Biggest European dealer CVP 'in the dark' over new Blackmagic cameras

[Bruno]

Here's a question for everyone. Would you rather: A. Blackmagic to never have created a camera?B. Blackmagic create cameras, but consistently late in delivering?

Why does it have to be one of the two?
I repeat, they're not late yet, they said it would ship in July, so if cameras get to the stores by late August I don't see that as "late".

However, if they do fuck up again, I'll be the first to point the finger and blame the way they're doing business. Just not before.

[HurtinMinorKey]

Bruno please don't be naive. The production ramp up time is long for a complicated device like this. Do you really think they have any idea when they will get the cameras to customers? If it were a few weeks, the production line would be already going. They'd be able to tell us a firm date. Neither seems to be true. They can't even give B&H an ETA let alone customers!

 

What makes you think they haven't been produced yet? My guess is that they are waiting on the firmware, and that thousands of units are already produced.

[AaronChicago]

Why does it have to be one of the two?
I repeat, they're not late yet, they said it would ship in July, so if cameras get to the stores by late August I don't see that as "late".
However, if they do fuck up again, I'll be the first to point the finger and blame the way they're doing business. Just not before.

It doesnt have to be one of two, i'm just posing a question to determine peoples tolerance.

[iamoui]

I don't think Blackmagic got cash advances from dealers from the preorder stash. Some dealers didn't charge a deposit. But I'm 100% with you on the sentiment. I can't support what Blackmagic are doing here and I'm seeing some very concerning cracks open up in the lines we've been fed. To deliver 12 months late is one thing. To look for all the world that they might do so for the 2nd year running on 2 more products is even worse. Delivering below spec is absolutely the cherry on top of my dissatisfaction with the way they are doing business. If you are holding out for a raw firmware update on the Pocket which you have paid for, just bear in mind that the BMCC has had no significant features added since it was announced, not even audio meters.

 

You can't support what BlackMagic are doing? Lines we've been fed? Blackmagic is clearly trying to put high quality motion picture capture devices in to the hands of those that can't afford higher-end cameras. Would Blackmagic purposefully try to sully their own name by not shipping on time? I think not. What it comes down to for me is that they're TRYING. They're TRYING to get cheaper, high quality cameras out there. They succeeded with the 2.5k, albeit with some heavy downfalls but, hey, that's part of the process! They were never a camera manufacturer. Now, they're trying. I can not fault them for that. There will always be shortcomings, that's part of life. I like AaronChicago's question, and to go along with that I sure am glad BlackMagic is trying to make cameras. No ONE is perfect and no THING is perfect. Let's just all take a step back and be glad that there is someone out there trying to put high quality imagery in our hands at an affordable price.  

[Andrew Reid]

Yeah, I agree Magic Lantern doing a fantastic job at that.

[Andrew Reid]

i'm just posing a question to determine peoples tolerance.

 

Tolerance is a good word. Mine just ran out.

[anchoricex]

A good way of crystallising why I think Blackmagic are in the wrong here.

 

Last year it was different. Sensor supplier made an error with the dirty glass, Blackmagic helped them fix it. Or so the story goes.

 

This year it is nothing but a complete balls up, and I'm not talking about the Pocket camera delays - we'll see on that one at the end of the month - no I'm talking about the fact that even a year after it was due to be in stores, the original camera is still made in low quantities and the MFT version is only just starting to ship, again in small quantities. It is an abject failure.

It seems as if they either greatly undermine the demand for their own product, are too unsure of how to produce on a bigger scale, or worst case scenario just want their product to be a rare elitist item. I highly doubt it's the latter, but if they don't know how to produce on a bigger scale, someone else is going to come along and beat them to the punch. Welcome to the free market, Blackmagic Design.

[Bruno]

Tolerance is a good word. Mine just ran out.

 

And then again, they're not even late yet...

Keep in mind you dismissed the 5D3 a few times before, when it came out because it was soft, when the speed booster was announced because it made full frame redundant and unnecessary, and now you swear by it.

 

Also, Magic Lantern has never designed, built and mass produced a camera before, so the comparisons don't really apply, do they?

 

I guess all I'm saying is there's no need to be that quick on the trigger. :)

[Andrew Reid]

And then again, they're not even late yet...

Keep in mind you dismissed the 5D3 a few times before, when it came out because it was soft, when the speed booster was announced because it made full frame redundant and unnecessary, and now you swear by it.

 

Your summary of my reportage is fucking shit. You've taken my points, simplified them, stupefied them and taken them out of context.

 

Speed Booster makes a soft crappy full frame H.264 feed redundant when you can put one on a Super 35mm 4K raw cinema camera. That's what I was saying.

 

The 5D3 was soft. Things change. Magic Lantern raw came out.

 

It is OK to dismiss something once, then accept it again when it is in dramatically improved form.

 

You're a fucking idiot.

[iamoui]

Your summary of my reportage is fucking shit. You've taken my points, simplified them, stupefied them and taken them out of context.

 

Speed Booster makes a soft crappy full frame H.264 feed redundant when you can put one on a Super 35mm 4K raw cinema camera. That's what I was saying.

 

The 5D3 was soft. Things change. Magic Lantern raw came out.

 

It is OK to dismiss something once, then accept it again when it is in dramatically improved form.

 

You're a fucking idiot.

Wow, looks like someone can't take a little criticism. 

 

Bruno in no way sounded malicious toward you yet you come back at him like a middle-schooler. He was simply pointing things out. 

 

EOSHD I don't know how old you are but you come across as very immature, at least when someone else points something out about you. Good grief!

[Bruno]

Your summary of my reportage is fucking shit. You've taken my points, simplified them, stupefied them and taken them out of context.

 

Speed Booster makes a soft crappy full frame H.264 feed redundant when you can put one on a Super 35mm 4K raw cinema camera. That's what I was saying.

 

The 5D3 was soft. Things change. Magic Lantern raw came out.

 

It is OK to dismiss something once, then accept it again when it is in dramatically improved form.

 

You're a fucking idiot.

 

Wow, now THAT is balanced moderation. Stay classy Andrew.

[HurtinMinorKey]

Yeah, I agree Magic Lantern doing a fantastic job at that.

 

It helps when you get code fed to you by the manufacturer... :D

 

But Andrew, i think you are still forgetting that we are talking about a tiny company (at least compared to Canon). The don't have an entire PR department and they don't have 1000 heads working on the supply chain for a single product.

 

At the end of the day, the fact that they sent a public deadline has forced them to get camera out ASAP.  It sucks, but lets not pretend than any of us where planning our life around the release of this product.

 

I'm really surprised at how angry people are getting.

[Gavin]

Sorry, but this is comparing apples to oranges. The only Canon/Magic Lantern camera shooting raw at acceptable resolutions and costing less than $1000 is the 50D. That's a hefty camera without sound recording and a 15 megapixel instead of a native 1080p sensor, thus causing scaling/moiree/aliasing artefacts (or forcing you into a zoom mode for which no adequate focal length lenses fit the Canon EF mount). What's more, raw video on it is currently highly experimental, unreliable and prone to glitches in daily operation. And it has no ProRes+log codec as a daily workhouse HQ video recording fallback.

Thank god someone has finally said it. I'm so tired of people acting like ML RAW is here for professionals.  The constant hype is really ridiculous.  It's still in it's experimental stages and if anyone was to use a hacked Mark III on a real paid shoot, then they're borderline crazy.  It's not very stable and with the cost of real cards(not the silly Komputerbay cards, which only 1 of 2 work on average) you might as well rent a BMCC for a day and save yourself money, not to mention a stable head on set because you know you have a camera that works. To boot the workflow is a complete nightmare. 

[Andrew Reid]

I don't care how much money you are profoundly interesting from making from your PRO SHOOOOOTS with a camera, and that is the primary reason I have zero interest in whether you think Magic Lantern is reliable enough for such a money making excerise or not.

 

In truth, the software is reliable. I press a button and raw video comes out.

 

In truth, the workflow is not a nightmare. I drag and drop the files to an app, and ProRes and Cinema DNG happen.

 

Don't criticise what you don't understand, and if you do in fact understand it, show some.

[Andrew Reid]

Wow, now THAT is balanced moderation. Stay classy Andrew.

 

Who says I am moderating?

 

I think your opinion is idiotic. That's the main thing.

[Bioskop.Inc]

I think some level headed perspective is needed.

 

BM said that they'd start to ship units in July - now you've got to assume they meant to the distributers.

The units have to get to the distributors & then they get shipped to customers - the turn around for all that is a month (end-August). 

Its 9 days until the end of July - so they're not late & haven't led anyone down the garden path yet.

 

 

If you really thought you'd get a camera in your hands by the end of July then you're just simply not being very realistic & the fact that people can't wait (maybe an extra month) is just a little pathetic really.

 

I'm doing a music video & I used ML Raw - the shoot went fine (no problems at all & only 1 pink frame), but the workflow has got me on my knees! But this is because I was using a 60D & filmed 80gb - am finally happy as Larry right now!

[Andrew Reid]

Wow, looks like someone can't take a little criticism. 

 

Bruno in no way sounded malicious toward you yet you come back at him like a middle-schooler. He was simply pointing things out. 

 

EOSHD I don't know how old you are but you come across as very immature, at least when someone else points something out about you. Good grief!

 

Criticism is fine when it makes sense. Otherwise it's just annoying.

 

I don't know how many blogs or forums you run iamoui, but until you have that perspective you have no idea.

[Andrew Reid]

If you really thought you'd get a camera in your hands by the end of July then you're just simply not being very realistic & the fact that people can't wait (maybe an extra month) is just a little pathetic really.

 

Yes, silly customers! They believe what they're told! How stupid! Blackmagic announce a camera in April, say you will be getting it in July. Doesn't sound at all realistic to me!

 

None of this anger is at all justified.

 

Customers should never expect Blackmagic to deliver on any of their promises.

 

[End of sarcasm]

[HurtinMinorKey]

^ I think that's going a little far, Gavin. The work flow on Canon raw isn't that bad if you have the complementary hardware. Furthermore, the benefits of a full frame raw camera are huge, especially when running and gunning (so much less shake). But i do think ML raw get's over hyped. I think the BMD sensor still clearly produces a better image (when stabilized), but no doubt the ML hack is a HUGE improvement over the old 5D3 video.

 

But all this is besides the fact. The last footage off the Pocket camera shows real promise, raw or not (my thoughts about the camera man aside). I think we'll start getting them in August, and a one month delay is not the end of the world, not even close. And remember, i was the one telling you guys (including EOS) that you were crazy as for expectations for the delivery of the BMCC. This situation smells different. I think they are a lot closer.

 

Now, as for the BMPrC... :ph34r:

[iamoui]

Criticism is fine when it makes sense. Otherwise it's just annoying.

 

I don't know how many blogs or forums you run iamoui, but until you have that perspective you have no idea.

 

The number of blogs or forums I run is irrelevant. However, if I did have a blog or forum I would act as respectful and professional as possible.

 

Who says criticism has to make sense? Couldn't all criticism be "annoying" depending on the individual? What makes sense to one person might not make sense to another. It's how you respond to it. You obviously responded negatively and with profanity. Good luck with your blogs and forums that you run.