Sports videography

[kye]

13 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

No AF, but what about using a B mount lens on a m4/3 camera. The ENG 2/3" 2x lenses are cheap as heck, and they are All parfocal. You can buy 10,000 Dollar lenses for 200 Dollars. And some of them are 20x. And they have a constant, fast aperture. Well still pretty fast when you consider the doubler. Still under f4.0 The big Box Lenses can go 80x!

The best trick I have found for using long Telephoto lenses for Photography is to use your Video Fluid Head with them. Works amazingly well. I gave up using my Swing Gimbal a long time ago. I can't say a swing gimbal is useless, for certain things I have used it. Nice for just up and down stuff, but..

Did some research, but ruled it out because: they're expensive, I have to stop down (3ccd vs 1 sensor), powered zoom is a hassle, and they're big enough to move other parents from thinking "look at that guys camera" to thinking "what do you think that guy's up to? hmm..."    I already get noticed (some kids were kicking a ball behind us and it came pretty close and the kid who came and picked it up said "sorry camera dude!" which I thought was pretty funny) but there's only so far you can stretch the 'enthusiastic parent' role these days.

[Mako Sports]

13 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

No AF, but what about using a B mount lens on a m4/3 camera. The ENG 2/3" 2x lenses are cheap as heck, and they are All parfocal. You can buy 10,000 Dollar lenses for 200 Dollars. And some of them are 20x. And they have a constant, fast aperture. Well still pretty fast when you consider the doubler. Still under f4.0 The big Box Lenses can go 80x!

The best trick I have found for using long Telephoto lenses for Photography is to use your Video Fluid Head with them. Works amazingly well. I gave up using my Swing Gimbal a long time ago. I can't say a swing gimbal is useless, for certain things I have used it. Nice for just up and down stuff, but..

Thats something im looking into, FS5/FS7 has a center scan mode which is around 16mm. With that I can run a B4 mount adapter and lens. 

[kye]

3 minutes ago, Mako Sports said:

Thats something im looking into, FS5/FS7 has a center scan mode which is around 16mm. With that I can run a B4 mount adapter and lens. 

Please share if you go that direction!  It's probably beyond my level but would be a fascinating setup to see ???

[webrunner5]

8 hours ago, Mako Sports said:

Thats something im looking into, FS5/FS7 has a center scan mode which is around 16mm. With that I can run a B4 mount adapter and lens. 

If you buy a B4 lens with the 2x thingy on them they will cover m4/3 easy. The bummer is it also 2x on the Aperture. But a lot of the B4 lenses are a constant f1.7, especially the Fujinon ones which are way more common. 

For @kye

And not all B4 lenses are huge. if you buy say a 10x one, and take the Zoom controller off of them, which most of the cheap ones you buy have the servo burnt out on them anyways, they are pretty small. And the zoom servo has a switch to let you use them if does work or not on MF. Yeah shooting kids around parents is a huge problem, especially when you get old like me. Crazy world.

As to price I have found Adorama and ebay the cheapest place to buy used B4 lenses. Once in awhile B&H has a few cheap ones. By cheap I mean 200 dollars and less. One of the ones I have only cost 50 dollars, 13x from Adorama the other was 150 dollars, my 19x. neither had the servo that worked but you can buy them for 25 bucks at times. The 19x ends up being around 930mm on a m/43! Where you going to find a 29-900mm parfocal f1.7, f 3.5 in reality with the doubler on, lens for 150 bucks! The doubler doubles the focal length, and with the 2x crop on m4/3 you end up 4x. Talk about reach. And sharp as a tack on both ends. Not handheld mind you lol.

This is a video I did with my 13x, first time I ever used it on my Panasonic AF100. Second time I ever used the camera lol. My rig at the time was pretty terrible compared to now but you can see how much reach, and how sharp they can be When you focus right lol. And the is the lens I paid 50 dollars for!

https://vimeo.com/manage/207977557/general

[Mako Sports]

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

If you buy a B4 lens with the 2x thingy on them they will cover m4/3 easy. The bummer is it also 2x on the Aperture. But a lot of the B4 lenses are a constant f1.7, especially the Fujinon ones which are way more common. 

For @kye

And not all B4 lenses are huge. if you buy say a 10x one, and take the Zoom controller off of them, which most of the cheap ones you buy have the servo burnt out on them anyways, they are pretty small. And the zoom servo has a switch to let you use them if does work or not on MF. Yeah shooting kids around parents is a huge problem, especially when you get old like me. Crazy world.

As to price I have found Adorama and ebay the cheapest place to buy used B4 lenses. Once in awhile B&H has a few cheap ones. By cheap I mean 200 dollars and less. One of the ones I have only cost 50 dollars, 13x from Adorama the other was 150 dollars, my 19x. neither had the servo that worked but you can buy them for 25 bucks at times. The 19x ends up being around 930mm on a m/43! Where you going to find a 29-900mm parfocal f1.7, f 3.5 in reality with the doubler on, lens for 150 bucks! The doubler doubles the focal length, and with the 2x crop on m4/3 you end up 4x. Talk about reach. And sharp as a tack on both ends. Not handheld mind you lol.

This is a video I did with my 13x, first time I ever used it on my Panasonic AF100. Second time I ever used the camera lol. My rig at the time was pretty terrible compared to now but you can see how much reach, and how sharp they can be When you focus right lol. And the is the lens I paid 50 dollars for!

https://vimeo.com/manage/207977557/general

honestly sounds over powered if you ask me lol

[webrunner5]

12 minutes ago, Mako Sports said:

honestly sounds over powered if you ask me lol

well it for sure is not for everyday stuff. It was a pretty huge setup even on my AF100. But the quality of the lenses are beyond belief. They make a Canon L lens look kind of weak. The above picture was my 150 Dollar 19x Fujinon that was used in that video on my G7. This was the 13x on my AF100..

[webrunner5]

Some of these old cameras can flat get the job done. I think  a lot of people think they have to have the latest and greatest. Not necessarily so. A Photo my son took of his dog with my Sony A7s shows what "only" 12mp can do. Even blown up on here it still has a ton of detail. They are a hell of a camera for a bargain price now. And for colors, that grass and that dog, a male Yorkie, is spot on right out of camera. That is probably the Sony FE 16-35mm f4 lens.

[kye]

10 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

If you buy a B4 lens with the 2x thingy on them they will cover m4/3 easy. The bummer is it also 2x on the Aperture. But a lot of the B4 lenses are a constant f1.7, especially the Fujinon ones which are way more common. 

For @kye

And not all B4 lenses are huge. if you buy say a 10x one, and take the Zoom controller off of them, which most of the cheap ones you buy have the servo burnt out on them anyways, they are pretty small. And the zoom servo has a switch to let you use them if does work or not on MF. Yeah shooting kids around parents is a huge problem, especially when you get old like me. Crazy world.

As to price I have found Adorama and ebay the cheapest place to buy used B4 lenses. Once in awhile B&H has a few cheap ones. By cheap I mean 200 dollars and less. One of the ones I have only cost 50 dollars, 13x from Adorama the other was 150 dollars, my 19x. neither had the servo that worked but you can buy them for 25 bucks at times. The 19x ends up being around 930mm on a m/43! Where you going to find a 29-900mm parfocal f1.7, f 3.5 in reality with the doubler on, lens for 150 bucks! The doubler doubles the focal length, and with the 2x crop on m4/3 you end up 4x. Talk about reach. And sharp as a tack on both ends. Not handheld mind you lol.

This is a video I did with my 13x, first time I ever used it on my Panasonic AF100. Second time I ever used the camera lol. My rig at the time was pretty terrible compared to now but you can see how much reach, and how sharp they can be When you focus right lol. And the is the lens I paid 50 dollars for!

https://vimeo.com/manage/207977557/general

So, is the servo attachment just turning a manual zoom ring?  and if I remove the servo then does it become a normal manual zoom lens?  That would be pretty sweet, and although I love vintage lenses, I think I can probably mess up a sharp image to look vintage in post, so I'm open to the idea.  

A f1.7 becomes f3.4 with the doubler, but don't you also have to stop down a stop or two in order to overcome the alignment problem they have because they are tuned for 3CCD sensors?  If I had to do that it would become a f5.6 or f8 zoom, which is considerably less attractive.

Your video won't let me play it saying "Unauthorized".  Is it set to private or something?

 

[webrunner5]

Hmm on the private part, fixed now I think? Sorry about that. Yes to question no. 1. It is just turning a ring that you would normally turn by hand. Most of them have a little "stem", stick sticking out with a knob on it so you can focus with it. The zoom ring the same. All the rings have threaded holes in them for that, even the Macro and Parfocal one..

Question 2. And no you can run these lenses wide open they are they good optically. Most of the lenses you find that are cheap are over 30 to 40 years old, and even then they were 10,000 dollars or more then. You would be talking a 30,000 dollar lenses now. They have incredible optics in them.

They are also Macro lenses, and the have an adjustment ring in the very back to set them to be perfect for Parfocal zooming, which you have to recheck on occasion.. They are a no expense, work of art lens.

Like I stated above, at the time my rig was not good enough to support my whole rig. so there is a lot of wobble and inexperience using it. Only my second try with it, and the camera. The camera was in Cine Like D with a color grade in Resolve. The AF100 is an amazing learning tool for peanuts in this day and age. A Million settings on it. ND's also.

The very first picture above is my 19x lens on the G7. If you consider if you remove the adapter and the lens hood, and in your case the servo, they are not that long, or big of a lens. I am not too sure you can handhold one on a GH5, not at least zoomed out from here to the moon lol. I mean think about a almost perfect 19x zoom. Unimaginable stuff.

 

[newfoundmass]

Might the B4 lens cover the entire M43 censor in ETC mode?

[webrunner5]

50 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

Might the B4 lens cover the entire M43 censor in ETC mode?

Hmm, I must admit I have never tried that?? Not sure you would even need that function when you are talking 8x to 80x zoom lenses! But yeah the punch in would be nice. Interesting question. Not sure they would cover s35mmm at all. I know there is no vignetting in m4/3 with the doubler engaged using 2/3" lenses. You can not use 1/2" ENG lenses at all. You can for say the BMPCC with the 16mm sensor. And not even 2/3" one's without the doubler in them for m4/3. Is the ETC mode full s35 APSC? I would bet they can go a bit further than true m4/3 width wise.

These lenses were designed to be used with a 3, 2/3" sensor block with a prism. One for each color resulting in a 4.4.4.4 signal. Perfect color. If you do the math they are bigger than a m4/3 sensor when you combine them. How much bigger not sure. But a good bit, I now that much.

2/3" ENG cameras are an amazing machine. They aren't a 100 thousand dollars for no reason. They make an Arri look cheap! The whole ENG rig I used 35 to 40 years ago with lens, tripod, fluid head, video light, case was close to 150 thousand dollars back then. And the TV station had 15 of them easy, all Sony, One Sony, Thompson modded, and two techs dedicated to taking care of them. Crazy, crazy money TV stations have to have to put out the news, even now. But the people working there make not a lot of money.

[kye]

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

Hmm on the private part. Yes to question no. 1. It is just turning a ring that you would normally turn by hand. Most of them have a little "stem", stick sticking out with a knob on it so you can focus with it. The zoom ring the same. All the rings have threaded holes in them for that, even the Macro and Parfocal one..

Question 2. And no you can run these lenses wide open they are they good optically. Most of the lenses you find that are cheap are over 30 to 40 years old, and even then they were 10,000 dollars or more then. You would be talking a 30,000 dollar lenses now,They have incredible optics in them.

They are also Macro lenses, and the have an adjustment ring in the very back to set them to be perfect for Parfocal zooming. They are a no expense, work of art lens.

Cool.  I am more and more tempted.  Damn my curiosity!

Interesting about being fine wide open.  It's not what is said elsewhere...  eg https://***URL removed***/forums/post/60459694  The guy sounded knowledgable too.  Or this talk of an optically corrected adapter:  http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?360652-2-3%94-B4-lens-for-GH5&p=1986756211&viewfull=1#post1986756211.  Gotta love the internet! 

It seems like the smart move is to at least get the 2x built-in so you're not paying extra.

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

Hmm, I must admit I have never tried that?? Not sure you would even need that function when you are talking 8x to 80x zoom lenses! But yeah the punch in would be nice. Interesting question.

Depending on the design it might be that they cover the ETC mode, or even full m43 sensor when zoomed in a bit?  Personally I could live without the widest end so that part wouldn't bother me.

@BTM_Pix has played in this space..

What did you do on your GX80 / B4 lens setup?  Was it sharp?  Did it cover the whole sensor?

[Mako Sports]

3 hours ago, kye said:

Cool.  I am more and more tempted.  Damn my curiosity!

 

What did you do on your GX80 / B4 lens setup?  Was it sharp?  Did it cover the whole sensor?

lol when I first looked at the photo I was like "uh wheres the camera" Setup is 98% lens

[kye]

5 minutes ago, Mako Sports said:

lol when I first looked at the photo I was like "uh wheres the camera" Setup is 98% lens

Yeah, I'm right there with you!

[BTM_Pix]

4 minutes ago, Mako Sports said:

lol when I first looked at the photo I was like "uh wheres the camera" Setup is 98% lens

The context to that image is that the lens is actually for my JVC LS300 where it becomes a real ENG setup but as it had the MFT adapter on it then it went on the GX80 for a laugh.

Having said that, when it is on the GX80, it actually handles far better than you'd imagine for handheld shots as you cradle the lens and use the tilt screen to do look down monitoring.

It is far from being the most ridiculous lens I've put on a small MFT camera by the way

Although nothing compares to this fella, who really did set the high watermark for putting B4 lenses on MFT cameras.

 

4 hours ago, kye said:

What did you do on your GX80 / B4 lens setup?  Was it sharp?  Did it cover the whole sensor?

As above, it was just done for a laugh as it was for my LS300 really.

It has a doubler in it so when that is engaged it covers the whole sensor on an MFT camera. As I discussed further on in the thread you quoted, using it with the LS300, the VSM trick of that camera means that you don't have to do that and so avoid losing the light and some sharpness.

[noone]

Somebody put a long lens on a Pentax Q and try it for sports video?   My Q is long dead (I really should throw it out).

[webrunner5]

You Do not need the MTF adapters to use a B4 lens on a camera. I just used a cheap 20 dollar adapter with No glass in it and they work fine. No need to spend all that money at all.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Shop-by-Brand-MTF-Services-Ltd/ci/4/phd/4225042114/N/4294255798

I don't know how many people are on Facebook in the EU but this website has a lot of used goodies to buy. I am pretty sure you have to have a Facebook account to see it?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/654906207954536/

[BTM_Pix]

28 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

You Do not need the MTF adapters to use a B4 lens on a camera. I just used a cheap 20 dollar adapter with No glass in it and they work fine. No need to spend all that money at all.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Shop-by-Brand-MTF-Services-Ltd/ci/4/phd/4225042114/N/4294255798

 

I meant MFT adapter as in Micro Four Thirds. Not MTF as in Money To Fritter

Like I'd spend any real money on a proper adapter when there are perfectly good wobbly ones available off eBay.

[webrunner5]

Yeah but doesn't the MTF ones have a glass element in them? I am not sure that is needed. They were the first company to come out with adapters for B4 lenses back in the day.

I bought mine from some guy in Germany that made them in small batches for like 120 Dollars. It was Very well made with no element in it. It was as tight as a pigs ass on my cameras lol.

[Mako Sports]

59 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Yeah but doesn't the MTF ones have a glass element in them? I am not sure that is needed. They were the first company to come out with adapters for B4 lenses back in the day.

I think the glass element is really a corrective piece for chromatic aberration. As the B4 lenses were never really intended for use a single cmos sensor but a 3 chip ccd array.