time. Even with the amazing Canon DPAF, it's easy for it to slip off the subject or to the background when the subject moves, moves quickly, or you are panning between subjects. And focus going from close to deep and back again during a pan is not acceptable. 

I also don't have much trouble focusing manually.

Yes, for gimbals it's nice, but the Ronin-S plugs right into the GH5 (haven't tested the S1 yet) and I can manually focus anyway. There are plenty of small, cheap, lightweight follow focuses for all the one-hand gimbals that I'd much rather use with a manual focusing prime (like Zeiss Contax, Vogitlanders, or Loxias) than trust AF. 

--

As for ergonomics, the little bit of extra body weight doesn't bother me much because once I put the lens on it, the difference is pretty minimal. No, it won't be my travel and for-fun camera, but for professional work, an extra 200-300 grams doesn't bother me. 

I liked the EOS R, but there were just too many pain points and compromises. Same with the C200. I need a 10-bit 4K codec for my work. And the C300 is an ergonomic nightmare. Canon currently just has a strange lineup of cameras that are crippled in a variety of ways.

So, Panasonic, at this moment, is really my only option for my needs. 

[sanveer]

Once all the various L-Mount Sigma lenses are released the S1 (and S1 R) will become superb Photography and Videography tools. Their prices seem a lot more accessible (and interestingly, all are primes?). 

[mercer]

35 minutes ago, currensheldon said:

I need a 10-bit 4K codec for my work.

Out of curiosity, what kind of work do you do that you need 10bit 4K?

[PrometheusDM]

4 hours ago, currensheldon said:

Yep! Purchased one and have had it for a week. Initial impressions are very positive. I have never written a review on a seller's website before but felt compelled to do so for the S1. Here is what I wrote:

I have used a variety of mirrorless cameras, starting with Sony A7s and A7rII and then the GH5 and most recently the Canon EOS R. The only camera that Ive held on to long-term is the GH5, so I was very excited when I heard Panasonic was releasing a full-frame mirrorless camera. Now that it has arrived, it is truly the most professional, robust, and beautiful mirrorless camera Ive used. I bought and tested out the Canon EOS R, but found it frustrating ergonomically and with hindered video specs (big crops, no stabilization, etc), it required a lot of compromises. It took beautiful images, but for video (which is what I mostly do), the GH5 outperformed it in every way.

Next to the EOS R (and definitely all the Sonys), the Panasonic S1 feels like a true professional camera. It's a bit heavier than the other mirrorless cameras, but since I mainly use Sigmas 24-70, 18-35, or 50-100mm, once you have the lenses on there, it's not a huge difference. Its actually more comfortable because the grip is so nicely designed.

REALLY looking forward to the 10-bit, V-Log update in a couple of months as well as the Sigma EF L adapter in a few weeks. Will really help make this camera shine.

--

To expand on some of those points, it really does feel like a truly professional camera. While there are plenty of mirrorless cameras that get you great results, I often feel like I am fighting the camera (like the EOS R) to have it do what I want. You can do it, it's just not that much fun. Same with Sonys - they just don't feel good and I (personally) don't enjoy using them. I also really think the Sony mirrorless and 8-bit (FS) image is seriously flawed - and that's my #1 consideration for any filmmaking tool. 

I'm in no way a Panasonic fanboy, but after trying for years to use Sony and Canon, the former with a compromise on image quality, the latter with a compromise on usability, specs, and performance, I'm finally satisfied in Panasonic world with the EVA-1, S1, and GH5. Great color, incredible image, great usability, incredible customization, all the tools and all the required specs and approved codecs. Their mount system is a mess, so looking forward to them hopefully streamlining that in the next year or two. 

Highly recommend the S1. 

 

If nothing else, this test really shows the pretty wide gap in color and image quality between Panasonic and Sony, in my opinion. S1 looks fantastic. 

wha the f***

I read your review and thinking it's me that write that review! 

I have never used Panasonic camera or switch to any brand before. Always Canon for 10 years. I thought about switching to Sony for the eye AF and better sensor, but there are always flaws I found it annoying such as the ergonomic, EVF, screen resolution unless I get the A9.

The more I use this camera, the more I realized how much thought Panasonic put into this camera. It make my job incredibly convenience. This camera is not perfect but definitely show Panasonic listened and execute unlike Canon and Nikon. For everyone that say this camera is expensive, I say it's well justify. I think it provide excellent value especially if you get free battery, free grip, and extended warranty.

If this is their first camera, I'm excited to see the refinement for future camera. Whatever they do, you can expect them to push boundaries and raising the bar higher 

As a big Sigma Art fan, I'm looking forward to their version of 24-70, 70-200 and whatever they can come up for the L mount.

[currensheldon]

13 minutes ago, mercer said:

Out of curiosity, what kind of work do you do that you need 10bit 4K?

I do a lot of my own work, but have also been hired on quite a few jobs/episodes/pick-up shoots that are either in the Netflix/Amazon/HBO world (and require Netflix approved cameras) or some jobs that are hoping to be picked up by Netflix down the line. Obviously, Netflix buys documentaries that aren't necessarily shot in 10-bit 4K, but a lot of people want to shoot in that anyway just in case. 

[BTM_Pix]

1 hour ago, sanveer said:

Their prices seem a lot more accessible (and interestingly, all are primes?).

We have a conspiracy theory on the go about why this might be.

Of the 11 lenses Sigma have announced, only 2 have a direct Leica equivalent so the theory would be that Leica, at least in the short term, want to have their Varios to remain the exclusive option for fast zooms.

 

[Django]

2 hours ago, Mokara said:

By "organic", do you mean it looks like manure?

Not really. The Panasonic is consistently under exposed compared to the Sony. Also, in the first set the Panasonic is focused over most of the scene while the Sony has been focused behind the principle subject matter. 

They are not equivalent comparisons.

Should also be noted the S1 footage uses the new $2500 50mm 1.4 Lumix while the A73 is rocking a cheap F2.8 Tamron zoom.. not really an even playing field.

[ade towell]

How are you folks finding the IBIS on this camera? I've read a few comments saying it's even better than on the GH5 - would love this to be true, and I have a load of old manual lenses that I'd like to use handheld

[currensheldon]

2 hours ago, ade towell said:

How are you folks finding the IBIS on this camera? I've read a few comments saying it's even better than on the GH5 - would love this to be true, and I have a load of old manual lenses that I'd like to use handheld

I'd say it's pretty on par with the GH5, which is excellent. I've found in other full-frame mirrorless cameras (Just Sony, since I haven't used Nikons), I found the IBIS to be pretty warpy, warbly, and only useable when standing still. But the GH5 has amazing IBIS and can be used in all situations. The S1 lives up to it, for sure - pretty amazing for a full-frame sensor. Might be why the body has some extra heft.

[sanveer]

9 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

We have a conspiracy theory on the go about why this might be.

Of the 11 lenses Sigma have announced, only 2 have a direct Leica equivalent so the theory would be that Leica, at least in the short term, want to have their Varios to remain the exclusive option for fast zooms.

 

Aah, very interesting. Though that, unfortunately, limits the zoom options (because of the bad pricing). 

[BTM_Pix]

1 hour ago, sanveer said:

Aah, very interesting. Though that, unfortunately, limits the zoom options (because of the bad pricing). 

Bad is putting it mildly when it comes to the pricing  and now that the L mount is not exclusive its looking even worse.

For the price of the 24-90mm f2.8-f4 you can get ALL of the following Sigma ART zooms :

14-24mm f2.8

24-35mm f2

24-70mm f2.8

Oh, yeah, AND the Panasonic S1 to put them on with the adapter.

So if there is some sort of protectionsim element to it then its quite understandable

I'm still hopeful that the situation with the Sigma MC21 not working with Leica bodies is a short term anomaly rather than a permanent lockout thing.

 

 

[sanveer]

7 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

For the price of the 24-90mm f2.8-f4 you can get ALL of the following Sigma ART zooms :

14-24mm f2.8

24-35mm f2

24-70mm f2.8

Oh, yeah, AND the Panasonic S1 to put them on with the adapter.

Whoa !!! You've actually made some superb observations. 

 

7 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

I'm still hopeful that the situation with the Sigma MC21 not working with Leica bodies is a short term anomaly rather than a permanent lockout thing.

If it was supposed to work initially, and suddenly not work anymore, Without giving any Actual Reasons behind this ("... However, specification changed and and it will not be compatible with Leila's existing L-mount cameras."), it seems to be, IMHO, a Permanent Problem. 

I didn't even notice the magnitude of the Problem. Leica has been milking some strange mount camera system, where they engage Panasonic to make cameras for them with a very niche market. The cameras and bodies are both ludicrously priced (like most things made by Leica). And suddenly Panasonic believes it would be easier (and better?) to adopt this mount and move to Full Frame from here, instead of creating a Full Frame mount from scratch, thereby addressing issues with the l-mount, to be begin with. 

The problem is Leica won't let them make zoon lenses that are less expensive (one of the hallmarks of M43 and Panasonic ILCs), unless they are like f4 or slower. And they won't allow them or Sigma or whoever else, to make any nature of adaptor, to ensure that similar zooms are Never Compatible with the L-Mount (Leica or Panasonic or even probably a Sigma Camera, if it were to ever be made with that mount).

Does it mean users will be forced to use Prime Lenses where one needs brighter lenses if one cannot afford the Leica's unaffordable pricing. I personally find the f2.8-4 lens to be a bad mix of not being bright enough, and yet Also lacking a Constant f-stop (and also terribly priced, as in the case of Leica). In that sense, atleast the Samsung 16-50mm f2-2.8 seemed like a much better variable aperture lens. It was very bright at one end atleast.

Does it also mean that users should not expect Panasonic or Sigma, to ever make f2.8 zoom lenses for the l-mount (or till such time as all leftover Leica Stock of Zooms have been sold and a cooling has been allowed)? Leica hasn't been making many/any f2.8 zooms, and the f2.8-4 zooms don't seem to be intended for the S1 and S1R target audience, atleast due to the pricing (and also due bad autofocus in video, according to some user reviews).

Interesting for a Lens System that has 42 Lens Roadmap by the end of 2020. 

[BTM_Pix]

6 minutes ago, sanveer said:

Whoa !!! You've actually made some superb observations. 

By the law of averages it had to happen at some point. 

7 minutes ago, sanveer said:

If it was supposed to work initially, and suddenly not work anymore, Without giving any Actual Reasons behind this ("... However, specification changed and and it will not be compatible with Leila's existing L-mount cameras."), it seems to be, IMHO, a Permanent Problem. 

I didn't even notice the magnitude of the Problem. Leica has been milking some strange mount camera system, where they engage Panasonic to make cameras for them with a very niche market. The cameras and bodies are both ludicrously priced (like most things made by Leica). And suddenly Panasonic believes it would be easier (and better?) to adopt this mount and move to Full Frame from here, instead of creating a Full Frame mount from scratch, thereby addressing issues with the l-mount, to be begin with. 

It was definitely supposed to work and then, yeah, right at the actual announcement of price and availability there was a U turn.

Bear in mind though that at that point the L mount Panasonic lenses were also not working on the Leica cameras, which was even more ridiculous, but this was addressed later with firmware update for the SL and CL but not as yet the TL2/TL/T so it still could all change.

However, if you read that other thread, we were discussing something interesting on the official L mount alliance website (which is run by Leica) that basically alluded to that it is Panasonic that have the relationship with Sigma and so Leica appear to be involved with Sigma by association. 

This would feed into the supposition that it might not all sweetness and light in terms of inter compatibility as it is Leica that actually own the L mount.

But this could yet change so when the adapter comes out officially on Friday we will see if there is any response.

I think that the initial investment into Leica bodies and lenses is obviously a lot more when you put it like for like against other products but they do retain their value a lot more so the overall cost of ownership is actually quite comparable. If you took an example of an APS-C body like an X-T2 that I bought a couple of years ago which spec for spec made a comparable APS-C Leica CL look ridiculously overpriced but if I sold the X-T2 tomorrow the loss compared to the CL would at best be equal and likely worse.

Having said that, I bought the mic adapter for my SL recently and felt like calling the Police to investigate the price they charge for it !

29 minutes ago, sanveer said:

The problem is Leica won't let them make zoon lenses that are less expensive (one of the hallmarks of M43 and Panasonic ILCs), unless they are like f4 or slower. And they won't allow them or Sigma or whoever else, to make any nature of adaptor, to ensure that similar zooms are Never Compatible with the L-Mount (Leica or Panasonic or even probably a Sigma Camera, if it were to ever be made with that mount).

Does it mean users will be forced to use Prime Lenses where one needs brighter lenses if one cannot afford the Leica's unaffordable pricing. I personally find the f2.8-4 lens to be a bad mix of not being bright enough, and yet Also lacking a Constant f-stop (and also terribly priced, as in the case of Leica). In that sense, atleast the Samsung 16-50mm f2-2.8 seemed like a much better variable aperture lens. It was very bright at one end atleast.

Does it also mean that users should not expect Panasonic or Sigma, to ever make f2.8 zoom lenses for the l-mount (or till such time as all leftover Leica Stock of Zooms have been sold and a cooling has been allowed)? Leica hasn't been making many/any f2.8 zooms, and the f2.8-4 zooms don't seem to be intended for the S1 and S1R target audience, atleast due to the pricing (and also due bad autofocus in video, according to some user reviews).

Interesting for a Lens System that has 42 Lens Roadmap by the end of 2020. 

The suspicion based on there being no zooms in Sigma's initial release and the lack of compatibility with the MC21 and Leica cameras (which would allow the other mount ART zooms to be used) is that, yes, there is some sort of agreement/restriction/embargo or any combination of the three that is ensuring that only Leica will have fast zooms for the immediate future.

Bear in mind though that it might well be Sigma themselves holding back these zoom lenses as they will have a new L mount version of the SD Quattro in the not too distant future so may be holding them back until then.

The story for Panasonic users is brighter in that as from Friday they will be able to use the Sigma fast zooms (albeit in EF or SA mount) though it remains to be seen how good the AF is.

Of course, they also have the option of buying the Leica lenses but I can't see a lot of that going on at the current prices.

Whichever way this eventually shakes out, the presumption/expectation that this alliance would offer seamless and unrestricted interoperability between the three brands has not thus far materialised. 

We may only be a couple of firmware updates away from that changing but its a bit of a mess at the moment as far as I'm concerned.