Blackmagic price drop by a third on Cinema Camera and active mount mFT camera on the way

[tosvus]

I'm gonna have to agree with Peederj. Yes, it is elitist but usually the elitists are actually working and the ... other guys aren't. BMD has moire and aliasing. Why isn't it being bashed? Why even the question "Does BMD have moire?" is being skipped over? It can look absolutely horrible (as anyone with a 7d/60d should know).
 
So Blackmagic are given a pass because they are not aimining for elitists? Well what in the f? Is this just some kind off odd "my car is bigger than your car"- competition instead of actually using these things as tools? Apparently.

For you and peederj, I don't see anyone bashing other cameras. You go into a Ford Mustang thread and tell people Mustangs suck. If you can't afford a Ferrari, you might as well just ride a bike. The cameras mentioned are great, but I think it is a sad attitude that unless you make a lot of money you should not hope for good quality cameras. Does BMD have the best sensors, no, but the full package is clearly appealing to many of us.

Anyway some of you seem to think that weell paying commercial jobs is more important than producing something creative on a shoe-string budget. I know which crowd I would rather associate with.

[Andrew Reid]

Anyway some of you seem to think that weell paying commercial jobs is more important than producing something creative on a shoe-string budget. I know which crowd I would rather associate with.

 

You can be creative on a paying job as well, but yeah - the creative filmmaking community for too long has been held hostage by the pro video community and their needs always get taken more seriously, because they make the most money.

 

EOSHD seeks to associate itself more with the creative producers on a shoe-string budget than with the pro video community and their industry tools.

 

I suggest both sides stop viewing each other with distain, realise their differences, and stops trying to ram one's own needs down each others throats, C100-luvva man especially.

[Hans Punk]

Mac vs PC debate has shifted to cameras....pathetic.

Assuming you have the luxery, pick the right tool for the job/ budget and don't bank all of your pennies on companies offering the moon on a stick, with a dubious delivery history. It was not too long ago that manufacturers announced cameras after they were stacked in warehouses, ready to be shipped. Now people are announcing cameras after a quick CAD design and a handshake promise from a chip supplier. It seems that the recent disappointment with large (or small) companies are due to them being way too optimistic about every link in the real world manufacturing chain and too carried away with customer excitement for a product.

Give me a boring company that only announces when its products are ready, but listen to the right people for the target they are trying to hit.

Of course people are entitled to be mad at them if you we're an early adopter/preorder customer...but only so much these days (after multiple broken RED and BMD delivery/spec promises)....we have been here before.

It is a bit like expecting money back from a gambling addict....they will tell you every optimistic tale about how they will deliver your goods, meanwhile their car is being towed away behind them.

[tosvus]

Mac vs pc debate is pathetic and then you commence to stoke the fire?

My Opinion is simply that we all should choose the tools that fit our use and budget the best.

I Buy equipment on my own dime, mainly to make material for the church I belong to. A camera like the bmcc will work great and I can't afford a fs700, alexa, Red, etc anyway.

[Bruno]

Andrew, since you own both the BMCC and the 5D3, it would be nice to know what you think their place is when compared to each other.
Assuming you need a hard drive and a battery pack for the BMCC, they're kind of close in price, so what are the advantages and disadvantages you see on these two affordable raw shooting cameras? When would you choose one and when would you choose the other?

[tosvus]

Andrew, since you own both the BMCC and the 5D3, it would be nice to know what you think their place is when compared to each other.
Assuming you need a hard drive and a battery pack for the BMCC, they're kind of close in price, so what are the advantages and disadvantages you see on these two affordable raw shooting cameras? When would you choose one and when would you choose the other?

Yes that would be interesting. AFAIK when shoting Raw on the 5d there is no audio (correct me if I'm wrong!) So calculate in cost of external audio recorder and added steps in work flow. Bmcc doesnt have xlr but it does have balanced inputs so pretty easy to hook up good mic.

I Expect a fast memory card for raw is pretty comparable to a ssd drive

[Kays Alatrakchi]

how many things have I overlooked that the C100 offers included in the tin? How much does all that cost to duplicate (in an awkward manner) for your "cheaper" solution?

 

The C100? You're joking right? There is virtually no improvement in image quality between the C100 and a T2i, still prone to moire, still prone to rolling shutter, still same old crappy 4:2:0 h.264 codec.

 

At least Blackmagic offered a vast improvement in IQ despite the smaller sensor.

 

I think the only camera of note that Canon put out for video is the 1Dc, which if you ask me is what the 5D3 should have been (sans the $12k price tag).

 

Of all the things you mention, you forget that many of us prefer to customize our rigs with handpicked components that can be moved from camera to camera if necessary.

[Kays Alatrakchi]

I Expect a fast memory card for raw is pretty comparable to a ssd drive

 

Actually Gb for Gb an SSD is a far better deal. You can get an 120Gb SSD which meets the spec requirements for about $100 nowadays, a CF card with fast enough specs to handle the Canon raw is going to be at least twice that amount if not more.

[Andrew Reid]

Just arm yourself with the facts and knowledge, then choose the camera that suits best what you want to do with it.

 

The C100 is in a totally different price bracket to a DSLR.

 

I'd rather invest the difference in lenses.

 

The brickbats are becoming tiresome.

[HurtinMinorKey]

Moire really isn't that big of an issue on the BMCC if you properly downsample from 2.5K to 1080.  Most of the people showing off terrible moire on it are either doing it intentionally or don't know what they are doing in post. It might be a bit worse than the 5D3raw for moire, but it's way better than the 5D2, and in no way debilitating. That being said, the c100-c300 are in a different class for combating moire and rolling shutter than the rest of the cameras mentioned. 

 

i'm still surprised at all the vitriol in this thread. All these cameras have their place. None of them strictly dominate any of the others when you consider price and feature set, so i'm sure everyone has a good reason to own the tools that they do.

[hmcindie]

It might be a bit worse than the 5D3raw for moire, but it's way better than the 5D2, and in no way debilitating.

 

I haven't used BMC myself yet but it's very difficult to get an honest representation about the moire issue (and others) because people tend to skip over them. I've seen videos of the BMC that have had quite a lot of moire/aliasing. For example, immediately the first shot here (the whole pebble road is moired/aliased, just like first gen Canons.

 

https://vimeo.com/66170436

[HurtinMinorKey]

I haven't used BMC myself yet but it's very difficult to get an honest representation about the moire issue (and others) because people tend to skip over them. I've seen videos of the BMC that have had quite a lot of moire/aliasing. For example, immediately the first shot here (the whole pebble road is moired/aliased, just like first gen Canons.

 

https://vimeo.com/66170436

 

I'm pretty sure that example is contrived because it is comparing 1080 from the 5D to  2.5K scaled (not properly down sampled) to 1080 from the BMCC (which of course will show worse moire). I think i'll go shoot some pebbles and show you that this video is BS, because everyone cites it all the time and it's very misleading.

 

But this is not surprising, since It's really just an advertisement for the 5D3, read the comments below the video:

 

"If you buy a Canon 5D mark III, please get it HERE: goo.com/NoCredibility to reward our efforts"

 

It also purports to show that the 5D has better DR, which contradicts their specifications, my personal experience, and almost all the footage i've seen on the interwebs. 

[peederj]

Well I hope everyone is creatively fulfilled. And my recommendation for that is...drumroll please...

 

Shoot with what you have. Quit buying stuff. Borrow or rent as needed.

 

I think if you're a creative genius but under-equipped people will see through the limits of your equipment and solve those problems for you.

 

It doesn't matter if you're poor...it does matter if you have no talent or can't bring yourself to use and develop what you have. If you are suffering from Gear Acquisition Syndrome you will never, I promise, never be satisfied enough with your equipment to decide now you are finally ready to be seen and judged.

 

Go ahead and be seen and judged with whatever's at hand. Get used to it. Thicken that skin. See how lame you are...not your camera, but you as a creative artist...and fix that. The camera is the easiest thing to fix. Your mental blocks and your inexperience making art are the things that need to be fixed.

 

If someone came to me and said they want to be a filmmaker I would hand them an RX100 with a small pistol grip and a removable ND filter and tell them to go out and make something. Go ahead and use the auto everything mode if they want. Or they could use an iPhone and a $13 collapsible 5-color reflector. And by stripping away all other concerns they would be trained to focus on what matters in art, and be able to do the maximum number of iterations per year creating things, because they weren't wasting time transcoding crap in Resolve.

 

No one in the audience cares about your camera. Boo hoo. Fellow camera enthusiasts are not a meaningful audience. Pick something easy and use it. A lot.

[zephyrnoid]

I do see the bmpcc as a replacement for my tired old Flip Mino HD :-)

[/p/]

Let's see if all the happy sounding punters come back in 12 months on the forum when they still don't have a camera. Then we will see how they really feel.

 

I am not sure if you were referring to the BMCC or not.. But anyway, I ordered my MFT BMCC today, it's in stock I pick it up on Friday.

[wombl]

Finally I got my BMCC with MFT mount! At last. After just half a year of waiting.
Was it worth the hassle? I think so. Shot a lot of blue hour stuff getting used to the camera - after a quick review image quality seems to be outstanding, as I did hope and expect.
Here's a hint for MFT users: Get a Novoflex adaptor for your APS-C lenses and larger, pick a model with integrated aperture ring. That way many lenses without aperture ring become fully usable manually operated lenses (applies to some bayonet types only, e.g. Pentax).

I have been able to test 5D3 raw before. Image quality is very good as well, apart from some strange aliasing problems I cannot really explain and track down.
The biggest difference between 5D3 raw and BMCC is - in my opinion - handling. Yes, the BMCC is a rather heavy brick, still I manage to work really fast with it. Much faster than with the experimental ML hack, I would even say intuitive.
So I cannot confirm any handling problems with the BMCC so far.

Waiting that long has been a really uneasy experience, a ridiculous marketing game, one of the worst I ever experienced in terms of affordable tools for my work. But it seems the praise for BMCC's image quality is no fanboy exaggeration.

Upcoming projects will reveal the camera's workhorse qualities and overall stability. Right now I'm very optimistic.

[Andrew Reid]

Shoot with what you have. Quit buying stuff. Borrow or rent as needed.

 

It doesn't matter if you're poor...it does matter if you have no talent or can't bring yourself to use and develop what you have. If you are suffering from Gear Acquisition Syndrome you will never, I promise, never be satisfied enough with your equipment to decide now you are finally ready to be seen and judged.

 

No one in the audience cares about your camera. Boo hoo. Fellow camera enthusiasts are not a meaningful audience. Pick something easy and use it. A lot.

 

Ah the Pro Video Man On A Job speaks.

 

Zzzz. Heard it all before.

 

Suffering from 'gear acquisition syndrome' has nothing to do with lacking talent and finding solace in the acquisition of gear. There's nothing wrong with being a gear-head, in fact it is better that one takes a keen interest in the tools than a passing glance at the rental shop. Kubrick got his hands dirty. Gear can separate you from the crowd, which is why he used the F0.7 lenses supplied by Zeiss. It was a creative choice, which enabled him to shoot in such low natural light, nobody else had done the same. He experimented with different technology a great deal, like we're doing on this forum... Well... Most of us.

 

It DOES matter if you are poor. Renting won't help you if you are poor. No point renting an expensive piece of shit and equally no point renting a cheap piece of shit when you may as well spend the same and buy the damned thing.

 

It does matter if you have no talent. No amount of practice and development will help.

[Andrew Reid]

If someone came to me and said they want to be a filmmaker I would hand them an RX100 with a small pistol grip and a removable ND filter and tell them to go out and make something. Go ahead and use the auto everything mode if they want. Or they could use an iPhone and a $13 collapsible 5-color reflector. And by stripping away all other concerns they would be trained to focus on what matters in art, and be able to do the maximum number of iterations per year creating things, because they weren't wasting time transcoding crap in Resolve.

 

No one in the audience cares about your camera. Boo hoo. Fellow camera enthusiasts are not a meaningful audience. Pick something easy and use it. A lot.

 

Peederj, you are so out of step with what the EOSHD community is about. It's trolling, pure and simple.

 

You shoot with a C100, yet you'd tell a beginner to go off with a piece of shit like an iPhone and shoot. It strikes me as rather condescending.

 

Why are you here?

 

Resolve, raw, lenses, large sensors are all critical learning tools for any cinematographer, and most filmmakers. There are filmmakers who don't care about the camera, and that's why they need a good DP because left to their own devices everything would look like crap and have no mood.

[peederj]

I'm here Andrew because I think someone needs to put forward this point of view. Not because it's correct in all cases. But the opposite of isn't correct in all cases either. And I believe most cases.

 

I want to see something substantial from you Andrew. At least a 30 minute short or something, where you have primary responsibility as both director and DP. I haven't reviewed your history at all but I've read this site for over a year and I imagine you'd refer to something if you had done it. With that hindsight I do think you'd amplify rather than be allergic to my comments. I think you'd survive the experience. And your blog would be better off for it, as you'd see what your readership is really struggling with as opposed to helping them join you in constantly putting off judgment day for your art by focusing on preparing some arbitrarily interchangeable part.

[HurtinMinorKey]

I think peederj is silly and ignorant, but i wouldn't call him a troll. Tactless, yes. Troll? No.