Huawei P30 Pro may be the last, as Google suspends business with Chinese smartphone manufacturer

[Kisaha]

33 minutes ago, DBounce said:

@Kisaha when it comes to dealing with China remember Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 48...  The bigger the smile, the sharper the knife.

So many here are quick to side with China, believing them over western intelligence agencies. I’m not saying that the west is perfect... but at least for most here they are the home team.

This is one of my favorite rules!

I watched recently "An Elephant sitting still". The director Hu Bo commited suicide before the end of the editing. The 

There are huge issues in Chinese society, but in U.S also. I dare to say that I like the EU's position in the world right now, I am not sure if it is viable, but it is the most reasonable.

If I had to choose sides, I would go with the Western World 100%, but living in Greece, the meeting point of East vs West since the Bronze Age, and probably earlier, I know that you can not stop the flow.

I have to admit though that there is a certain eastern-o-phobia in America (always was) and this is very apparent in the last episode of GoT. The Easterners are savages and dangerous, and they have to go back in their territories!

[DPC]

Just a small comment on the Huawei / Leica thing : I have a P20 Pro and the 40 mpx raw files can be wonderful but you need to do absolutely massive post production work to eliminate the severe vignetting and color casts from the "Leica" lens. 

 

[Yurolov]

12 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

I am sure these US bluechip companies are thrilled at the empty order book thanks to Donald Tit.

Intel for example is set to lose potentially billions of dollars over next few years in lost Chinese orders.

That Trump has so many people believing in his business skills is a neat trick. Unravelling the entire US economy is his other lesser known neat trick and this is the start of it.

Huawei can afford to lose Qualcomm as can other companies. Snapdragon is replaced by Kirin 980 already in the P30 Pro and many other handsets and I can personally vouch for how fast it is. However, if the Chinese wanted to withdraw a few services.... Let's say "manufacturing"... Where does that leave important US tech giants like Apple and Google? What if Foxconn closed the order books on those companies? And on RED?

A trade war is like any other war. Nobody wins

It isn't just about the trade war; it is about the stealing of intellectual property for the purpose of out-competing american companies. In the short term Intel may suffer but in the long term it will be beneficial for them to have a level playing field. Huawei is state-sponsored. Its technology piggy-backs off american innovation. The americans invested in the tech at considerable expense. It is easy for the chinese to offer items cheaper when you don't have to pay for the r&d. 

To say that Foxconn would close its books is unrealistic. For one, it would take a massive hit to its revenue; it would have to sack an untold number of people; and other international companies would also pull out for fear of the same thing happening to them. In fact, China has little leverage because it is so reliant on the american consumer to purchase its goods and to provide its citizens with employment in manufacturing. 

The biggest detriment to tech innovation is IP theft. If their has to be some short term pain then it is warranted if the playing field is leveled; the americans can withstand it much better than the chinese. You see it time and again with innovative american startups going bankrupt because there is a cheaper chinese alternative that copies their tech. So yea, I would say that a stand needs to be taken. 

[Emanuel]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-huawei-tech-alphabet-exclusive/exclusive-google-suspends-some-business-with-huawei-after-trump-blacklist-source-idUSKCN1SP0NB

 

[anonim]

5 hours ago, Yurolov said:

It isn't just about the trade war; it is about the stealing of intellectual property for the purpose of out-competing american companies.

Problem is that before stealing of intellectual property was/is some other sort of harder, more brutal, fatal/letal and constant  (nature- and human-) resource stealing/abusing through period of time, on which base so-call (technical) intellectual property arose. Besides that, when calling out "intellectual" property there's one uber-aspect of it that is more important and that constantly lacks in repeated history circumstances: how to deal properly with other humans and nations with whom we are blessed or condemned to live with. What if at the end we will be forced to face with true that much higher "intellectual" property was/is also capability to protect resources on planet, to wisely accommodate our needs and wishes to nature and right of other people to have at least part of our commodity we have just because we are born at one place, not at another?

 If USA policy and consumers mass-ideology (as model and last global leader just because of circumstances of WWI and WWII) not being stopped  with their global usage of "intellectual" property course, planet would be ruined very soon (first of all because of monstrous hypocrisy greed and its consequences). Now it's a matter of balance and we have witnesses of another turning point in history. After all, at meta-plane all of this is just demonstration how true is yin-yang concept ... and all powerful intellectual property that stay bellow that concept and helped him to become important knowledge property of human race as whole 

[JurijTurnsek]

There must a Ferengi Rule of Acquisition that goes something like "nothing is for free"? USA outsourced all the manufacturing to China, because it was cheaper, while their loose regulations worked their workers to death and heavily polluted their environment. This was a strictly a business decision (fueled by capitalistic reasoning) and they full well knew that their IP is or could get stolen. Their businesses choose to do that (still do).

Now that China has enough educated and talented engineers who are surpassing their USA counterparts, USA is trying to harm them back. Looks like DJI is the next target:

https://www.engadget.com/2019/05/20/us-government-alert-chinese-drone-data/

I am very surprised about big tech companies not lobbying harder to fight this.

[Kisaha]

1 hour ago, JurijTurnsek said:

There must a Ferengi Rule of Acquisition that goes something like "nothing is for free"? USA outsourced all the manufacturing to China, because it was cheaper, while their loose regulations worked their workers to death and heavily polluted their environment. This was a strictly a business decision (fueled by capitalistic reasoning) and they full well knew that their IP is or could get stolen. Their businesses choose to do that (still do).

Now that China has enough educated and talented engineers who are surpassing their USA counterparts, USA is trying to harm them back. Looks like DJI is the next target:

https://www.engadget.com/2019/05/20/us-government-alert-chinese-drone-data/

I am very surprised about big tech companies not lobbying harder to fight this.

When Chinese workers worked for 1-2-3$ per day building our 900$ iPhones, they were golden, now that they can produce on their own they are a national security risk!

Here, there is a Chinese doctor (not even company or anything) that had bought 100-150 appartments in my area (for AirBnB) and have risen the rent prices at least 10-20% on his own. People underestimate the monetery power of China. A billion+ people's state can afford a middle class of 500-600.000.000. 

U.S.A has a national debt of 20 trillions $ (Japan, which is the worst per capita has 9 trillions $), China has only 5 trillions, which is around 47% of its GDP (extremely low for such a big economy, Japan has 220% and Greece 180%!).

Also, China is the biggest investor in Africa which is the next big thing in population and market buying power (I mean, if you start from sub zero, you can only go up!).

Also, East-South Asia! Another booming economy that is mostly controlled by China (and not only the economy..).

EU also, is eying Africa and have signed hundrends of bussiness related papers with China already, and they have huge differences and taxes imposed by Trump already. Germany is huge economic power also (it used to be #1 exporter in the world, before dethroned by China a couple of years ago) with great branding "Made in Germany" and a lot of luxury and expensive items, which will be the last to be hitten by the Chinese economy.

The recent singing of Mercedes with Gilly (a company that hasn't sold a single car in Europe) is self explanatory. The agreement is to Gilly to build the next Smart cars and the venture is 50-50. Not even 51% for Mercedes!

Seriously, I can not see how U.S can win this war. The only advantage they have right now is the best military on the planet, and that changes fast..are they willing to take us to War World 3 before they loose their world domination? Can be, but Russia is there also, not a huge economic power but they have a lot of nuclear heads to spare..

Chernobyl tv series is kind of alarming by the way. I was young when that happened and my country was hit by the nuclear clouds. Terrible stuff, hate nuclear reactions!

[kinoseed]

13 hours ago, DBounce said:

@Kisaha when it comes to dealing with China remember Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 48...  The bigger the smile, the sharper the knife.

So many here are quick to side with China, believing them over western intelligence agencies. I’m not saying that the west is perfect... but at least for most here they are the home team.

@Kisaha, you did notice the word "allegedly inserted a backdoor (in French)"

A backdoor hack could have been done by any intelligence, but it would have never transferred data directly: "After investigating, it was found that the continental organization’s confidential data was being copied on to servers in Shanghai." - sounds like offsite backup to me (data/servers are often backed up remotely in case of local server catastrophic failure - like say fire burns down the building).

So I call this b.s.

"side with China" ?
There was another saying - "If you are not us, you are against us". I think it came from the old USSR, but now we hear it coming a lot from USA.

Facts show that there are no security issues with Huawei's 5G networks, and that "intelligence agencies" (not all western intelligence agencies support that claim, just USA and UK) are simply spreading propaganda (and if you look into the details, there are no proofs, only "concerns").

Now the media is trying to make it look like a big deal that AndroidOne license is revoked (and I don't know even if there are any Huawei deivces, which run it). There are 2 Xiaomi phones A1,A2 (I think) with AndroidOne, but that's about it. So Google's project - AndroidOne is dead, Huawei phones will watch youtube over the browser, and the world keeps turning.

cheers

[Kisaha]

1 hour ago, kinoseed said:

@Kisaha, you did notice the word "allegedly inserted a backdoor (in French)"

A backdoor hack could have been done by any intelligence, but it would have never transferred data directly: "After investigating, it was found that the continental organization’s confidential data was being copied on to servers in Shanghai." - sounds like offsite backup to me (data/servers are often backed up remotely in case of local server catastrophic failure - like say fire burns down the building).

that is why I linked that report. There were others supporting the Westerner's approach and others that supported China's 100%.

The truth is always somewhere in the middle.

There are issues with China's influence in Africa too. In reality they favor countries rich in resources they need, some of the things they build are of very bad quality, they bring a lot of Chinese workers so they do not help the local population with specialization or jobs, e.t.c

Of course the colonial period is not easily to be forgotten, so China is a more preferable economic ally anyway.

[MochaP]

I found this post quite entertaining to me because it reflects the POVs of most western people on the US-Sino trade war which is a little bit surprise and not surprise to me.

What the comments surprised me are that a lot of people see US acting against Huawei is to kill the competitor for the US companies but simply ignore the IP theft and more seriously, the state-controlled nature of the tech giant. Why I tend to believe that US is doing the right thing is because that’s how China government control people in their country. There are already 200 million CCTV installed (P.S. China population is 1.4 billion) in the whole country in every accessible corner with face recognition technology which can spot your position and send order to police grabbing you within 7 minutes. Not just that, there is another brand called hikvision, one of the largest CCTV manufacturer in the world which produces the CCTV with backdoor or even without admin password. That means everyone can access to the cameras simply by the IP address and your home or office will become Trueman Show for free. There was already a case about the CCTV produced by Xiami which is spotted by the network technician for its transferring 40GB of video to a server in mainland China without precaution. In my mind, Huawei is just another bad ass company that is no different from others in PRC. A theft never claims himself theft.

Please beware that Huawei is tech company with sophisticated branding and social media technique to cover her ambitious of penetrating your daily life by the smartphone and 5G technology. The 10x optical zoom is so sweet and the price is lower than the over-priced iPhone which is quite tempting for every user. However, once you own the phone and start taking photos or talking, your privacy should be gone immediately. The phone is usually pre-installed Tik Tok and Wechat which are already reported the most unsecured application of privacy. PRC may not interested in your private life. But if the phones are being used by the people working in government or military officer, I.T. industries or any other organization with valuable IP asset or sensitive information, all the effort of building up for nation security and innovation will be sold silently which is too late when you are woken up.

Don’t be short sight on this “little” matter. Trade war may bring damage to economic but it is a must to go against the potential hazard before it is unrecoverable. The next battle line is not trade war but network war which target to infrastructure from communication, traffic system or electricity that are connected to network. If 5G is controlled, your life is controlled, possibly, by China government.

Why you should trust what I said is because I live in Hong Kong, just next to my enemy and I am fucked by my government every day. That's also why I said your comments are not surprise to me because you are not close enough to the source of information. 

5 hours ago, Kisaha said:

U.S.A has a national debt of 20 trillions $ (Japan, which is the worst per capita has 9 trillions $), China has only 5 trillions, which is around 47% of its GDP (extremely low for such a big economy, Japan has 220% and Greece 180%!).

@Kisaha FYI, always search for information with opposite opinion. I dare saying that every official information announced by China government is not trustable. The debt of China should be 300% of the GDP. I know what the real financial situation there. If you want information in English, please click the link below. What Panos Mourdoukoutas said is not far from truth. Another financial tsunami is almost coming. Buy gold to secure yourself.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/panosmourdoukoutas/2018/11/24/debt-not-trade-war-is-chinas-biggest-problem

@DBounce I believe that we are living in the same dimension. Glad to know that I have companion.
@Yurolov You are on my side, too. Bless you.
 

[DBounce]

@MochaP I hear you mate, I recall when Hong Kong was given back to China. Many tried to flee to the UK. It’s hard to live in a free society and suddenly lose your rights.

Too many on this forum seem to be backing the wrong team for the sake of cheaper electronics. As far as I’m concerned, while I enjoy cameras, smartphones and other gadgets, human freedoms take precedence over silly toys that will be worthless in five years.

The West has its flaws, but it’s still a beacon of hope when compared to communists countries. It’s too bad so many spoiled, self loathing western can’t grasp that fact. If the West falls, it will be those ingrates that caused its demise from the inside out.

Make no mistake of it... China is a enemy of the West. This may change in time... but there is no guarantee it will. 

[Emanuel]

WTH... and Trump is your friend...?!

C'mon, give us all a break and yourself too to begin with BTW : ) Stop to be naif! : -)

 

[sanveer]

2 hours ago, DBounce said:

@MochaP I hear you mate, I recall when Hong Kong was given back to China. Many tried to flee to the UK. It’s hard to live in a free society and suddenly lose your rights.

Too many on this forum seem to be backing the wrong team for the sake of cheaper electronics. As far as I’m concerned, while I enjoy cameras, smartphones and other gadgets, human freedoms take precedence over silly toys that will be worthless in five years.

The West has its flaws, but it’s still a beacon of hope when compared to communists countries. It’s too bad so many spoiled, self loathing western can’t grasp that fact. If the West falls, it will be those ingrates that caused its demise from the inside out.

Make no mistake of it... China is a enemy of the West. This may change in time... but there is no guarantee it will. 

I don't know what you're on, but I'd like some of that. ???

[MochaP]

1 hour ago, Emanuel said:

WTH... and Trump is your friend...?!

C'mon, give us all a break and yourself too to begin with BTW : ) Stop to be naif! : -)

 

Well, it is complicated and not too complicated at all. All political issue is relatively right or wrong, just depending on what side you take or what kind of benefit you stand for. I would say trade war is just a game of Evil vs Evil. My take is to let Trump live and Huawei (China) down.

Personally, I am not fans of Trump and hate him quite a lot at the very beginning. However, he acts quite “normally” when dealing with the conflict with China government. A lot of people in Hong Kong is quite supportive to his action although we already know the consequence of the economic drawback if trade war continues. I would say China Communist Party is too strong to be destroyed as they utilize all kind of brutal force to surpass all the opinions that are against the government. And the perfect surveillance system has already implanted in the smartphone in mainland China by WeChat. Every text and money transaction is monitored and privacy is almost zero.

In the world of WeChat, thousands of sensitive words against government will be pacified and the people who sent them will be tracked down just half an hour. A hilarious example, a lot of people in China used to mock president Xi by using Winnie the Pooh, who looks a little bit clumsy about his character. The China government just filtered all the words a year ago for over a month to warn the people stop using the words. The most recent sensitive word is iPhone just because it is brand from US! Even simple as buying a knife in some province, the government requires the people to register and engrave the QR code on the knife to ensure it won’t be used as weapon. It is happened in Xinjiang Province already. That’s fxcking horrible enough for general people living in China that they have to tolerance a lot of unreasonable behavior of the government. Only the people keep silence or obey the instruction from government can make a good living. That’s why there are about 100 million of people join CCP because just the people in governing class can enjoy good life. But it also means those people will get the license to corrupt, to surpass the dissidents or to kill without consequence.

Theoretically, the simple math of the monitoring system is that one out of fourteen people is CCP member thus each member can govern another thirteen people. Of course, not all the people in CCP do the same job. With the aim of CCTV system across the country, every surveillance camera can monitor seven people in average. However, 200 million is not the final figure of the cameras. The target number of CCTV installation should be 570 million before 2020 which make CCP great again!

Although the people in US may feel suffered by Trump’s act, that’s should be an end if he cannot pass the next presidency, or worst, another four years. I fully understand that a lot of people emotionally hate Trump as everything he does should be wrong and stupid. But it is the first time someone brings hope to the people in Hong Kong and China because the prestige of CCP is ruptured by the act of Trump. Xi may go down or even more seriously, down with CCP. World economic and the order should be chaotic if it happened. But I believe, western world can overcome for several years while eastern world may take longer, such as ten years to recover. China is the problem to the whole world. She is too hungry for all kind of resource to feed up her people. Let she suffer may bring a better future to all human race.

So, don’t cry for Huawei, it does not deserve.

[Emanuel]

People are much involved in politics to see beyond. B&W is too little when there are multiple tones in-between.

 

[anonim]

2 minutes ago, MochaP said:

China is the problem to the whole world. She is too hungry for all kind of resource to feed up her people. Let she suffer may bring a better future to all human race.

So suffer of hungry people will bring better future to all human race? 

[DBounce]

1 hour ago, Emanuel said:

WTH... and Trump is your friend...?!

C'mon, give us all a break and yourself too to begin with BTW : ) Stop to be naif! : -)

 

I have no beef with him. He’s been in the public eye for years and I never heard anyone call him racist... until he ran for office. He was well like in Hollywood... until he ran for office. He was an idol to black rappers world wide... until he ran for office. 

Honestly, it’s not like he did anything surprising... everything he’s doing, or trying to do is stuff he ran on. The real shocker is perhaps that politicians never do what they promise to do... so everyone is speechless when one does. 

The former leadership wanted to hand the world to China on a golden platter. 

Remember this nonsense? 

If I have a beef, it’s with those that pray for the countries demise. There are actually people hoping for the economy to fail. There are actually people that were disappointed that he’s NOT a Russian asset. 

No worries... The tables have turned. Four separate investigations and none have found anything on him. They’re trying to subpoena his tax records to find something... anything to remove him from office. Well good luck with that. The IRS has audited him plenty... that’s what they do. And guess what? Nada! Finally those that worked in secret to subvert the nation are under scrutiny... I suspect that in the coming months many of them will be looking at serious prison time.

[Emanuel]

Trump, popular, ever? Well, for a conservative faction desperately looking for idols from vacuum...? Of course. No one else.

[DBounce]

32 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

Trump, popular, ever? Well, for a conservative faction desperately looking for idols from vacuum? Of course. No one else.

Yeah that’s what this infamous troll thought when he posted this poll today on Tweeter... things didn’t go as he expected.

[Emanuel]

Right. On Twitter... Where else? The very democratic and equity US Electoral college too?

I doubt the also liberal Churchill would praise him...

I bet this one coming from someone with conservative roots, such means something. As well, that old principle, you know, one man one vote. Not for everyone, though, isn't it? ; -)