Blackmagic price drop by a third on Cinema Camera and active mount mFT camera on the way

[Andrew Reid]

They're from ReWo http://content.rewotechnic.de/?page_id=81

[Kays Alatrakchi]

I think this is a good move for Blackmagic. Shifts negative attention away from the delays, makes them price competitive against Canon/ML hack, and hammers yet another nail in RED's coffin (and Canon's Cinema line of cameras).

 

I can only hope that they are manufacturing these cameras in large quantities because I predict another shortage happening soon. My guess is that right about now, most dealers are getting inundated with new orders.

 

 

I have a question for Andrew....actually two:

 

1. With a mFT mount, would I be able to use PL mount lenses?

 

2. What is the advantage of an active mFT mount? Surely you wouldn't use it for auto focus while shooting....right?

[Andrew Reid]

1. Yes. Look to Hot Rod Cameras or Ceicio 7 on eBay for the adapter

 

2. Active mount has advantage of being compatible with all mFT glass that has electronic aperture control or fly-by-wire manual focus or stabilisation. None of the Lumix or Olympus lenses work on the passive mount. Only SLR Magic and Voigtlander manual stuff without electronic contacts work on it.

[ScreensPro]

1. Yes, with an adapter

 

2. Alot of mFT lenses need power just to set the iris, zoom etc.

[mike_tee_vee]

What a mess.

Agreed.  it smells of desperation.  Almost as messy as the deep price cuts on the Nikon V1. 

[Bruno]

I wonder if the people pissed off because of the price drop would also be pissed off if Canon dropped their C cameras to half the price.

[nathanleebush]

I wonder if the people pissed off because of the price drop would also be pissed off if Canon dropped their C cameras to half the price.

Well, 2/3 price. And I imagine any sucker who had already bought the 1D C or C300 would be!

 

I'm sorry for the butthurt early adopters, and feel their pain, but this is great news for those of us on the fence!

 

I'm torn now. Don't know whether to cancel my Pocket Camera preorder and just go for this. That cam still has advantages, like portability (huge!), Cinema DNG compressed RAW, active mount and the same dynamic range, plus can take super 16mm glass! Either way, at this price point, you can't lose. Maybe I'll just get both, for the price of a BMCC yesterday :)

 

It certainly helps clarify the 5D III vs BMCC equation!

 

Does anyone know what the ideal codec to use with the Cinema Camera in Premiere Pro? Does it handle ProRes as well as Final Cut? I've used BMCC Prores in FCP 7 and it graded beautifully, but I'm wondering if Adobe would lavish it with such attention, given they are pushing Cinema DNG.

[Kays Alatrakchi]

Yes, ProRes works great in Premiere Pro. Cinema DNG can not actually be read in Premiere without 3rd party solutions, and even then it kinda stinks.

[Bruno]

I remember when the MFT mount was first announced, someone from BMD said it was a passive mount that could maybe become active in a future upgrade. Does anyone here have an MFT mount camera? Does it come with the electronic components that would allow for this to be added later on?

[Kays Alatrakchi]

2. Active mount has advantage of being compatible with all mFT glass that has electronic aperture control or fly-by-wire manual focus or stabilisation. None of the Lumix or Olympus lenses work on the passive mount. Only SLR Magic and Voigtlander manual stuff without electronic contacts work on it.

 

 

Hmmm...interesting. In that case I have to wonder if I should stick to EF mount since I own a great deal of electronic Canon glass that it sounds like I wouldn't be able to use with the mFT.

[Andrew Reid]

I wonder if the people pissed off because of the price drop would also be pissed off if Canon dropped their C cameras to half the price.

 

It isn't the same.

 

The situation is that people have waited almost a year for their orders to be delivered, and just after they ARE finally delivered they knock $1000 off the price and they come into regular stock to pick up off the shelves. If you can't appreciate how frustrating that is for some people, then you're a lost cause.

[Bruno]

I can totally appreciate how that sucks for those people, I wouldn't be happy for wasting $1000 just like that if it happened to me, and I always defend that companies should have ways to compensate recent buyers when they do something like this, even if they split the difference, I believe a $500 voucher would have been a good solution in this case.

 

However, regardless of how much this may suck for early adopters, this is indeed a good thing for the industry and the indie community, which in the long run will be a good thing for these same early adopters.

 

So am I still a lost cause? :)

[ntblowz]

With upcoming EF-M43 Speedbooster with electronic contacts (which you have control on EF lens like Iris and focus and IS?) I think active M43 is the way to go, speedbooster with Sigma 18-35mm F1.8 would be 13-25mm F1.2 , all you canon lens will get nice speed bumps and wider POV

 

Tolkina 11-16mm F2.8 would be 8-11mm F2.0!

 

Hmmm...interesting. In that case I have to wonder if I should stick to EF mount since I own a great deal of electronic Canon glass that it sounds like I wouldn't be able to use with the mFT.

[Andrew Reid]

I can totally appreciate how that sucks for those people, I wouldn't be happy for wasting $1000 just like that if it happened to me, and I always defend that companies should have ways to compensate recent buyers when they do something like this, even if they split the difference, I believe a $500 voucher would have been a good solution in this case.

 

However, regardless of how much this may suck for early adopters, this is indeed a good thing for the industry and the indie community, which in the long run will be a good thing for these same early adopters.

 

So am I still a lost cause? :)

 

That's not what I'm picking up on. Good for the industry is another subject. You said people wouldn't be annoyed if Canon dropped their Cinema EOS prices.

 

Why is it these days people are incapable of arguing on the point without throwing in loads of straw men?

 

We need a straw man bonfire!

[tosvus]

I think this is a nice move by BMD. It is normal that prices go down. People who are still in line for cameras will get the new price. It makes a better differentiation between the 4K and 2.5K models. People who bought into BMD to a large degree did so because the pricing was great to begin with, so it is not like they overpaid. (unlike people buying cameras from the  protectionist Still/Video giants (Sony & Canon, I'm looking at you..).

 

<G> who would have thought people would be so negative about a cheap camera getting even cheaper... 

[peederj]

The thing that sticks out for me that has gone unmentioned in the analysis is that Petty for the second year running is blaming an unnamed sensor manufacturer for the delays in shipping his own company's products. Last year, recall, it was "bad sensor glass" at fault. This year they "only got their first batch of sensors last week" and "couldn't complete the software" as a result.

 

Andrew specifically I would think would find that puzzling, as his first article on the 4K sensor being used was over a year ago IIRC, and he followed that up with an article on the factory and staff behind that sensor. Furthermore if BMD had no sensors at all to work on software for, whatsoever did they display at NAB, and then at the LA showcase a couple weeks ago? Did they replace sensor manufacturers entirely and are they going to announce new specs accordingly?

 

No most likely Petty just got on the phone with the sensor company and agreed to not name them and possibly some other concessions if they would quietly take the blame for BMD's failures in finding good and fast firmware programmers for the cameras and materials they already have piled up on the shelves around the office. And not wanting to undercut their customer they conceded to it. It will take a disgruntled employee or something to find out what's really going on in there...if anyone still cares by that point.

 

I'm sure they'll have an active MFT version of the cinderblock and it will be this same price. I think getting the full version of Resolve and then selling the cinderblock mint may be a good choice for budding colorists. They want to flush out inventory as the ML RAW has stolen their thunder. And yeah it sucks for the early adopters but some of us have been warning you!

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

I imagine the price drop will be for cameras already made so they can phase them out....and then we'll be back to status quo of waiting for a new camera to arrive. Ha. It's difficult to imagine a scenario where they don't have customers trapped waiting for a camera to arrive. I'm only partially joking. They want to innovate and be talked about more than they want to make sound business decisions it seems.

If digital bolex cam get their camera ready and have it perfected and ready to deliver on demand I think they will redeem themselves nicely. In comparison they seem to be handling the situation better, save for a few snide comments.

[Ernesto Mantaras]

With upcoming EF-M43 Speedbooster with electronic contacts (which you have control on EF lens like Iris and focus and IS?) I think active M43 is the way to go, speedbooster with Sigma 18-35mm F1.8 would be 13-25mm F1.2 , all you canon lens will get nice speed bumps and wider POV

 

Tolkina 11-16mm F2.8 would be 8-11mm F2.0!

 

In that regard I'm thinking of getting the Nikon mount Sigma and using the Nikon Speed Booster which has an aperture ring.
I like to change aperture that way anyways. It's a good alternative.

Now, I wonder if there are any issues related with using the aperture ring on this particular adapter or in any adapter of this kind (with integrated aperture ring). Does any of you know?

[peederj]

Won't the Speed booster vignette crop lenses? I guess the BMD sensors are so tiny it's a non-issue.

 

Maximum output aperture on a speed booster is 0.9. They make the centers sharper but can reduce sharpness toward the edges.

[zephyrnoid]

SO there it is....
Can't deliver on time or in enough quantity so you stoke the fire with a 30% discount even before shipping in quantity. The discount creates a narrower divide between the lines increasing buyer confusion and dilemma.
Yikes!

"The price drop is, shall we say, brave.

It risks infuriating the installed user base, especially those who have waited months for a camera only to receive one a short time before a price drop of $1000."Apple has been famously doing that with iPads recently

 

(This all plays in to my theory that PREPAYS are hidden R&D and Production Subsidies not a guarantee of a value added investment AT ALL )

This guy has it nailed....

 

One last point. DO YOU REALLY TRUST Black Magic as an enterprise now?  ;) So who wants to bet they'll either be bought out or go belly up  in the camera division? Then you'll be holding a $2,000 doorstop or book-end in three years .

 

I just want them to switch sensors to Super 35 or DX. APS-C so I can get the DOF I want. :)

 

Roll eyes....