The digital film look on a budget - 10 years after the Arri Alexa, what gets closest for cheapest?

[BjornT]

GH5 with metabones speed booster and sigma 18-35 lens combined with Emotive Color from @Sage gives a great cinematic image in my opinion. 

[tonysss]

3 hours ago, osmanovic said:

Especially the BMPCC is used very often next to Arri Alexa. Apparently very few people here know that. 

Yes, BMPCC and BMMCC was very often used as a B cam and crash camera, as a supplement to Alexa mainly for a similar picture, And They are small to fit everywhere ?  on the net, I did not find any example of Canon Magic latern RAW which I would like more than the BMPCC image. Yes there is a ton of garbage from both cameras but what is shining is always BMCC, BMPCC or BMMCC

12 minutes ago, BjornT said:

GH5 with metabones speed booster and sigma 18-35 lens combined with Emotive Color from @Sage gives a great cinematic image in my opinion. 

I do not think so, I have GH5 + 18-35 more than two years.  And the colors and Look of the orig.BMPCC and BMMCC are somewhere else! I have BMMCC and BMPCC for half a year and it's beautiful, I've been looking for in the last 100 cameras!

p.s.     I always take GH5 for a wedding ? it is more comfortable

[tonysss]

4 hours ago, Avenger 2.0 said:

Maybe a GH5, but worry about AF and low-light performance for wedding. Anyone an idea for a good wedding video camera around this budget?

 

I don't know a better combo for a wedding like GH5 + Sigma 18-35 ,  it is very convenient and quick to use thanks to built-in stabilization it is irreplaceable for such work ! The battery lasts over two hours. Articulated display, excellent sound, decent colors and dynamic range and much more... look at my wedding videos, all with GH5 + Sigma 18-35 and Tokina 11-16 and B cam GX80 + 42.5mm f1.7 

The low light level is an overrated mantra, I'm angry about that!  GH5 + Sigma 18-35 It will give you an aperture f1.2 In combination with the ISO 1600-3200, Nothing he can't shoot!  GH5 is still fully usable at ISO 3200. 

[MKjaer]

Great article and interesting topic. You should really do a series of these articles with different price brackets. 0-1000, 1000-2000 and so on. 

Question: How does the original a7s stack up today in this comparison. It is getting very cheap these days, and bring some advances in low light and usability compared to using ML. Even the a7s2 is dropping in price.

 

 

 

[heart0less]

I loved this article.

Great insights; made me reconsider a lot of affordable and viable options.

 

Please, keep them coming, Andrew!

[mercer]

5 hours ago, osmanovic said:

Especially the BMPCC is used very often next to Arri Alexa. Apparently very few people here know that. 

I think a lot of people know that.

[mercer]

1 hour ago, tonysss said:

Yes, BMPCC and BMMCC was very often used as a B cam and crash camera, as a supplement to Alexa mainly for a similar picture, And They are small to fit everywhere ?  on the net, I did not find any example of Canon Magic latern RAW which I would like more than the BMPCC image. Yes there is a ton of garbage from both cameras but what is shining is always BMCC, BMPCC or BMMCC

The list is subjective as are camera choices. I’ve owned 2 BMPCC, 1 Micro, an EOS-M (ML Raw), a 50D and now a 5D Mark III and without a doubt the 5D Mark III with 14bit uncompressed Raw is my favorite of the lot... no contest.

The BMPCC is ridiculously cheap right now so I may own a 3rd in coming months, but for me it would be a ProRes LT camera since I already have FF Raw.

I’d rather have a Micro but even though you can buy one used for around $500, by the time you kit it out, it’s closer to a grand. And at a grand, it’s a tougher buy for me as a second camera. For me, I may as well spend a touch more and get a GH5 for its IBIS and plethora of other features.

The Pocket/Micro are amazing cameras, they’re just kind of a pain to shoot with... too many workarounds. Beautiful images though. With that being said, I just made an offer on a Micro since I already own an Ikan VL35 monitor and a slew of c-mount lenses.

 

[BTM_Pix]

21 minutes ago, mercer said:

The Pocket/Micro are amazing cameras, they’re just kind of a pain to shoot with... too many workarounds. Beautiful images though. With that being said, I just made an offer on a Micro since I already own an Ikan VL35 monitor and a slew of c-mount lenses.

I've brought a BMPCC with me on this trip and using it with the two Panasonic small cheap zooms as they have IS and using internal batteries to keep it all small as well.

My batteries are pretty ropey so I get about 5 minutes of actual shooting per one but its no big deal carrying a few.

I've no idea what the footage really looks like but I'm mainly doing night stuff with it but off the back screen it certainly looks suitably neon lit urban sleazy !

Don't forget to treat those old SD cards carefully because as you know its a bit of a bastard trying to get recently produced ones to work in them.

 

 

[mercer]

17 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

I've brought a BMPCC with me on this trip and using it with the two Panasonic small cheap zooms as they have IS and using internal batteries to keep it all small as well.

My batteries are pretty ropey so I get about 5 minutes of actual shooting per one but its no big deal carrying a few.

I've no idea what the footage really looks like but I'm mainly doing night stuff with it but off the back screen it certainly looks suitably neon lit urban sleazy !

Don't forget to treat those old SD cards carefully because as you know its a bit of a bastard trying to get recently produced ones to work in them.

 

 

That’s exactly how I used the BMPCC as well. With my first one, I splurged on the 12-35mm 2.8 and with the second one I used the 14-42mm. Personally, I would never use the BMPCC rigged up... it just goes against the point of the camera to me. The most I would do is add a loupe and that cheap Lanc trigger handle and treat it like a Super 8 camera. As far as battery life, the official Nikon battery is supposed to last the longest.

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

Can't say it is a cinematic image (is a very personal taste concept), but the E-M10 MK III have a VERY different color science from all the other Olympus cameras (the E-M1 MK II could have the same colors, since the E-M10 III uses the same chipset). Noted it after shooting some stills of my daughter - best skintones that I've saw in JPG from m4/3 (and this is my 7th m4/3 body), destroyed the ones on my Fuji X100S. Much warmer tones, looks a lot like Canon colors.

Then I've gone to DPReview and Imaging Resource, used their test comparison tools, and noted the same - warmer tones than all the Panasonics, and different from a lot of other Olympus cameras (Pen F, E-M5 II, E-M1 MK I, previous E-M10 versions). There is something different in that little beast.

If Oly did not had cripple their firmware (a lot for stills, a little for video), I could say that it is the hidden gem of the current Oly bodies.

[tonysss]

1 hour ago, mercer said:

As far as battery life, the official Nikon battery is supposed to last the longest.

Yes, new battery Nikon 50-60min

[mercer]

1 hour ago, Márcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

Can't say it is a cinematic image (is a very personal taste concept), but the E-M10 MK III have a VERY different color science from all the other Olympus cameras (the E-M1 MK II could have the same colors, since the E-M10 III uses the same chipset). Noted it after shooting some stills of my daughter - best skintones that I've saw in JPG from m4/3 (and this is my 7th m4/3 body), destroyed the ones on my Fuji X100S. Much warmer tones, looks a lot like Canon colors.

Then I've gone to DPReview and Imaging Resource, used their test comparison tools, and noted the same - warmer tones than all the Panasonics, and different from a lot of other Olympus cameras (Pen F, E-M5 II, E-M1 MK I, previous E-M10 versions). There is something different in that little beast.

If Oly did not had cripple their firmware (a lot for stills, a little for video), I could say that it is the hidden gem of the current Oly bodies.

My friend has the 10iii and loves it. It definitely can have a cinematic image.

I believe a lot of the other, older, Olympus cameras use Rec601 instead of Rec709 but I still think the E-M5 Mark II is an underrated camera and would happily shoot with it. The IBIS on it is insane. 

26 minutes ago, tonysss said:

Yes, new battery Nikon 50-60min

Good to know, that’s definitelt worth the little extra for the name brand. I’ve never used the cameras side by side, but I’ve heard the IQ is a little bit better with the Micro... have you noticed that?

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

1 hour ago, mercer said:

My friend has the 10iii and loves it. It definitely can have a cinematic image.

I believe a lot of the other, older, Olympus cameras use Rec601 instead of Rec709 but I still think the E-M5 Mark II is an underrated camera and would happily shoot with it. The IBIS on it is insane. 

Good to know, that’s definitelt worth the little extra for the name brand. I’ve never used the cameras side by side, but I’ve heard the IQ is a little bit better with the Micro... have you noticed that?

Had one E-M5 MK II, but when shooting concerts it was my stills camera. Once tried with the 1.x firmware, and did not like the footage. But prior to return it to Olympus (the authorized service here literally destroyed the camera trying to fix a...bad EVF sensor), made a quick test with the firmware that improved the video modes and it was MUCH better.
But the E-M10 MK III is even better.

[Matt Kieley]

6 hours ago, mercer said:

I’d rather have a Micro but even though you can buy one used for around $500, by the time you kit it out, it’s closer to a grand. And at a grand, it’s a tougher buy for me as a second camera. For me, I may as well spend a touch more and get a GH5 for its IBIS and plethora of other features.

The Pocket/Micro are amazing cameras, they’re just kind of a pain to shoot with... too many workarounds. Beautiful images though. With that being said, I just made an offer on a Micro since I already own an Ikan VL35 monitor and a slew of c-mount lenses.

 

You might be able to get a good deal on the 'bay if you're a little patient. I just won an auction on the Micro WITH an Olympus 17mm 1.8 bundled for $555, and I immediately resold the lens for $250 and used that to put together a solid rig (Smallrig cage/monitor mount, wooden rosette handle, NP-F bridge with NP-F batteries) that makes it very functional and usable. It's like a little baby Red camera now.

[kye]

10 hours ago, BjornT said:

GH5 with metabones speed booster and sigma 18-35 lens combined with Emotive Color from @Sage gives a great cinematic image in my opinion. 

There isn't a lot of love for the GH5 when compared to the older BM cameras as the 4K modes have that new/modern/digital look about them, which people often counter with vintage lenses, but the 6K modes are a different beast.

I wonder how much the 6K 10-bit h265 mode improves it in the eyes of the classic BM camera fans?  I'm not suggesting that it makes it Alexa territory, but my impression was that it takes it a good step in that direction?

[mercer]

7 hours ago, Matt Kieley said:

You might be able to get a good deal on the 'bay if you're a little patient. I just won an auction on the Micro WITH an Olympus 17mm 1.8 bundled for $555, and I immediately resold the lens for $250 and used that to put together a solid rig (Smallrig cage/monitor mount, wooden rosette handle, NP-F bridge with NP-F batteries) that makes it very functional and usable. It's like a little baby Red camera now.

That was a good deal and I think I may have bid that one up for you. As I’ve stated ad nauseum, I love my 5D3, so I’m in no rush. My goal is to build a similar kit as you for $750 or less... anything more and I may as well get a Z Cam E2C or a GH5 as a second camera. 

5 hours ago, kye said:

There isn't a lot of love for the GH5 when compared to the older BM cameras as the 4K modes have that new/modern/digital look about them, which people often counter with vintage lenses, but the 6K modes are a different beast.

I wonder how much the 6K 10-bit h265 mode improves it in the eyes of the classic BM camera fans?  I'm not suggesting that it makes it Alexa territory, but my impression was that it takes it a good step in that direction?

How is the IQ of the 6K mode different? I’m not a fan of h.265 so it sounds a bit less appealing. 

[Shirozina]

The IQ of the GH5 in 'open gate' mode is IMO better than in the UHD/4k modes. It's got cleaner detail with none of the obvious sharpening that some users complain about in UHD/4k and the shadows are slightly less noisy and have cleaner blacks. More importantly it's got no aliasing artefacts in fine detail (when suitably downsampled in your NLE) which is the major flaw with BM cameras using 1:1 sampling sensors. Just curious but why are you not a fan of h.265?

[mercer]

8 hours ago, Shirozina said:

The IQ of the GH5 in 'open gate' mode is IMO better than in the UHD/4k modes. It's got cleaner detail with none of the obvious sharpening that some users complain about in UHD/4k and the shadows are slightly less noisy and have cleaner blacks. More importantly it's got no aliasing artefacts in fine detail (when suitably downsampled in your NLE) which is the major flaw with BM cameras using 1:1 sampling sensors. Just curious but why are you not a fan of h.265?

Good to know, thanks. I shot h.265 extensively with the NX500 and had to transcode the files to ProRes before bringing into FCPX and the process took forever... processing my 14bit uncompressed Raw files take less time.

Now I know you can edit h.265 natively but I prefer to transcode to ProRes before ingesting into FCPX.

[tonysss]

On 5/22/2019 at 7:47 PM, mercer said:

Good to know, that’s definitelt worth the little extra for the name brand. I’ve never used the cameras side by side, but I’ve heard the IQ is a little bit better with the Micro... have you noticed that?

Yes , Micro has a little cleaner sharpen picture and realistic colors against BMPCC. But it's not a big difference. But every time I shoot one camera, I take Micro ?

[BjornT]

On 5/22/2019 at 2:51 PM, tonysss said:

Yes, BMPCC and BMMCC was very often used as a B cam and crash camera, as a supplement to Alexa mainly for a similar picture, And They are small to fit everywhere ?  on the net, I did not find any example of Canon Magic latern RAW which I would like more than the BMPCC image. Yes there is a ton of garbage from both cameras but what is shining is always BMCC, BMPCC or BMMCC

I do not think so, I have GH5 + 18-35 more than two years.  And the colors and Look of the orig.BMPCC and BMMCC are somewhere else! I have BMMCC and BMPCC for half a year and it's beautiful, I've been looking for in the last 100 cameras!

p.s.     I always take GH5 for a wedding ? it is more comfortable

Used to have a blackmagic pocket myself and first I missed that with the GH5 in picture quality but once I started using Sage's Emotive Color in post production I didn't miss it anymore.