Sports videography

[BTM_Pix]

2 hours ago, kye said:

My completely uneducated impression was that professional photographers normally had a clause in their contract about being able to use footage for promotional purposes, which is how we get showreels and the like, but I guess if you're employed or have a different contractual arrangement then that might not be the case.  It would be great though

Professional sports events are heavily rights restricted so the use of images is limited strictly to genuine editorial use only.

 

[newfoundmass]

5 hours ago, kye said:

My completely uneducated impression was that professional photographers normally had a clause in their contract about being able to use footage for promotional purposes, which is how we get showreels and the like, but I guess if you're employed or have a different contractual arrangement then that might not be the case.  It would be great though

Cool tripod!  At that height you're well into fake-drone-shot territory

Anything computer based has the potential for less reliability, but I'm guessing it's a cheaper setup?

Back before all the cool music software was available there was a free program called Buzz that provided a virtual studio where everything was modular as it was emulated in software, and anyone could write modules for it.  I was really into it because the next cheapest option for that amount of equipment was probably $20k or something ridiculous.  Anyway, because anyone could write a module for it, some of them had bugs and it would just crash, but when it crashed it would put out full volume white noise straight out of the computer.  Because any sensible person is making a mix at quite a bit lower than that level when it crashed it would be extremely loud and would scare the living cr*p out of you.
I still remember when someone posted a picture of themselves on the forums playing it live in front of a 2000+ person crowd at a New Years event, and I still remember the other people who were just gobsmacked that they would risk such a thing.  With the size and power of a PA like that if it had crashed (which it didn't) it would have caused real damage!

Sports in general are very restrictive. You almost always need permission to use the content. Generally when there is money on the line they don't want you using their content.

Unfortunately after that video came out the price of those technical tripods doubled. ? But they're still significantly cheaper than other options. I love finding out of the box ideas like that though. 

A PC and software set up is kind of cheaper and generally an all in one solution. Since the software can also do more advanced graphics, switch, stream, and record it's appealing to some. 

My preferred set up is a hardware switcher feeding into an external recorder (for a higher quality recording and clean edit) outputting to a PC where you do the graphics, streaming, and program recording. In the event something goes wrong, worse case scenario you've got a high quality clean edit to work with that you can add the graphics to and upload for streaming. You're also taxing the PC significantly less.

With the PC VMix set up we always had something going wrong; the stream would go great but the program recording would have audio sync issues or in the summer the PC itself would overheat, resulting in a myriad of issues. We're not working in world class venues with air conditioning: we're in venues with no/insufficient AC with 500 to 1000 people in sweltering August weather. We'd bring high powered external fans with us and have them blowing on the PC trying to keep it from overheating! ?

In controlled environments, with less intense workloads, I'm sure PC set ups with VMix or OBS are fine. I know that's a set up most live steamers use these days. But when you're producing an actual program, with dozens of animated overlays and lower thirds, etc. I'm just not sold. 

 

3 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Professional sports events are heavily rights restricted so the use of images is limited strictly to genuine editorial use only.

 

Yep. I KINDA get the NBA, NFL, etc doing it since they make insane amounts on TV rights fees, but these small pro sports leagues doing it are kinda silly. But whatever. 

[kye]

6 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

Sports in general are very restrictive. You almost always need permission to use the content. Generally when there is money on the line they don't want you using their content.

Unfortunately after that video came out the price of those technical tripods doubled. ? But they're still significantly cheaper than other options. I love finding out of the box ideas like that though. 

A PC and software set up is kind of cheaper and generally an all in one solution. Since the software can also do more advanced graphics, switch, stream, and record it's appealing to some. 

My preferred set up is a hardware switcher feeding into an external recorder (for a higher quality recording and clean edit) outputting to a PC where you do the graphics, streaming, and program recording. In the event something goes wrong, worse case scenario you've got a high quality clean edit to work with that you can add the graphics to and upload for streaming. You're also taxing the PC significantly less.

With the PC VMix set up we always had something going wrong; the stream would go great but the program recording would have audio sync issues or in the summer the PC itself would overheat, resulting in a myriad of issues. We're not working in world class venues with air conditioning: we're in venues with no/insufficient AC with 500 to 1000 people in sweltering August weather. We'd bring high powered external fans with us and have them blowing on the PC trying to keep it from overheating! ?

In controlled environments, with less intense workloads, I'm sure PC set ups with VMix or OBS are fine. I know that's a set up most live steamers use these days. But when you're producing an actual program, with dozens of animated overlays and lower thirds, etc. I'm just not sold. 

Yep. I KINDA get the NBA, NFL, etc doing it since they make insane amounts on TV rights fees, but these small pro sports leagues doing it are kinda silly. But whatever. 

Interesting about streaming.  I kind of thought that you'd have two scenarios, the first where it was a truly live stream so you'd need the entire pipeline to function without hiccups, and the second where you had time to edit it before uploading it for distribution.  I guess I read 'stream' and thought 'live stream' lol.  I think I agree with you that if it's within the budget, having a hardware switcher and then editing it later on the PC would probably be my go-to as well.  Especially when you're in hostile environments without proper cooling etc.

Sports and money is an interesting topic.  Reminds me of the Last Week Tonight show about stadiums ???

[kye]

In other news, the bull riding footage I shot on the weekend from the city-slickers-visit-the-country-yee-ha trip is falling into place using the new Cut page in Resolve 16.

A few problems:

• I got 'out of sync' where I either double-pressed the shutter or didn't press it, and ended up recording the bits in-between the action and not the action itself
  I blame the mic placement because I didn't have my eye pressed right up to the eyepiece, which means you can't see the edges of the frame and thus the blinking red record light.  I also need to be more careful as I've done that before with other cameras without the same excuse.
  I got the really important shots, and I'm only making a highlights video for fun so I still have plenty of footage, so it's all good, just....  *facepalm*
• I was shooting straight-into a floodlight, so the vintage Minolta 135mm 2.8 flares like an absolute @#$!$#% so my contrast is all shot to hell, and because I was recording in 4k50 8-bit Cine-D I don't have the advantage of the 10-bit to save the day, plus the ISO was probably riding up a bit and it was only 150Mbps too, so the image leaves a little to be desired.  I'll have to work out how heavily I push the image to try and recover a normal amount of contrast.
• The car was really full, so I only took one bag, and due to this restriction I only took two lenses - the 17.5mm f0.95 for people / low-light and the 135mm f2.8 for closeups.  I almost took the Helios 58mm and I really wish I had because the 135mm was a bit too zoomed in to catch the rider and the bull in the same frame.  I partially blame the camera insert I use as it doesn't have many pockets so I might need to look at a new insert or new bag.

Here's a couple of frame grabs just for fun.

The first is out of the flare range and has a bit of contrast added, but the second is unedited and shows the levels and the flare.  The third is the 17.5mm.  They are from my 720p proxy files so don't judge the image quality.

[buggz]

That last shot looks way cool.

[kye]

Couldn't help myself, so I just bought a Sun Zoom 70-210mm f3.8.   I figured that it's probably not too bad, and even if it is it wasn't expensive, so no harm no foul.

I also had a re-think about camera inserts and came up with a new plan for getting more lenses into my bag  

The edit is coming together, despite my comedy of errors in planning, packing, and shooting!

[newfoundmass]

On 5/6/2019 at 6:31 PM, kye said:

Interesting about streaming.  I kind of thought that you'd have two scenarios, the first where it was a truly live stream so you'd need the entire pipeline to function without hiccups, and the second where you had time to edit it before uploading it for distribution.  I guess I read 'stream' and thought 'live stream' lol.  I think I agree with you that if it's within the budget, having a hardware switcher and then editing it later on the PC would probably be my go-to as well.  Especially when you're in hostile environments without proper cooling etc.

Sports and money is an interesting topic.  Reminds me of the Last Week Tonight show about stadiums ???

We did live streaming, we usually only had regular cable internet connections because everything was so low budget/DIY. So there were times when a stream would crap out due to internet issues at the venue. 

I've live streamed a 6 hour wrestling event using a 4G hot spot before! ? Money is in short demand, expectations are high though. I kinda mastered getting the most out of little! 

[kye]

3 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

We did live streaming, we usually only had regular cable internet connections because everything was so low budget/DIY. So there were times when a stream would crap out due to internet issues at the venue. 

I've live streamed a 6 hour wrestling event using a 4G hot spot before! ? Money is in short demand, expectations are high though. I kinda mastered getting the most out of little! 

What's that saying?  "We Have Done So Much with So Little for So Long, that Now We Can Do Anything with Nothing"..  it's from the military apparently, but in the face of having to get the job done under difficult situations with less and less resources without compromising the output, I think there are parallels that can be drawn  

[kye]

I've been playing with the new Speed Warp slow-motion function in Resolve 16 and did a couple of torture tests on some not-well-shot footage from the other weekends rodeo outing.

It's not magical, but it's pretty impressive nonetheless.  It's not a HFR replacement quite yet, but for some situations it might be good enough now.

First video is comparing the new Speed Warp to the best previous available mode:

and this is Speed Warp used on 4k50 footage to simulate 100/200/400 and 800fps:

This is really a torture test for an algorithm like this because the shutter was at about 360degrees, there's heaps of motion blur, there are hard edges in front and behind the items moving, and the footage is noisy and not well focused giving edge detection for objects a really difficult time.  If you shoot an unobscured subject on a defocused background with a high shutter speed I think it might be almost flawless at whatever frame rate you like.

 

I've also made a little bracket to shift the Rode mic forwards so I can get full access to the viewfinder.

Source products (via ebay):

Modified bracket (cut and hole drilled):

Mounted on GH5:

With mic (note that the mic cable is now level with the body):

[buggz]

Has anyone tried the pan/tilt head shown in the CheezyCam video?

Or any other remote controlled pan/tilt/rotate head?

I am actually wanting one now, oh, and of course, the giant monster tripod also...

[BTM_Pix]

1 hour ago, buggz said:

Has anyone tried the pan/tilt head shown in the CheezyCam video?

Or any other remote controlled pan/tilt/rotate head?

I am actually wanting one now, oh, and of course, the giant monster tripod also...

I haven't used that one but I did used to use this one, which is known by a few names (Bescor and Hague being two).

They are available standalone with a wired connector or, like this one, used in conjunction with the Camranger wireless remote and interface which is the version I had.

I used them for behind the goal cameras as they could be remotely moved with a live view back to my main shooting position and files could also be transferred wirelessly back to me instead of having to wait until half/full time to retrieve the images as we aren't allowed to enter the field during play. This setup can also control the camera, which was important in the role I was using it for as the exposure changes during a game with a floor level camera with a very wide angle lens with a lot of sky in the shot can be wide ranging enough (especially in winter games which go from daylight to floodlit) to cause big problems. 

In that role it worked very well although it was for stills so I can't really comment on whether the action is smooth enough for video use but it does have variable speed and it wasn't particularly clunky as far as I remember. There should be enough examples on YouTube though for you to look at as it was pretty popular for what people referred to as aerial photography before drones became popular  

The basic head that you just control from the wired remote is about £120 and goes up to around £400 with the Camranger wireless control/live view set.

 

 

[newfoundmass]

I have the

8 hours ago, buggz said:

Has anyone tried the pan/tilt head shown in the CheezyCam video?

Or any other remote controlled pan/tilt/rotate head?

I am actually wanting one now, oh, and of course, the giant monster tripod also...

I have the Bescor one. It's wonderful when you are in a tight space. I think you can get it now for $100 or so? I recommend getting the longer cable for the remote control! 

[buggz]

Aren't these remote heads really slow?

I've been tring to read up on these...

[newfoundmass]

39 minutes ago, buggz said:

Aren't these remote heads really slow?

I've been tring to read up on these...

You can vary the speed. I imagine more expensive ones can move faster, but mine is fast enough for my use when using DC power. It runs slower on batteries, especially as they get depleted. 

[Grimor]

On 5/11/2019 at 6:24 PM, BTM_Pix said:

I haven't used that one but I did used to use this one, which is known by a few names (Bescor and Hague being two).

They are available standalone with a wired connector or, like this one, used in conjunction with the Camranger wireless remote and interface which is the version I had.

I used them for behind the goal cameras as they could be remotely moved with a live view back to my main shooting position and files could also be transferred wirelessly back to me instead of having to wait until half/full time to retrieve the images as we aren't allowed to enter the field during play. This setup can also control the camera, which was important in the role I was using it for as the exposure changes during a game with a floor level camera with a very wide angle lens with a lot of sky in the shot can be wide ranging enough (especially in winter games which go from daylight to floodlit) to cause big problems. 

In that role it worked very well although it was for stills so I can't really comment on whether the action is smooth enough for video use but it does have variable speed and it wasn't particularly clunky as far as I remember. There should be enough examples on YouTube though for you to look at as it was pretty popular for what people referred to as aerial photography before drones became popular  

The basic head that you just control from the wired remote is about £120 and goes up to around £400 with the Camranger wireless control/live view set.

 

 

I have a Bescor Head too and I made a hack to control it with wii remote and arduino!

I think it can also be controlled throw bluetooth in the same way (with some wireless controller in a electric blue 3d printed box...)

4 hours ago, buggz said:

Aren't these remote heads really slow?

I've been tring to read up on these...

They are slow even in its faster speed.

So probably is better a gimbal (like ziyun crane 2) with tripod legs and wireles remote. 

[Mako Sports]

NFL films - home to the best camera operators in the world ? 

[BTM_Pix]

5 hours ago, Grimor said:

I have a Bescor Head too and I made a hack to control it with wii remote and arduino!

I think it can also be controlled throw bluetooth in the same way (with some wireless controller in a electric blue 3d printed box...)

I finally finished that roll of filament so Black is the new Electric Blue

If you did want to go wireless with your project, Bluetooth might be a bit too short range.

The easiest thing to do would be to use two Arduinos (one with the wiichuck and the other connected to the tripod head) and put one of these HC12 modules on each one.

They are about £4 each and will let you have a wireless serial link between the controller and the head of in excess of 1km as opposed to probably 20-30m of bluetooth.

They are really simple to implement in your code as the library lets you address them exactly as you would a serial port for debugging etc so you should be able to get it up and running in your current sketch really quickly by sending the values from the Arudino with the wiichuck that you would have sent to the controlling pins as data out to the HC12 serial port instead and have the Arduino with the head attached picking them up and actioning them.

Mmmm.....I might even think about making that the 73rd project that I'm simultaneously working on as I've just thought of a way to send camera data to it as well to make a cheap high end PTZ camera.

[Grimor]

I need more time!

Now i'm modding a old super8 projector to make a diy telecine!

I can support only 3 or 4 projects at same time.

[kye]

Went out to shoot this mornings game, new rig (as posted above) and new monopod (one of ebay's cheapest).

I didn't have time to test the rig out before going to the game, and the verdict is....  The head on the new monopod is an example of you-get-what-you-pay-for and overall it's slightly too long, and moving the mic forwards resolved the conflict with my forehead, but not the conflict with the brim of my hat.  DOH!!

New plan is to move the mic to the side to make it hat-compatible, and to modify the monopod to remove the head.

This is my first attempt at putting the mic to the side:

I've disassembled the monopod, but unfortunately the head didn't mount to the body via a 1/4-20 so I'll have to order a 1/4-20 and install one myself.  I figure I'll be using it with the monopod basically vertical anyway as I'll be panning basically the whole time, so I won't need the head.  Watch this space...

[Mako Sports]

Just an update, Sold the Sony Z90 after a solid year and half of use. 

Buying an FS5 in the next few days, will report the differences.