Will the Sony A7S III have a 48 / 12 megapixel Quad Bayer Exmor RS sensor?

[Andrew Reid]

I am convinced Sony will go in the direction of Quad Bayer stacked CMOS sensors for the A7S series and it's a major reason we've waited so long for it. I also think the FS5's electronically variable ND filter will be in the camera too.

Quad Bayer answers the conundrum of balancing low light performance and megapixel count. It is the best of both worlds and allows a 48 megapixel 8000 x 6000 image and 8K video - at the same time as 4000 x 3000 and 4K video with better low light performance.

The proof of concept is sitting in my hands right now. Step forward the mighty Xiaomi Mi 9 smartphone with 48 megapixel Sony Quad Bayer sensor and 960fps slow-mo.

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[OliKMIA]

Very interesting piece. Thanks.

[currensheldon]

That would be a huuuuge leap for the A7s series. Wouldn't they put this in an FS7 or FS5 first? If the A7sIII had 8K, quad-bayer sensor, internal electronic NDs, and the other features you mentioned, wouldn't that eat into their Super35 video cameras? 

Something like this gives me a lot of hope for the GH series and MFT cameras actually. Because I have a feeling you won't see the internal NDs and high-quality audio in a full-frame mirrorless until 3-4 years after you see it in a $20k+ video/cinema camera. But because it is MFT, manufacturers can make the case that if you want Super35 or full-frame video, those would still be "higher-end" - but a GH6 with the sensor you mentioned, with that megapixel count for stills, great low light ability, might actually get something like internal NDs to differentiate itself from other APS-C and full-frame mirrorless cameras.

Interesting piece however it shakes out. Thanks for sharing. 

 

 

[androidlad]

Short answer: no it will not, or shall we say, it does not ?

Long answer: Quad Bayer is a cost-effective compromise to boost low light performance by dropping resolution by 4 times. What if I tell you there are more sophisticated technologies to achieve unparalleled low light performance while still maintaining high resolution? We can have designs such as Deep Trench Isolation (DTI), Pyramid Surface Diffractor (PSD) and colour-aware ADC, they address crosstalk, QE and read noise which are key metrics for low light performance.

[Elias]

When you think about it, Sony does not need to launch two new cameras with this technology. Instead of launching an A7R IV and an A7S IV, why not simply a new A7RS capable of doing high-res still and low-light video and 8k capture if so desired? And then it's up to the user to change between modes either manually or automatically.

My hope is that Sony does not start to segment the market using software to sell us different cameras at different price points (hackers would have a field day btw if they did this), and instead throw everything they can into a great camera which I'm sure would sell like hotcakes.

I can even imagine a scenario where we could unlock features (like 8K, etc) after we buy the camera (I'd be down with that so long as is reasonably-priced).

 

[deezid]

In case Sony applies the same cheap temporal noise reduction algorithm they use on their A73 shooting video above ISO 1600 causing all bunch of motion artifacts and ghosting, the Pocket 4K will remain the better low light video camera.

[OzNimbus]

The correct answer is:  who cares?  The only thing I want to know is:  will it have a flip around screeen?    I need to get content out the door as quickly as possible, and the Sony screens with the exception of the A6400 are a stumbling block that just slows down the entire operation.

i dicked around with the a7s for the first 3 years of my show, then switched to the GH5.   ...a far more practical camera for YouTube.  Would love to shoot on Sony again, but not if it’s going to be a pain in the ass!

—Glenn

www.youtube.com/spectresoundstudios

 

[Video Hummus]

This is possibly good news for MFT cameras and shooters. It sounds like a path to bring MFT into the 8K world in a cost effective way while combating some of the weak points like low light performance. I believe DoF will become a creative software choice in the future. I so enjoy the lighter kit and great video MFT offers. Especially when you have to lug it up a mountain or on long shooting days.

Sure, the same can be applied to FF with even better specs but at some point I’ll trade image quality for other features I.e., better sensor stabilization, less weight, more FPS, smaller telephoto, etc..

[currensheldon]

1 hour ago, Video Hummus said:

This is possibly good news for MFT cameras and shooters. It sounds like a path to bring MFT into the 8K world in a cost effective way while combating some of the weak points like low light performance. I believe DoF will become a creative software choice in the future. I so enjoy the lighter kit and great video MFT offers. Especially when you have to lug it up a mountain or on long shooting days.

Sure, the same can be applied to FF with even better specs but at some point I’ll trade image quality for other features I.e., better sensor stabilization, less weight, more FPS, smaller telephoto, etc..

With all the new full frame cameras (and I do love the S1), I would like to see a big push very soon from the MFT world (mostly Panasonic), because I am remembering why I always like to get the best quality possible in the smallest footprint possible. 

Since they've said over and over again that their full-frame cameras are for photographers and their GH-line for videographers, then Panasonic needs to prove it soon with one of these monster MFT sensors in the GH6 or a dedicated video/cinema camera. 

The GH5's specs are now being matched (almost) from the full-frame and APS-C world. It had a 2-3 year head start and now it's time to give the GH6 another 2-3 year head start from the next round of full-frame cameras. 36 megapixels, internal ND, full V-Log, GH5s low light, GH5 IBIS. Done. 

I have a hard time believing the A7sIII will be able to do everything stated without it overheating and catching fire in your hands. 

 

 

 

[kye]

The future's so bright, I gotta wear shades... ???

[Andrew Reid]

8 hours ago, androidlad said:

Short answer: no it will not, or shall we say, it does not ?

Long answer: Quad Bayer is a cost-effective compromise to boost low light performance by dropping resolution by 4 times. What if I tell you there are more sophisticated technologies to achieve unparalleled low light performance while still maintaining high resolution? We can have designs such as Deep Trench Isolation (DTI), Pyramid Surface Diffractor (PSD) and colour-aware ADC, they address crosstalk, QE and read noise which are key metrics for low light performance.

The beauty of Quad Bayer are the video capabilities and big ass resolution sticker on the box. No need to drop to a maximum of 24 or even 12 megapixel to get a full pixel readout quality 4K readout going.

8K / 48 megapixel stills at same time as 4K in low light to match a 12 megapixel sensor with big fat pixels.

Stacked design makes the readout really fast too.

Sure Sony can do a 48 megapixel sensor with all of what you mentioned, most of it is new to me though, so maybe I am completely out of my depth with things like Pyramid Surface Diffractor... But why, when Quad Bayer works so well?

By the way I get usable ISO 12,800 on the Mi 9 camera... On a phone... In video mode at 4k 60p.... Incredible.

ISO 1600 in video mode looks so clean, it may as well be an A7S II.

[Amazeballs]

Andrew, how about doing some video comparison tests of that wonderful Mi9 camera? With GH5, A73 and others. Oh, and with Iphone Xs Max HDR mode. I dont see any viable tests for now on youtube. 

[kaylee]

19 hours ago, androidlad said:

We can have designs such as Deep Trench Isolation (DTI), Pyramid Surface Diffractor (PSD) and colour-aware ADC, they address crosstalk, QE and read noise which are key metrics for low light performance

can we?

[BTM_Pix]

Deep Trench Isolation sounds like some sort of PTSD from the First World War.

I believe Ebrahim used a Pyramid Surface Diffractor to collect his money from Western Union without ID.

[amateurmike]

Is the stacked Exmor sensor on both the regular Mi 9 and Mi 9 Explorer Edition?  Or just the Explorer Edition?  I just looked at some sample images from the Mi 9, and they don't look any special. 

[Jack Hench]

Sony already has a 4/3 Quad bayer 4k sensor IMX294CJK currently being used in Security cameras  albeit with lower megapixel  count .

https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/products_en/new_pro/may_2017/imx294cjk_e.html

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

I've mentioned in some places (even commenting in one post here in EOSHD, I think) that my dream MFT camera would be one with the GH5s sensor with options to turn on or off the Quad-Bayer (like these 40-48mp smartphones are doing). You would have 40mp stills option to work with good light, 10mp to work with low light, and maybe (don't know if it is possible because of the Quad Bayer arrangement) a 20mp with some kind of interpolation. And for video, the excellent 4k of the GH5s / BMPCC 4k.

Put is on a camera with IBIS, and the deal is done. Maybe is the plan for the GH6. And a GX10 like this (even with a 30min 4l record limit) would sell like hotcakes.

[androidlad]

[SteveP]

I'd love that phone but its a bit of a monster with a 6.4" screen... Huawei are launching their Honor 20 Pro on Tuesday 21st in London. Maybe it could be an alternative...