Biggest European dealer CVP 'in the dark' over new Blackmagic cameras

[Andrew Reid]

Maybe there's been a bit of a relationship breakdown with CVP. B&H get a camera. Small dealers in Germany claim they're getting deliveries. But CVP feels the need to put this out and nor have they any demo units.

 

The plot thickens.

[Bruno]

Maybe there's been a bit of a relationship breakdown with CVP. B&H get a camera. Small dealers in Germany claim they're getting deliveries. But CVP feels the need to put this out and nor have they any demo units.

 

The plot thickens.

 

Could be, at least a couple weeks ago, you could just walk into B&H and buy and of the two variants of the BMCC, maybe CVP is upset they can't provide the same to their clients.

[Andrew Reid]

I can understand Blackmagic wanting to prioritise the US market.

 

However, it isn't a very professional camera launch if you can't even supply the 3 major markets - Europe, Asia, US.

 

I think the root cause of this is that the scientific CMOS sensors aren't really made for mass production cameras.

 

Blackmagic should source from Aptina or Sony instead.

 

CMOSIS should be able to ramp up pretty well though. Yet there's no sign of the 4K model is there?

[zephyrnoid]

I find it unethical and a lack of respect to tell people "we'll deliver for sure at that date" and then leave customers in the void. I don't understand potential customers saying "yeah, but for what they offer, I'm OK to wait 6+ months". Is the concept of telling the truth that outdated?

Pshaw! I've been monitoring the 'skunkworks' in MANY domains and they all over promise and under-deliver. The fundamental problem is how these projects are funded and the ethics involved in pre-promoting them before the R&D is actually finished.
The fundamental mechanism involves the same key factors every time:
1) Tapping into known end user desires and wish lists
2) Appealing to prospective customers' dependence on 'Cool Factor'.
3) Teasing with slick prototypes and renderings
4) Apeasing & Teasing with seeded prototypes
5) Threatening scarcity with 'Limited  Serialized Editions'
6) Resting on laurels once first round funding is in hand
7) Delaying releases with lame excuses
8) Repeat # 7)
9) Releasing a 'Public Beta' that's full of bugs
10) Offering firmware upgrades for life
11 ) Resting on laurels once second round funding is in hand

Do you notice anything? This is the merchandising process for software products
:lol:

[/p/]

I drove past BMD HQ yesterday, I might go in next week and say hello.

[Husah]

I can't believe people still counts on vapourware! Blackmagic is like 0.1% of Canon or Sony, they are probably doing their best. More cameras they make, more money they make. You still could be buying crippled HDV interlaced 1/3" CCDs 5000$ cameras if not for Red or Blackmagic, show some respect...

 

Large sensor cheap cameras has nothing to do with either Red  (expensive) or Bklackmaji (late to the party). This revolution comes from still camera world, specifically DSLRs. There is no reason to show respect to  for profit "companies" 

[Xavier Plagaro Mussard]

Husah, Canon would probably never try to put video on a DSLR camera if RED didn't exist. Cameras are tools, the important thing is the production you are doing. Since you can't shoot anything with the "future specs" of a possible/vapourware camera, focus on the cameras that exist. I wouldn't start a serious job on a camera it just came out. I would at least wait to see if the camera works well. But that's just me!!!

[/p/]

Canon put video in the 5D2 because Nikon put 720P video in their Nikon D90.. The video feature in the D90 was 720P and aimed at consumers (the D90 is a consumer camera) when Canon put the video feature in the 5D2 it was extremely basic and wasn't even aimed at the filmmaker but the photojournalist, Canon admitted this years ago. It was only after filmmakers started buying it and using it that it evolved into what it is today.

 

I don't think the video in Canon or Nikon DSLRs had anything to do with RED whatsoever......

[mtheory]

I cancelled my Blackmagic Order for the 4K model. I spent the money I got back going to see the Adam Curtis and Massive Attack documentary in Manchester (whihc as you know was amazing) and pocketed the rest.

 

I couldn't deal with heaving no idea when they were going to ship, and thus whip the money out of my account.

 

I half-expect they will ship the pocket on time but will bump the 4K to December or something. Will hold out for a few more weeks. 

[pask74]

Hahaha - very true.

Now, because "everybody" does it doesn't make it more ethical.

 

Pshaw! I've been monitoring the 'skunworks' in MANY domains and they all over promise and under-deliver. The fundamental problem is how these projects are funded and the ethics involved in pre-promoting them before the R&D is actually finished.
The fundamental mechanism involves the same key factors every time:
1) Tapping into known end user desires and wish lists
2) Appealing to prospective customers' dependence on 'Cool Factor'.
3) Teasing with slick prototypes and renderings
4) Apeasing & Teasing with seeded prototypes
5) Threatening scarcity with 'Limited  Serialized Editions'
6) Resting on laurels once first round funding is in hand
7) Delaying releases with lame excuses
8) Repeat # 7)
9) Releasing a 'Public Beta' that's full of bugs
10) Offering firmware upgrades for life
11 ) Resting on laurels once second round funding is in hand

Do you notice anything? This is the merchandising process for software products
:lol:

[Husah]

Husah, Canon would probably never try to put video on a DSLR camera if RED didn't exist. 

 

Red has absolutely nothing to do with cheap cameras with big sensor. Red One (fully working with all accessories) was over $20,000 back in 2008/9 when Canon and Nikon were releasing consumer $800 DSLRs (like Rebel) that could do video too. This just happened as natural progression of still DSLRs and as a result of CMOS sensors. Since these still cameras could do "liveview" it naturally followed that still camera companies could record that liveview stream on  a flash card and get marketing line, "look you can buy this DSLR" at Walmart that does video too. 

 

We are talking real cheap consumer line here .. moms with DSLRs that can shoot videos too. 

 

This has absolutely nothing to do with Red at all which (though cheaper than very expensive film cameras) was still pretty much niche product for professionals and rental companies. 

[Tzedekh]

CMOSIS should be able to ramp up pretty well though. Yet there's no sign of the 4K model is there?

 

You might think so, but it's not clear just when CMOSIS began volume production of the CMV12000. It was either in summer 2012 (here) or just recently (here). If the latter, that doesn't bode well for an end-of-July release. It doesn't leave too much time for testing.

[zephyrnoid]

Canon put video in the 5D2 because Nikon put 720P video in their Nikon D90.. The video feature in the D90 was 720P and aimed at consumers (the D90 is a consumer camera) when Canon put the video feature in the 5D2 it was extremely basic and wasn't even aimed at the filmmaker but the photojournalist, Canon admitted this years ago. It was only after filmmakers started buying it and using it that it evolved into what it is today.

 

I don't think the video in Canon or Nikon DSLRs had anything to do with RED whatsoever......

I dissagree. Having lived deep in the trenches of IT and 'New Media' from 1995 onward, I can tell you that ALL the tech companies 'cross polinate' and they all study each other as well as both the consumer and professional market place for profit and R&D opportunities.
As a lightweight insider I can tell you that RED absolutely adjusted thier produict roll out strategies based on a new paradigm of Pro capable Hybrid DSLRs ( and now some mirrosless cams) . They also stole IP from Sony ( which led to litigation/negotiation stages) . The mainstreamers like Sony/Nikon/Canon have taken cues from RED and they are all cross polinating thier R&D intitiatives ( haven't you noticed?)
The thing to remember is that there are very few cameras that are actually mature enough to hammer our the content for 5 years or more without some upgrades. The Consumer market is in huge flux and that's the key difference between companies' product lines is wether they are in fast track Kaizen or Long term Kaizen.

[Husah]

They also stole IP from Sony ( which led to litigation/negotiation stages) 

 

 

As far as I know, Red and Sony have never been involved in  litigation/negotiation  until this year 2013 after RED  (not Sony) sued F55, F5 and F65 for using compressed RAW. Sony counter sued in response claiming three patent violation. 

 

Big sensor video revolution happened as a natural followup to the use of CMOS sensors in DSLRs and simply advances in producing faster and cheaper electronics that can process that data and record it to faster cards.. This would have happened regardless even if no such company called Red existed. 

 

These advances will continue until in few years even cell phones would do 4K video. When that happens some people are going to say, look we will never have 4K on cellphones without Red, but of course that would be nonsense..It would be simply a result of cheaper and faster electronics and cheaper and faster with larger capacities flash memory cards, regardless if Red existed or not. 

[Xavier Plagaro Mussard]

I forgot about the Nikon, you are right! 

 

Let be honest about RED, it has been bought by people who makes movies or people with too much money. I don't think they have sold many, but they have shaken the audiovisual market to the root. Now BMD is doing this for the rest of us. Let's show some love instead of hate! 

 

Canon put video in the 5D2 because Nikon put 720P video in their Nikon D90.. 

 

I don't think the video in Canon or Nikon DSLRs had anything to do with RED whatsoever......

[AaronChicago]

I noticed that B&H changed the status from "Expected Availability: July 25" to "New Item, available for pre-order".

[Andrew Reid]

I noticed that B&H changed the status from "Expected Availability: July 25" to "New Item, available for pre-order".

 

Shit, meet fan.

 

[AaronChicago]

Shit, meet fan.
 

Thats a bummer. I was taking it as a good sign, but i guess its bad according to this guy.

[Andrew Reid]

2nd year running! Completely unacceptable.

 

Blackmagic are risking serious reputation damage with this.

[Maxine]

Blackmagic NEEDS to fulfill the majority of orders for BMC pocket camera before August 15 OR: they will be finished soon as camera company, I mean go back making stupid software/hardware that nobody wants. I dont care if they need to sign a pact with a Devil, sell their babies, whore out their wifes/girfriends or sell their kidneys on black market but they need to keep up with their promises...Nobody is going to wait even 2 f*cking months! The world is moving too fast these days! They're shooting themselves in the foot. Hope you understand my black humor. Haha lol