Canon Readies 63MP FF Sensor with Dual Pixel AF

[androidlad]

This 63MP FF sensor from Canon (35MM63MXSCD, FSI with 300nm process) is a response to Sony's 61MP IMX455 (BSI & DTI with 90nm process), which recently entered mass production and will be sold to Nikon and Pentax.

[andrgl]

Wow the node process difference between Sony and Canon is nuts.

Doesn't Canon have patents for BSI? Have they build any sensors with it?

[webrunner5]

Well the Canon 300nm process versus the Sony 90nm process is what is pretty telling to me. That is pretty far behind the curve in this day and age. Canon must spend about 50 Dollars a year upgrading their Fab plants. Their big problem is Sony, selling their sensors to everyone, has Tons of money to modernize their Fab Plants.

[David Bowgett]

Hey now, 300nm used to be a cutting-edge process... all the way back in 1996 or so, but it was certainly cutting-edge back then!

(To be fair, 90nm processes aren't exactly new either - they've been around since roughly 2004 - but still, quite the difference)

[androidlad]

3 minutes ago, David Bowgett said:

Hey now, 300nm used to be a cutting-edge process... all the way back in 1996 or so, but it was certainly cutting-edge back then!

(To be fair, 90nm processes aren't exactly new either - they've been around since roughly 2004 - but still, quite the difference)

For a 36x24mm FF sensor, 300nm vs 90nm process really make very little if any difference to image quality. There are more important contributors.

CMOS sensors are not CPU, there's no constant need to shrink the die.

[Amazeballs]

But will it do 4k with no crop? It is not as much about sensor for Canon as for their out of date image processors. 

[liork]

Its about heat

[Danyyyel]

1 hour ago, androidlad said:

For a 36x24mm FF sensor, 300nm vs 90nm process really make very little if any difference to image quality. There are more important contributors.

CMOS sensors are not CPU, there's no constant need to shrink the die.

I think the difference is that most of the electronics can be much smaller, thus leaving more space to the actual photo sensitive cells.

[webrunner5]

2 minutes ago, Danyyyel said:

I think the difference is that most of the electronics can be much smaller, thus leaving more space to the actual photo sensitive cells.

Yeah you can only cram so much stuff on a sensor. The smaller the stuff the more you can do.

[Snowbro]

I am betting it will have around 13 stops of DR

[androidlad]

26 minutes ago, Danyyyel said:

I think the difference is that most of the electronics can be much smaller, thus leaving more space to the actual photo sensitive cells.

 

23 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Yeah you can only cram so much stuff on a sensor. The smaller the stuff the more you can do.

No, the lithography node (300nm, 90nm) refers to ADC circuitry, it has nothing to do with the photodiode and does not affect photosensitive area no matter how big or small the number is.

It's the reason why Sony has achieved 16bit ADC on recent generation sensors.

12 minutes ago, Snowbro said:

I am betting it will have around 13 stops of DR

The datasheet actually tells you how much DR it has.

Using the formula 20/6 x Log10(FWC/RMS)

We can calculate that at ISO100 it has a pixel-level EDR of 12EV.

[Video Hummus]

6 hours ago, Amazeballs said:

But will it do 4k with no crop? It is not as much about sensor for Canon as for their out of date image processors. 

This. It’s a race as much with the CPUs in the cameras as much as the sensor now. Especially with all this “AI” aka machine learning features and tracking algorithms. Tomorrow it will be simulated depth of field.

Only advantage left for dedicated cameras is their focal range abilities and well “look and feel”. 

[sanveer]

7 hours ago, androidlad said:

We can calculate that at ISO100 it has a pixel-level EDR of 12EV.

Not really earth shattering Dynamic Range for a Full Frame Sensor, especially considering that the ISO performance is also rather mediocre.

Is this sensor like 2 generations behind Sony?  

[androidlad]

1 hour ago, sanveer said:

Not really earth shattering Dynamic Range for a Full Frame Sensor, especially considering that the ISO performance is also rather mediocre.

Is this sensor like 2 generations behind Sony?  

[webrunner5]

Wow that is just embarrassing to be honest. How can you be that bad in this day and age?

[ND64]

5fps at 12bit is disappointing. 

[Mokara]

15 hours ago, androidlad said:

For a 36x24mm FF sensor, 300nm vs 90nm process really make very little if any difference to image quality. There are more important contributors.

CMOS sensors are not CPU, there's no constant need to shrink the die.

There is if you want to add supporting logic.

5 hours ago, androidlad said:

So, if EV 10 represents a minimum acceptable dynamic range, the Canon can go to ISO 1600 while the IMX455 can go to ISO 6400 and the IMX555 to ISO ~12000?

 

[sanveer]

7 hours ago, androidlad said:

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

It IS 2 generations behind Sony (or 4). Maybe Canon should just put aside their ego, and just pick up Sony sensors. The difference 12 and 15.5 Stops is HUGE. Plus that 16-bit advantage would help push shadows and highlights like nothing else around. Plus this sensor would easily outperform most (or all current) Medium Format sensors (atleast in that 60MP resolution equivalent chart). 

[Mako Sports]

12 hours ago, sanveer said:

Is this sensor like 2 generations behind Sony?  

No reason to be surprised. Been this way for quite awhile. 

[Kisaha]

20 hours ago, androidlad said:

Using the formula 20/6 x Log10(FWC/RMS)

We can calculate that at ISO100 it has a pixel-level EDR of 12EV.

Seriously?! A big bravo, if you are not making these up!

As of the specs of the sensor, Canon probably has a financial formula that equates to: whatever I sell them they are buying, so just have some similar specs and pray that they will never find out!

However anyone sees it, if you can sell something, with whatever technology, then why spend capital to buy important components from someone else?