Official statement from Blackmagic on new camera shipping

[Bruno]

I think the main question in the air is "are they being naive or are they being deceitful?".

That's what no one seems to be sure of, but whatever the answer is, they need to change their ways, maybe be more vague with release dates and say a trimester instead of a month, especially when announcing products so early on.

Or learn with the big guys and don't announce anything at all, it's out when it's out.

 

But there's another important point, I doubt anyone here would be questioning these (apparently) 2 week delay (for the BMPCC) and 1 month delay (BMPC), or making a huge fuss out of it if they haven't had problems with their first camera, so I'd rather give them the benefit of the doubt and see how they do. If by September they have both cameras shipping I don't see it as a big deal at all and I'd say they managed to do it right this time.

[peederj]

I concur with Maschwitz's analysis:

 

http://prolost.com/blog/2013/7/26/the-blackmagic-delays-everyone-saw-coming.html

 

And yeah, the "Chinese whispers" comment doesn't exactly display deft PR skills. That's, uh, a fairly large market for cameras.

[HurtinMinorKey]

Would people be happier with Apple's policy? Not tell anyone anything until the units are in the store?

[mtheory]

Would people be happier with Apple's policy? Not tell anyone anything until the units are in the store?

 

I think so. They shouldn't have announced anything at NAB and instead shocked everyone with shipping units. Apple are geniuses at product rollout. 

[Bruno]

The thing Is not any company can pull it off like Apple does, they've gotten products manufactured and delivered at stores that no one had even imagined they were working on, let alone produced and delivered.

Anyway, even without the secrecy and rumors running around, no one would be pointing them the finger if they hadn't made an announcement.

[HurtinMinorKey]

The thing Is not any company can pull it off like Apple does, they've gotten products manufactured and delivered at stores that no one had even imagined they were working on, let alone produced and delivered.

Anyway, even without the secrecy and rumors running around, no one would be pointing them the finger if they hadn't made an announcement.

 

Agreed, so is there no such thing as bad PUB in this case? I mean the forums have been flooded with people talking about BMD. 

[peederj]

The idea that everyone's in agony because they don't have their precious toy yet is good publicity.

 

The Heroic Pro Cinematographer that we're supposed to emulate saying the sensor on the new 4K camera sucks is devastating publicity.

 

The bungled, lurching marcomms is accurate publicity. Amateurish camera company. Amateurish products.

[tosvus]

The idea that everyone's in agony because they don't have their precious toy yet is good publicity.
 
The Heroic Pro Cinematographer that we're supposed to emulate saying the sensor on the new 4K camera sucks is devastating publicity.
 
The bungled, lurching marcomms is accurate publicity. Amateurish camera company. Amateurish products.

Get a grip. He said that he personally prefers the higher dynamic range of the old camera vs 4K. That is not the same as saying the new camera sucks. You should stop this vendetta since you are clearly motivated by some dubious reasons... you should get a time-out like in kindergarten..

[Bruno]

[quote name="peederj" post="39391" timestamp="1374888939"The Heroic Pro Cinematographer that we're supposed to emulate saying the sensor on the new 4K camera sucks is devastating publicity.
 [/quote]

If a $4k super 35 global shutter 4k compressed raw/prores camera sucks because it only does 12 stops, I wish more cameras would suck!

[peederj]

People always think I have some vendetta. No I have never, not once been in direct contact with a BMD employee or shareholder unless they were one of the undisclosed fluffers they sent out last year to work the online boards. Never did I buy or rent any BMD product. I also have no conflict of interest or contact whatsoever with any camera manufacturer, distributor, rental house or dealer other than as an ordinary customer. Can't I just be an honest person that dislikes bad business and feels the comments sections of blogs are where the truth should be found since the dealers and manufacturers sure aren't gonna provide it? Because that's exactly what you have here.

 

And I have no interest in making the conversation personal but I felt that disclosure should be made as the same sure isn't going to be volunteered by those who are, in fact, conflicted.

 

Enjoy your toy.

[bplet]

to be brutally honest, I could care less about exact ship dates or how close they match up to promises... i'd just like to see them actually release a 4K RAW s35 global shutter camera at this price point, at some point, sooner slightly better than later, because it will put that much pressure on all the other major manufacturers to stop f****ng around and come up with an answer... with similar features at similar price point.  win win

[Lee Mullen]

I think part of the problem is that Blackmagic keep attempting to put out the fire by adding gasoline.

 

Petrol Andrew, always petrol. Aussie's call it petrol mate (and Manc's). BMD being Aussie of course. ;) :lol:
 

[/p/]

>that feel when you should have pre-ordered the BMPCC instead of waiting and now it will take forever to get one.

 

Not really, in a few weeks I think I am just going to turn up at BMD HQ since I drive past it almost every week and try to buy one directly from them.. Wonder if it will work or not. 

[Andrew Reid]

to be brutally honest, I could care less about exact ship dates or how close they match up to promises... i'd just like to see them actually release a 4K RAW s35 global shutter camera at this price point, at some point, sooner slightly better than later, because it will put that much pressure on all the other major manufacturers to stop f****ng around and come up with an answer... with similar features at similar price point.  win win

 

It won't put pressure on Canon, Sony, etc. if they can't build them in quantity.

 

Blackmagic need a few years I feel to do this.

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

Based on how they've allowed the situation to be (mis)handled, and by not showing any leadership, I now tend to think they are very disorganized as a business overall. If they were being deceitful I think there would be a more unified method and voice, albeit one based on trickery. Instead, by letting chaos reign and different voices proliferate, they seem to have no idea how to make this happen. I sense goodwill on their part for sure, otherwise why the incredible price point? But, I also sense an odd combination of idealism and youthful ADD spread rampant through the company, so to speak, which is threatening to undermine their whole project in total.

The flip side is I'm glad they aren't like Apple yet. I'll take waiting for a well speced affordable product rather than one that is overpriced and underperforms...and that's coming fron an Apple user. Apple has shifted to 'giving us less' as a business model. At least BMD, with their similar appreciation for aesthetics, is trying to give you more for less. Their idealism is their best quality. They are making a mess of things like a child would, but at least there are good intentions. Hopefully, they can release a few good cameras in quantity before their business model gets seduced into the demands of the corporate world a la Apple.

[wombl]

Frankly, I consider the BMD statement outrageous (personally still waiting for the BMCC MFT). They're making fools of their customers. I believe this is some deliberate and historically bad marketing crap like "we must make people talk about the product, then we take the pre-orders, then we see how big the demand probably is, then we check who might manufacture our stuff" [ ... ]

I mean: They must be kidding. "We are on schedule. It will be July." "July means end of July." "End of July, yes, then we are done with our tests, but, well, production is another thing." "End of July, that is, can we call August still end of July? We surely can." [ ... ]

I'm still keen on the BMCC for its richness in detail etc. - but following this ridiculous story for a comparatively short time (since February) I really believe someone at BMD seriously needs to be fired. If the "marketing" policy is "invented" (sooooo clever) by the boss himself, well, then I would recommend a fast management buyout and sending the boss to the outback.

To me, the new "launch dates" really were a litmus test even if I'm not interested in the pocket or 4k version. With this "well, it's a delay, yes, but can't we pretend it is not? Will you buy some totally authorized (!) nonsens blah blah if you get it 'exclusively'?" - they have - in my opinion - ruined their image. Utterly. Sadly.

Am I upset? Yes, because I'm just fed up to see the world getting ruined by "we are so great, we are one big family, just smile" marketing clowns. BMD is, of course, not the only example here.

[Damon Mosier]

BMD clearly didn't learn the right lesson from last year. Even if they honestly thought they could get these things on the shelves in July, thanks to the BMCC launch last year, the best case scenario they could have possibly expected was that people would only credit them with avoiding another disaster. Simply meeting their self-imposed deadline would not have been enough to repair their reputation.

But by only giving themselves a few months, they took away any room they had to maneuver if things went sideways for any reason and risked being in the exact situation they find themselves in with no benefit of the doubt. But if they had instead said the cameras would be out by Christmas, knowing internally that they intended to be out by the end of July, they could absorb any unanticipated delays of a few weeks without scorn and actually come out looking pretty good when they rolled out "months ahead of schedule."
 

 

Say it will come out in July, really comes out in July = "Well... at least they didn't screw it up AGAIN..."

 

Say it will come out in July, really comes out in August = "I knew it! Just when I was ready to believe again! GRRR!"

 

Say it will come out in December, really comes out in August = "Holy crap, they really DID improve things from last year!"

Seems obvious to me...

[Lee Mullen]

What annoys me is how some people are happy to take this BMD BS up the arse with comments like "but at least they are trying" or "well we should be grateful for their innovations" or some other nonsense.

[peederj]

What annoys me is how some people are happy to take this BMD BS up the arse with comments like "but at least they are trying" or "well we should be grateful for their innovations" or some other nonsense.

 

Yes a lot of the problem stems from how much hype built up around their camera experiments. Had it been kept humble...sort of like the Digital Bolex or Kinefinity have been...then things would be a lot more normal. "There's this odd camera from Australia, quite clunky and primitive but it's cheap and records direct to ProRes or RAW even albeit from a small, moire-ridden sensor...whenever it ships" would be fine, everyone would know what they were getting into. But instead it's been like "OMG I'M CRYING THE REVOLUTION IS FINALLY HERE FILMMAKING HAS BEEN LIBERATED FROM THE STUDIO SYSTEM AND I HAVE MY ALEXA FOR $3000 AND CAN WASTE EVERYONE'S ARSE WITH THE BEST IMAGE QUALITY EVAR EVAR EVAR."

 

The hype got so intense that as Andrew has noted, BMD has become a household brand for "high-end cinema" amongst a nearly consumer level crowd, yet the company is utterly unable to serve such a crowd to its expectation levels, where all the features of all the lenses just work, the ergonomics and quality have been worked out, and order fulfillment is crisp and dependable. The very worst thing is how disappointed most people must be with their purchase and yet unable to bring themselves to admit it given how socially unacceptable it's become to say anything vaguely against this messianic corporate identity. (Cue protests from people who've never shot with anything better than DSLR)

 

Meanwhile the people who know better aren't stepping in to restore order, because they have the opinion seen above: 

 

 

because it will put that much pressure on all the other major manufacturers to stop f****ng around and come up with an answer... with similar features at similar price point.  win win

 

They know that the Japanese manufacturers could be giving us a lot better format and codec than they are right now (viz. the ML hack) and hope that the BMD hype will force their hand. It's quite possible the C100 is as cheap as it is (only a third the introduction price of the C300 less than two years ago for nearly the same camera) because of the BMD nonsense. But I discount much of that angle, I think the Japanese see BMD quite rightly as a bumbling beginner who's biting off more than they can chew, and they are also primarily interested in the 4K transition and are holding back the next generation of quality for it. They also are confident enough to take the time to make a product that really works in general and doesn't force productions onto a bleeding edge with dropped and pink frames and lenses that won't focus etc.

 

I hope development accelerates but not to the point of bleeding, but I think BMD's role in that has been overstated as misty-eyed heroism. Sony, for instance, is a desperate company already and needs the 4K transition to compete with Samsung et al. Canon is getting crushed by smartphones. Panasonic is gasping for air. JVC is a joke. BMD is a hipper, white JVC...rolling out "ooh-ahh" innovations before their time in forms that are laughably impractical to the experienced...but they're seen as the Second Coming of Steve Jobs. 

 

Marketing!

[Bruno]

It sounds like you don't like these BMD cameras, which is odd to say the least, since no one really knows how well they perform yet. :)

 

Complaining about their lateness is one thing, but bitching about the quality of cameras that no one has really tested yet makes you lose some credibility and look biased.

 

Anyway, why don't people just move along? Too offended to wait? Get something else, don't waste even more time trying to convince people who think differently how wrong they are. That's why diversity of offers is good, there will never be this ONE camera that will end them all.