Biggest European dealer CVP 'in the dark' over new Blackmagic cameras

[IronFilm]

A fellow Aucklander (New Zealand) has just got the green light from Blackmagic to share this footage from the BMPCC!

 

Auckland In My Pocket - Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

 

This is pretty exciting as this footage from Hook is the first ever footage online aside from John Brawley's, people should be feeling a little more confident now about the delivery dates :-)

{or at least something kinda close to them, but remember this is when they ship to their distributors which means a bit longer until it actually gets in your hands. And depends on how early your order was and at what rate they can get them out}

 

[HurtinMinorKey]

You can see the IQ of the sensor is on par with any raw camera out there. On the other hand, looks like going handheld with anything other than the widest lens is tough. Image stabilization becomes a real bitch with the smaller sensor. But for only $1000 it's a steal. 

[ErikSwan]

I emailed B&H today asking about the status of the Pocket camera and where I was in the pre-order line. Here's the exact email:
 

Hi there, 
 
I pre-ordered the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera they day it was announced (April 8, at around 1:30pm, to be exact, order #XXXXXXXXXX), and I was wondering if you could tell me my exact place in the pre-order queue for the camera. 
 
I was also wondering if you have any information on when you believe the cameras will start shipping. I know Blackmagic originally said they would be shipping in July, and you had the date July 25 on the item page until a few days ago. 
 
Do you still expect them to ship this month? If you have a date that you expect them to start shipping, or (even better), a date when you think I will receive mine based on my place in the queue, that would be great. 
 
Thank you!

 

Here is their response (my emphasis):

 

 

Hello Erik, my name is Adrian Y: 

 

Thank you for contacting the Customer Service Department at B&H Photo Video and Pro Audio. 

 

I am sorry we still don't have an ETA on the item you are inquiring about. We are waiting for the manufacturer to send it to us. I am unable to view where exactly you are, however, I can see that the orders waiting for the blackmagic camera started in the beginning of April. Have a wonderful day. 

 

Please let us know if you require any further assistance. 

 

Thank you, we appreciate your business. 

 

Adrian Y 

B&H Photo Video and Pro Audio 

The Professional's Source. 

E-Mail Customer Service Department 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com 

 

 

Disappointing, to say the least. I agree that if they are late again, they will be nothing short of a laughingstock in my mind. It's completely unacceptable. I think we were all very surprised to hear them announce a July shipping date in the first place, but we figured, well, they must be very serious this time, surely they wouldn't allow themselves to even come close to repeating the debacle of the BMCC?

 

Short of a very thorough and apologetic explanation, failing to ship in July will just make it look like they have a corporate policy of deception and enjoy lying through their teeth to their customers, especially since that they were (at least publicly) so sure it would be shipping in July less than a month ago. 

 

Meanwhile, I am hearing that samples that have been sent out to John Brawley and the New Zealand guy above do not even have RAW functionality yet, and that this may be coming in a "future firmware upgrade." If they end up shipping the camera without RAW recording ability, I will be even more shocked and angry than if it ships late. I put $1000 down for this camera for its RAW ability, as nice as the ProRes footage may be, and failing to ship with such a significant advertised feature will be nothing short of false advertising.

[peederj]

Rainbow moire on the tile edges in the lower left corner at 0:21. On par with earlier BMD cams using this sensor. Not quite on par with ARRI RAW.

[cantsin]

Rainbow moire on the tile edges in the lower left corner at 0:21. On par with earlier BMD cams using this sensor. Not quite on par with ARRI RAW.

 

Couldn't see that on my downloaded file playing in VLC. But: Whether or not Vimeo compression is to blame, images are quite soft/detail resolution is low. Look at hair, texture of clothing, even the beach volleyball net is invisible because of detail lack. Very likely an effect of the native 1920x1080 sensor - if you add an extra 30% resolution loss caused by debayering. 

 

There is a chance though that we'll get better results with an Adobe After Effects workflow since Adobe Camera Raw generally gets much more resolution detail out of raw files than Resolve. (At least with raw video files shot on the Canon 50D.) 

[Andrew Reid]

Disappointing, to say the least. I agree that if they are late again, they will be nothing short of a laughingstock in my mind. It's completely unacceptable. I think we were all very surprised to hear them announce a July shipping date in the first place, but we figured, well, they must be very serious this time, surely they wouldn't allow themselves to even come close to repeating the debacle of the BMCC?

 

I put $1000 down for this camera for its RAW ability, as nice as the ProRes footage may be, and failing to ship with such a significant advertised feature will be nothing short of false advertising.

 

A good way of crystallising why I think Blackmagic are in the wrong here.

 

Last year it was different. Sensor supplier made an error with the dirty glass, Blackmagic helped them fix it. Or so the story goes.

 

This year it is nothing but a complete balls up, and I'm not talking about the Pocket camera delays - we'll see on that one at the end of the month - no I'm talking about the fact that even a year after it was due to be in stores, the original camera is still made in low quantities and the MFT version is only just starting to ship, again in small quantities. It is an abject failure.

[Bruno]

On par with earlier BMD cams using this sensor. Not quite on par with ARRI RAW.

 

It's not the same sensor, it's been mentioned many times. It's a "similar quality" sensor, different supplier.

And yeah, who would have have guessed this camera is not on par with Arri raw? What a huge disappointment :)

[ErikSwan]

Well, the plot thickens...
 
Quoting from here.
 

RAW is not likely to be ready for shipping but will be added later.

 

:rolleyes:

 

The item that I paid $1000 for was clearly advertised as having RAW recording capability. If the piece of metal and plastic and silicon that shows up on my doorstep doesn't have the ability to record RAW images, we're going to have a problem here.

[jgharding]

I just can't support this "business model" I'm afraid. Hence I pulled out my cash. Getting lots of enthusiasts to fund your product, then delivering below spec and late, releasing things effectively in Beta and trickling out features over another year.

 

You could see two years pass between paying cash and getting what you were originally promised. Why not just bring in some investors and release it when it's actually ready? I'm staying on the sidelines for now. A friend has an original model so I'll have a blast on that.

[Bioskop.Inc]

What do you think the legal situation would be if they take ages to add the Raw Firmware?

 

I know that by law (UK) you have a cooling off period (around 30days) & there is also the "if it doesn't work as advertised" - so any buyers should be covered, but for how long?

So, how long after purchase before it all gets a bit too much (the firmware doesn't materialise) & more importantly, our consumer rights fly out the window?

We know that Raw shouldn't be a problem (ML Hack) & fast SD cards will be fine with compressed CinDNGs, but shouldn't this have been done already!

 

CVP have added 31/7/13 as a date now, so i would've thought 31/8/13 will be the more realistic date.

 

Also, I would've thought with 9 days to go a quick pic of a warehouse full of stock would be ideal to calm people down, but they haven't backed down on their end of July statement, so......?

[Miydeewilliams]

Blackmagic were always originally quoted as saying the camera would ship with prores and then RAW would be added later.  It was only after the video from Broadcast Asia where the Blackmagic rep said it was now going to ship with RAW functionality in July.

 

Reading between the lines I get the impression that when Magic Lantern released the RAW hack Blackmagic were worried that this would eat into their market, decided to roll the dice and push forward the RAW firmware for the pocket, and now that they've done that they are struggling to hit the new deadline.  

 

This is purely speculation but I reckon they could ship a load tomorrow with just the prores functionality, but they are trying to give themselves to the very last minute to get the RAW firmware ready and stable.

[/p/]

[Bruno]

If he's saying that I'd assume they're trying to get the cameras out ASAP.
By the time these cameras get to the buyers, 2-4 weeks, they could have the raw update available, and all would be fine. This would actually be a smart way of not delaying the camera shipment for another few weeks.

[Andrew Reid]

I just can't support this "business model" I'm afraid. Hence I pulled out my cash. Getting lots of enthusiasts to fund your product, then delivering below spec and late, releasing things effectively in Beta and trickling out features over another year.

 

You could see two years pass between paying cash and getting what you were originally promised. Why not just bring in some investors and release it when it's actually ready? I'm staying on the sidelines for now. A friend has an original model so I'll have a blast on that.

 

I don't think Blackmagic got cash advances from dealers from the preorder stash. Some dealers didn't charge a deposit. But I'm 100% with you on the sentiment. I can't support what Blackmagic are doing here and I'm seeing some very concerning cracks open up in the lines we've been fed. To deliver 12 months late is one thing. To look for all the world that they might do so for the 2nd year running on 2 more products is even worse. Delivering below spec is absolutely the cherry on top of my dissatisfaction with the way they are doing business. If you are holding out for a raw firmware update on the Pocket which you have paid for, just bear in mind that the BMCC has had no significant features added since it was announced, not even audio meters.

[Andrew Reid]

If he's saying that I'd assume they're trying to get the cameras out ASAP.
By the time these cameras get to the buyers, 2-4 weeks, they could have the raw update available, and all would be fine. This would actually be a smart way of not delaying the camera shipment for another few weeks.

 

Bruno please don't be naive. The production ramp up time is long for a complicated device like this. Do you really think they have any idea when they will get the cameras to customers? If it were a few weeks, the production line would be already going. They'd be able to tell us a firm date. Neither seems to be true. They can't even give B&H an ETA let alone customers!

[Bruno]

I just can't support this "business model" I'm afraid. Hence I pulled out my cash. Getting lots of enthusiasts to fund your product...

Keep in mind they don't see any money until they deliver.
People pay pre orders so resellers give them priority once they have cameras in store, that's between you and that reseller, it implies no ties whatsoever between you and BMD.
Also, the store next door could have cameras on their shelves between you even get your preorder, and all you can do is wait, so preordering is not that great of an idea, and it doesn't fund althe development of any camera.

[Bruno]

Bruno please don't be naive. The production ramp up time is long for a complicated device like this. Do you really think they have any idea when they will get the cameras to customers? If it were a few weeks, the production line would be already going. They'd be able to tell us a firm date. Neither seems to be true. They can't even give B&H an ETA let alone customers!

I didn't say they're shipping in 2-4 weeks, I have no idea when they're shipping.

What I said is, once they start shipping, cameras can take 2-4 weeks to reach their customers.

So what I meant is, if thy have the cameras ready for release, but they need a few weeks to sort out the raw support, it could be a smart move to ship them and finish the firmware while the cameras are on the move, instead of delaying its shipment a few more weeks.
Of course this would be risky and they'd had to deliver the firmware on time.

[AaronChicago]

Here's a question for everyone. Would you rather:

 

A. Blackmagic to never have created a camera?

B. Blackmagic create cameras, but consistently late in delivering?

[Bruno]

Do you really think they have any idea when they will get the cameras to customers?

Well they should have a pretty good idea yeah, whether they're sharing it or not is another thing, but this is kind of their job so they should know...
They keep saying July, just last week someone from BMD said July, they booked two events in the USA for July and August, so yeah, I'd say they have an idea when they're shipping...

[Miydeewilliams]

Here's a question for everyone. Would you rather:

 

A. Blackmagic to never have created a camera?

B. Blackmagic create cameras, but consistently late in delivering?

I'd rather they create a camera and deliver it on time!