Blackmagic price drop by a third on Cinema Camera and active mount mFT camera on the way

[Kays Alatrakchi]

If Blackmagic said that they would deliver raw to the Pocket camera, I don't see the point in not believing it. My guess is that rather than heat, the problem is data wrangling and somehow squeezing it unto the SD card without any dropped frames and with audio. I'm confident they'll get there, but they probably will need to deal with some firmware optimization and possibly wait until SD card technology gets a bit faster.

[Bruno]

I understand people being upset with the delays, but saying the camera can't do what it says in the box is another thing, that would be quite serious, and most would probably just get a refund, I don't see them trying to sneak that one without a big explanation.

SD cards speed is not a problem with 1080p 2:1 compressed raw.
They'd need roughly 50mbps, latest toshiba cards can do 240!

[tosvus]

Oh sh*t, this will be the end of Digital Bolex ;)

Was thinking the same thing.. certainly a problem though I think digitalbolex is a bit more for nostalgic runandgunners. I think they will still be the cheapest global shutter cam though.

[tosvus]

According to Grant's e-mail the Pocket cameras are shipping, surely you could wait a couple days for the first reviews before assuming it can't do what's on the specs list. Could even save the non believers some embarrassment.

Hey, much more fun to be negative knowitalls, you know!

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

Make no mistake, I am very excited about the Pocket Cam. I'm happy I sold my GH3 before the price drop. I just hope it arrives before my wedding in October. 

 

To the point earlier that maybe they are trying to lower their profit margin per camera by producing the cameras in large volumes...yes, please.

[Jon de Zwaan]

It's really fun to read all of peederj's frustrated comments. Dear sir, who are you trying to convince? Are you trying to justify your $$$ 8bit purchase, while everyone else gets raw (eventually) for a couple of bucks.

You're spending way too much time on preaching and defending your beloved Canon C$$$ and posting about Blackmagic's small mistakes. Even Andrew's side by side raw-8bit comparison didn't hold you back. We all know the situation BMD is currently in, but eventually everyone will profit from their market strategy.

[HurtinMinorKey]

Why the hell is this thread so busy today? Shouldn't we all be out shooting/editing?

[zephyrnoid]

[quote name="Kays Alatrakchi" post="39858" timestamp="1375552217"
 
It's not as if Blackmagic products need to "call home" every few days because otherwise they'll stop working...that actually would be Adobe products![/quote]
The one subject that no never hear about is the one of forced end of life due to bankruptcy or product discontinuation due to forced obsolescence.
Cases:
Silicon graphics
Flip video
Kodak
Apple fc,
Adobe cs
These are not cars, they are expendable electronics.

[tosvus]

First of all, ridiculous speculations about a company going out of business when all indications point the other way:
They can't produce cameras fast enough = big demand
They clearly stated they were able to lower price due to better cost structures
People who use the cameras seem to love them.

Secondly, cameras like other electronics works fine regardless of the status of the manufacturer.

[peederj]

It's really fun to read all of peederj's frustrated comments. Dear sir, who are you trying to convince? Are you trying to justify your $$$ 8bit purchase, while everyone else gets raw (eventually) for a couple of bucks.

You're spending way too much time on preaching and defending your beloved Canon C$$$ and posting about Blackmagic's small mistakes. Even Andrew's side by side raw-8bit comparison didn't hold you back. We all know the situation BMD is currently in, but eventually everyone will profit from their market strategy.

 

I'm glad you're having fun as entertainment is the point.

 

I'm having fun too, and far less frustrated as I actually use a camera system that's mature and designed for making movies.

 

Andrew, like myself, is a "negative knowitall," and the only major filmmaking blogger willing to give a camera manufacturer a fat lip. He's too loose a cannon to co-opt, and calls 'em as he sees'em, and that's an invaluable and refreshing resource as the rest of the major bloggers are timid little churchmice hoping to get advertising/demo video money and choice exclusive breaking news if they're not already firmly on the corporate teat.

 

But the general sentiment here, while badboy and a lot better than most of the other fora, is still a bit clueless and stuck in 2010. I.e. DSLRs, which is OK and e.g. ML RAW certainly gave them a boost as the GH2 hack did when it came out. The BMD cams are a step back...you have the size and weight of a big camera (heavier even than the C300...same weight as the C500! And then add a battery somewhere else!) but none of the ergonomic advantages. Tiny sensor with moire, an artifact Andrew has viciously lambasted Canon about for years but only mumbles about over BMD. BMD is given a pass time and again with the only complaint being order fulfillment...isn't that odd? (The C100 shipped on schedule, and I got mine the day after without even preordering. But we're only supposed to be negative about the C100 here?)

 

The question people should be asking is why is there such rabid support of BMD when everything they've done is way worse in multiple (though OK not all) dimensions vs. what every other major manufacturer has done? Shouldn't there be a bit of reality in the mix of discussion here? Shouldn't we be defending each other from unfortunate wastes of money? What better reason for a gear discussion forum?

 

If all you are left with is ad hominem and various forms of "shut up!" then why not just let it go? I don't attack anyone personally who isn't interest-conflicted (and once again I myself have no conflicts of interest), nor do I try to shut them up. You are all welcome to speak and yes I am happy to correct you.  :wub:

[/p/]

I'm having fun too, and far less frustrated as I actually use a camera system that's mature and designed for making movies.

 

>Talking about a C100

 

[Kays Alatrakchi]

The question people should be asking is why is there such rabid support of BMD when everything they've done is way worse in multiple (though OK not all) dimensions vs. what every other major manufacturer has done? Shouldn't there be a bit of reality in the mix of discussion here? Shouldn't we be defending each other from unfortunate wastes of money? What better reason for a gear discussion forum?

 

I think the price point should be taken into consideration here (even before the discount). Look, the situation is pretty clear -- shooters' expectations about gear have been rising, Canon instead of delivering a true improvement over the mighty 5D2 put out an overpriced 5D2.5 which had everyone besides the most ardent Canon fans pretty disappointed. Then came their Cinema line which left everyone even more baffled with pricing that was far more than the 5D crowd was willing to fork over (without the benefits of RED's extra bells and whistles). Red  meanwhile failed on their promised 3K for $3k and continued their trend toward pricey and proprietary gear.

 

I think Blackmagic was the only company to truly understand the costumer base that made the 5D2 so popular and delivered a camera which addressed many (but not all) of the wishes of that crowd --- namely better image quality, higher resolution, better interfacing and more robust post friendly codecs in a DSLR pricing. Did they deliver on everything? Of course not, but I think most people are willing to cut them more than a little slack.

[peederj]

That collage took some work. (And then you went and cut it down!)

 

I think the price point should be taken into consideration here (even before the discount). Look, the situation is pretty clear -- shooters' expectations about gear have been rising, Canon instead of delivering a true improvement over the mighty 5D2 put out an overpriced 5D2.5 which had everyone besides the most ardent Canon fans pretty disappointed. Then came their Cinema line which left everyone even more baffled with pricing that was far more than the 5D crowd was willing to fork over (without the benefits of RED's extra bells and whistles). Red  meanwhile failed on their promised 3K for $3k and continued their trend toward pricey and proprietary gear.

 

I think Blackmagic was the only company to truly understand the costumer base that made the 5D2 so popular and delivered a camera which addressed many (but not all) of the wishes of that crowd --- namely better image quality, higher resolution, better interfacing and more robust post friendly codecs in a DSLR pricing. Did they deliver on everything? Of course not, but I think most people are willing to cut them more than a little slack.

 

I addressed this in the recent strategy thread. Why aren't the "DSLR shooters" willing to fork over $5500 for a nearly-complete camera that saves you from buying endless add-ons? ND/IR filters, XLR preamps and built-in stereo mics, top and side handles, EVFs (OK but it's usable in a pinch) and articulated LCDs, EF mount adapters (assuming people have some of the 100 Million EF lenses extant), peaking, zebra and waveform monitors with audio level metering, one-touch custom white balance, log gamma, usable ISO 6400 and 20,000 with post NR to save on lighting, cheap compact commodity media and replaceable batteries that last all day without offloads or recharges,... how many things have I overlooked that the C100 offers included in the tin? How much does all that cost to duplicate (in an awkward manner) for your "cheaper" solution?

 

Why am I one of the only people willing to point this out?

 

Oh right, because everyone else who realizes this is out shooting and no longer thinking about cameras. Come to think of it I'm late getting the shot list out.

[/p/]

That collage took some work. (And then you went and cut it down!)

 

 

I addressed this in the recent strategy thread. Why aren't the "DSLR shooters" willing to fork over $5500 for a nearly-complete camera that saves you from buying endless add-ons? ND/IR filters, XLR preamps and built-in stereo mics, top and side handles, EVFs (OK but it's usable in a pinch) and articulated LCDs, EF mount adapters (assuming people have some of the 100 Million EF lenses extant), peaking, zebra and waveform monitors with audio level metering, one-touch custom white balance, log gamma, usable ISO 6400 and 20,000 with post NR to save on lighting, cheap compact commodity media and replaceable batteries that last all day without offloads or recharges,... how many things have I overlooked that the C100 offers included in the tin? How much does all that cost to duplicate (in an awkward manner) for your "cheaper" solution?

 

Why am I one of the only people willing to point this out?

 

Oh right, because everyone else who realizes this is out shooting and no longer thinking about cameras. Come to think of it I'm late getting the shot list out.

 

You forgot about the file format of a camcorder

[tosvus]

Peederj, it is pretty weak to simply say that anyone who wants to shoot good video has to be willing to spend 5K+. Pretty elitist if you ask me. By all means, feel that way but frankly you have no business criticizing products that are so far beneath you.

BMD is clearly aiming at a different market, with different price expectations and a willingness to forgive some compromises.

I do not understand the level of effort you put into this little crusade of yours. Go shoot some nice movies with whatever equipment you prefer. It doesn't sound like you have ever touched a Bmd cam, or ever will, so your opinion is quite frankly irrelevant and of zero interest.

[hmcindie]

I'm gonna have to agree with Peederj. Yes, it is elitist but usually the elitists are actually working and the ... other guys aren't. BMD has moire and aliasing. Why isn't it being bashed? Why even the question "Does BMD have moire?" is being skipped over? It can look absolutely horrible (as anyone with a 7d/60d should know).

 

So Blackmagic are given a pass because they are not aimining for elitists? Well what in the f? Is this just some kind off odd "my car is bigger than your car"- competition instead of actually using these things as tools? Apparently.

[peederj]

I see the RED camera as the elitist camera...the one ambitious amateurs buy trying to buy themselves credibility. I see the C100/C300 and FS700 as the practical personal cameras for people that shoot enough to not want to hassle with rentals. I see the Alexa, F5/F55, C500 and Phantom as rental cameras for productions with a budget (and OK RED can fit in that crowd too, but as rental, not purchase). I see the 5D3 as the dual use high-end camera, the D800 and D7100 as good options for that too. I see the Rebels and little Panasonics as learning cameras. I see the RX100 as the fun pocket movie camera and the GoPro Hero 3 black as the go-anywhere rugged camera.

 

I see the BMD products as weird experimental prototypes for the hacker/tinkerer set. People who are more interested in equipment for its own sake than filmmaking. Which is fine, and you can praise it irrationally if you want. But then to go bashing cameras that actually put food on people's tables in comparison? It's not a matter of elitism so much as it's the nerve of hobbyists telling working people they're doing it wrong.

[/p/]

I see the RED camera as the elitist camera...the one ambitious amateurs buy trying to buy themselves credibility. I see the C100/C300 and FS700 as the practical personal cameras for people that shoot enough to not want to hassle with rentals. I see the Alexa, F5/F55, C500 and Phantom as rental cameras for productions with a budget (and OK RED can fit in that crowd too, but as rental, not purchase). I see the 5D3 as the dual use high-end camera, the D800 and D7100 as good options for that too. I see the Rebels and little Panasonics as learning cameras. I see the RX100 as the fun pocket movie camera and the GoPro Hero 3 black as the go-anywhere rugged camera.

 

I see the BMD products as weird experimental prototypes for the hacker/tinkerer set. People who are more interested in equipment for its own sake than filmmaking. Which is fine, and you can praise it irrationally if you want. But then to go bashing cameras that actually put food on people's tables in comparison? It's not a matter of elitism so much as it's the nerve of hobbyists telling working people they're doing it wrong.

 

You have to be the biggest moron on this forum.

 

>peederj's face when every BMD thread

 

[Will Turner]

Nobody should be angry. Early adopters of new tech always pay through the nose. 4k tvs for 50 grand comes to mind...

[Andrew Reid]

Too much trolling in this thread.

 

You have one guy who mentions his C100 love relationship in EVERY POST on this forum.

 

You have another saying ridiculous libellous things about BMD going out of business.

 

If you can't improve the quality of contributions, then I will relieve you of posting duties and raise the average post quality two full notches for the rest of us.