Blackmagic 4K Production Camera 'now due in September'

[Andrew Reid]

[media]http://vimeo.com/63604452[/media]

Blackmagic are holding an event right now in LA and information is being reported back by attendees from the Blackmagic reps present. EOSHD takes a look at what's new...

[url=http://www.eoshd.com/content/10856/blackmagic-4k-production-camera-now-due-in-september]Read the full article here[/url]

[peederj]

John Brawley’s had this to say on the 4K Production Camera at the official Blackmagic Design forum -

 

“I prefer the greater DR of the BMCC [original] over the increased resolution of the 4K”

 

 

Devastating that Our Hero would claim his own patrons are moving backwards.

[Andrew Reid]

Backwards, not really.

 

If you need global shutter and 4K then it is another option that didn't exist before.

 

That it doesn't exist now either, is a bit troubling, but I digress...

 

The image on the BMCC mFT 2.5K is lovely and the glass for that mount is too. What Blackmagic need to do is simply build on what they already have and nip the 4K adventure in the butt.

[HurtinMinorKey]

Backwards, not really.

 

If you need global shutter and 4K then it is another option that didn't exist before.

 

That it doesn't exist now either, is a bit troubling, but I digress...

 

The image on the BMCC mFT 2.5K is lovely and the glass for that mount is too. What Blackmagic need to do is simply build on what they already have and nip the 4K adventure in the butt.

 

 

to some extent I agree with this. I think a full frame version of the original BMCC sensor, along with some of the pro features that Andrew mentioned in his article would be worth it.

[peederj]

Sony already has a full-frame mirrorless camcorder with poor low-light and tons of moire. VG-900.

 

(Wait...you're gonna say "RAW!!1!")

[Andrew Reid]

Sony already has a full-frame mirrorless camcorder with poor low-light and tons of moire. VG-900.

 

(Wait...you're gonna say "RAW!!1!")

 

Whatever, and Paris has the Eiffel tower.

 

Enough with the straw men arguments. Deal with the points presented to you or not at all. Makes the thread go off topic.

[MattH]

Good Idea about updating the original BMCC.

 

But what they need more than anything is an anti aliasing filter.   That rainbow moire is just too much.

 

A large viewfinder with focus peaking would help too.  Basically a small camcorder form factor or a maybe a bit like ikonoskop (but ambidextrous) since it doesn't have to appeal to stills people.

 

But I cant see this happening, and I cant see either the pocket or the 4k coming out in any real numbers this year.

[Andrew Reid]

Mosaic Engineering are preparing an anti-aliasing filter for the BMCC, but ideally it should be in the camera out of the box along with a built in ND wheel.

 

Now with this kind of spec creep you are going to get a price rise.

 

So maybe consolidating should mean evolving the BMCC rather than revolutionising it.

 

Evolution for me would be -

 

- Existence

- Higher quantities produced to meet demand

- Firmware update for audio meters, histogram, better focus assists

- Active mFT mount like Pocket Camera

- Compressed raw

- Improved LCD

 

I'd take all that, even for an extra $1000 instead of the 4K camera.

[Kays Alatrakchi]

Just got back from the L.A. Blackmagic event today. I suspect Blackmagic is about to get ranted on by quite a few online sites for pushing back the release date that they so confidently affirmed wouldn't be an issue back at NAB.

 

The Blackmagic Pocket is also a slow trickle. According to some dealers yes the Pocket cameras will start shipping over the next week or so....straight to the Blackmagic offices and not to dealers! That's right, the Pocket cameras will actually first stop at Blackmagic where they will receive a firmware update, and only then will they start to be shipped to the dealers. I'm told to expect a very few trickle, so for some people who preordered the Pocket cameras, it could still be a couple of months away.

 

The Blackmagic Production camera was also a disappointment, not just for the delayed shipping, but also for the fact that they still seem not quite ready in the software/firmware departments.

 

Lastly, Resolve 10 is supposedly still on track for "3rd quarter" which could be any day, or still a couple of months away.

 

All in all not a particularly exciting or revealing day with Blackmagic....but they did have free cookies!

[Ben Prater]

I'm not surprised that Brawley prefers the 13-stops the BMCC offers. Especially if the BMPC isn't even quite hitting 12-stops right now.

 

I never understood why people were pre-ordering the BMPC before they saw footage. Especially with new sensor tech like the global shutter. 

 

At the end of the day, cinematographers want gorgeous images. BMCC provides in spades. BMCC is being used in professional productions as a B-cam to Alexa. If you need global shutter because you love to whip pan, the BMPC might be a good choice. 

 

Andrew -- thanks for the update post on Blackmagic. You might toss in the new PDF manual from Blackmagic. On a disappointing day, it was fun to read a little bit more about the camera systems.

[peederj]

An OLPF only works on downsampling sensors, e.g. taking 18MP down to 2MP. The BMCC has a native res sensor, 2.5MP is all you have to work with. The OLPF (from Mosaic or BMD or whoever) will only blur your output, it will not remove moire any better than you could in post (which is not very much at all). Therefore that sensor is stuck with the moire it suffers from; no tricks are available.

[Andrew Reid]

Just got back from the L.A. Blackmagic event today. I suspect Blackmagic is about to get ranted on by quite a few online sites for pushing back the release date that they so confidently affirmed wouldn't be an issue back at NAB.

 

The Blackmagic Pocket is also a slow trickle. According to some dealers yes the Pocket cameras will start shipping over the next week or so....straight to the Blackmagic offices and not to dealers! That's right, the Pocket cameras will actually first stop at Blackmagic where they will receive a firmware update, and only then will they start to be shipped to the dealers. I'm told to expect a very few trickle, so for some people who preordered the Pocket cameras, it could still be a couple of months away.

 

The Blackmagic Production camera was also a disappointment, not just for the delayed shipping, but also for the fact that they still seem not quite ready in the software/firmware departments.

 

Lastly, Resolve 10 is supposedly still on track for "3rd quarter" which could be any day, or still a couple of months away.

 

All in all not a particularly exciting or revealing day with Blackmagic....but they did have free cookies!

 

Thanks for the first hand info.

 

Well, my suspicions of the last few weeks it seems were justified. There were a lot of hints.

 

I don't know how many orders of the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera they need to ship to satisfy all customers in August. I can see it being that unless they ship 1000, it might be the same situation as the BMCC in 2012/13, and that is unacceptable. If they trickle out 30 a month, it just won't cut it. At $999 that is a product that needs the higher quantities to succeed.

 

Maybe now, people can better understand my disappointment and anger over what is going on at Blackmagic. All the signs pointed to this recently, and it is something they cannot really afford.

 

That the Pocket Camera goes from the factory to the Blackmagic offices strikes me as having a manufacturing setup in China as opposed to in-house, though I have no idea what exactly the set up is - I expect this will cause further delays before it reaches customers because if Blackmagic are putting the new firmware on production models for the first time and hit a snag, or it needs testing extensively then we're going to be in for a further wait.

[Andrew Reid]

I'm not surprised that Brawley prefers the 13-stops the BMCC offers. Especially if the BMPC isn't even quite hitting 12-stops right now.

 

I never understood why people were pre-ordering the BMPC before they saw footage. Especially with new sensor tech like the global shutter. 

 

At the end of the day, cinematographers want gorgeous images. BMCC provides in spades. BMCC is being used in professional productions as a B-cam to Alexa. If you need global shutter because you love to whip pan, the BMPC might be a good choice. 

 

Andrew -- thanks for the update post on Blackmagic. You might toss in the new PDF manual from Blackmagic. On a disappointing day, it was fun to read a little bit more about the camera systems.

 

Cheers! The manual - http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/media/5813056/Blackmagic_Camera_Manual_July_2013.pdf

[peederj]

Fascinating that the manual includes instructions on replacing the fan (is that so common it's in the manual?) but claims the internal battery is off-limits to users. They really, really don't want you to have exchangeable batteries, but fans? I wonder if the few BMCC productions should carry spares.

[Andrew Reid]

Also, there's no peaking.

 

 

Focus Button on Pocket Cinema Camera

When using Pocket Cinema Camera with an autofocus lens press the FOCUS button for focus peaking or AF.

[Andrew Reid]

From official forum -

 

BMPCC: Still waiting on the green light (I assume from some form of manufacturing QC) for mass shipping. No numbers yet (I don't think they even want to know them) but a few more demos have begun shipping to retailers. It should be a couple or three business days before those start shipping out. You're not getting RAW on the first wave. That's coming later on a firmware update. 
BMCC4K: Still has about 3 to 4 weeks worth of development before those are ready to be approved for shipping. Not sure what the technical issues are, but those are taking a bit more time.

 

Key bit - Still waiting on green light to start mass production of Pocket.

[mtheory]

[peederj]

Some lingo for you: In R&D, "two weeks" equals "we know the issues but don't know how long it will take to fix them." "Three weeks" means "we don't know all the issues and god-only-knows how long it will be." A hard shipping date means R&D is complete and has released to production.

[Kays Alatrakchi]

 If they trickle out 30 a month, it just won't cut it. At $999 that is a product that needs the higher quantities to succeed.

 

That the Pocket Camera goes from the factory to the Blackmagic offices strikes me as having a manufacturing setup in China as opposed to in-house, though I have no idea what exactly the set up is - I expect this will cause further delays before it reaches customers because if Blackmagic are putting the new firmware on production models for the first time and hit a snag, or it needs testing extensively then we're going to be in for a further wait.

 

What I was told today (from one of the dealers) is this:

 

Pocket camera is shipping is low quantities (i.e. less than 100 units, I was actually told about 10 at a time). The manufacturing is apparently happening in Singapore. 

 

The same dealer told me that the BMCC is also still a slow trickle as well. He mentioned that even right now he doesn't have any in stock and the only way to get some in is to start calling their distributor and raise some stink to get them to move quicker. In all fairness, he did say that BM is not as much to blame as their distributors who sometimes tend to play favorites (i.e. prioritize bigger dealers like B&H vs. some of the smaller dealers).

 

His opinion is that the BMCC's image quality is likely to outperform the new 4K camera, he also feels that the data management will be an even greater issue since 4K footage (at the Pro Res file size) is still quite huge.

 

FWIW, I recently ran a test on the Alexa, the BMCC and the 5D3 (video coming soon), and even though I feel that the Alexa produces an amazing image, the 5D3 raw was IMHO a much better image than what I was able to get out of the BMCC. 

 

Either way, these are very exciting times!!!

[Rob Bannister]

Nice, well now I know for certain what to expect from any announcement from Black magic design. I may ask around the forums I wanted raw but IM not wanting to support this company. I have to shoot with something better then my D800, needed a small form factor....maybe Panasonic. grrrrrr