Panasonic FF L-mount Cine camera coming

[DBounce]

9 minutes ago, KnightsFan said:

Any gear aimed at serious video people will be more expensive due to lower demand. I think S1r pricing is approximately accurate.

I don't think anything in the Lumix line-up is considered aimed at "serious" video people... That sounds more like Varicam territory to me. I'm sure some will speak out about the GH5/S... and yes professional work can be  produced with any of these cameras, but I can't see Michael Bay selecting the GH5 as his A-cam any time soon. 

So here is a question: Does Sony even make a 20MP Full Frame sensor? And if not perhaps this will be (finally) one of Panasonics actual sensors.

[webrunner5]

7 minutes ago, DBounce said:

 

 Does Sony even make a 20MP Full Frame sensor?

Not that I know of, but it might be the new Sony a7s mk III sensor, and Sony is letting Panasonic work with it. Who the hell knows. But it Might be the Panny, Fuji sensor they have been working on forever. If so you would think Fuji would be announcing something special also.

[newfoundmass]

8 minutes ago, DBounce said:

don't think anything in the Lumix line-up is considered aimed at "serious" video people...

There's an awful lot of people that rely on Lumix cameras for their professional video work and businesses, so I'd have to disagree. 

 

11 minutes ago, DBounce said:

and yes professional work can be  produced with any of these cameras, but I can't see Michael Bay selecting the GH5 as his A-cam any time soon. 

"Serious video work" shouldn't be based on the size or scope of the work. Certainly wedding filmmakers are doing serious video work? Or the indie filmmakers that shoot their films with Lumix cams. 

[KnightsFan]

5 minutes ago, DBounce said:

I don't think anything in the Lumix line-up is considered aimed at "serious" video people... That sounds more like Varicam territory to me. I'm sure some will speak out about the GH5/S... and yes professional work can be  produced with any of these cameras, but I can't see Michael Bay selecting the GH5 as his A-cam any time soon. 

So here is a question: Does Sony even make a 20MP Full Frame sensor? And if not perhaps this will be (finally) one of Panasonics actual sensors.

By "serious" I mean people (perhaps on a budget) who want video features like NDs, timecode, and shutter angle instead of a shutter speed. I don't mean Varicam customers, and I certainly don't mean Michael Bay.

I have a feeling it is not a Sony sensor, just as a guess. Panasonic might be trying to distance itself from Sony now that it has a direct competitor.

[Oliver Daniel]

4 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

There's an awful lot of people that rely on Lumix cameras for their professional video work and businesses, so I'd have to disagree. 

 

"Serious video work" shouldn't be based on the size or scope of the work. Certainly wedding filmmakers are doing serious video work? Or the indie filmmakers that shoot their films with Lumix cams. 

You’re right. 

I know countless people using the GH5 for serious video work. I’m one of them and everybody is fine with it, and never questions it. I use it alongside the EVA1 and the GH5 performs brilliantly, every time.  

 

[Django]

46 minutes ago, DBounce said:

So here is a question: Does Sony even make a 20MP Full Frame sensor? And if not perhaps this will be (finally) one of Panasonics actual sensors.

1

Pretty sure Panasonic has been using TowerJazz sensors (which they own) in a lot of their latest bodies. 

[DBounce]

1 hour ago, newfoundmass said:

There's an awful lot of people that rely on Lumix cameras for their professional video work and businesses, so I'd have to disagree. 

So you disagree with the below statement that you omitted?

1 hour ago, DBounce said:

and yes professional work can be  produced with any of these cameras, but I can't see Michael Bay selecting the GH5 as his A-cam any time soon. 

Look, I full well know that many people use GH5/series cameras for weddings, corporate videos maybe even some commercial work. But for myself, I have always considered the GH5 cameras to be more, "prosumer" not professional cameras. I'll go one better than that, M43 in general IMO is not a professional format for stills or video. For still work I consider Full Frame or larger ideal for professional work. In video I look mainly to S35 or larger unless we are talking about ENG cameras... which is not something I am particularly interested in. But again, I will concede, professional work can be produced on any of the better modern cameras.

I think part of what makes these hybrids great, is the fact that aspiring creators can use "prosumer" gear and achieve pro results. While Arri and Red are no doubt wonderful cameras. They work best when you have the budget for a crew. Generally productions will have more than one of these on hand as backups. Lenses will run $20K plus each. And that's  not even anamorphic. 

It's exciting to see what Panasonic will bring in the next few days. And I know most here will hope Panasonic prices this body as "prosumer" not "pro".

[anonim]

At least one aspect of new price-strategy of all big pro-xxx-ish A-G-S-E-X-M-Z+native lenses manufacturers seems to me on merciful therapeutic side: it's easier to find peace of mind and feel yourself as winner over attacks of GAS fever... and look at things as passenger through boutique.

Especially in that regard, hearing that users such Oliver Daniel are achieving so remarkable results with superior and noble power over GAS snobbery - is one of the nicer experience to get in this wonderful forum! 

[Video Hummus]

1 hour ago, DBounce said:

I'll go one better than that, M43 in general IMO is not a professional format for stills or video. For still work I consider Full Frame or larger ideal for professional work.

I’ll go one even further and say you’re not a professional either because your not shooting on medium format Arri cameras like real professionals do in multi-million dollar productions. ?

You can tease a masterpiece out of almost any modern camera regardless of sensor size. It’s art. The camera is a tool. Just like a chisel is a tool to a wood engraver. And we all know only real wood engravers use #8 sized chisels only ?

[DBounce]

1 minute ago, Video Hummus said:

I’ll go one even further and say you’re not a professional either because your not shooting on medium format Arri cameras like real professionals do in multi-million dollar productions. ?

You can tease a masterpiece out of almost any modern camera regardless of sensor size. It’s art. The camera is a tool. Just like a chisel is a tool to a wood engraver. And we all know only real wood engravers use #8 sized chisels only ?

I'm not a professional. I only do this stuff for fun and to capture memories. I do own some "pro" stills cameras... but that does not make me a professional. I'm not sure I would consider the C200 "Pro", though it can capture a lovely image. I'm perfectly happy with the sub $10k prosumer hybrid cameras... as travel cameras. If this new Pani has nice color science and good DR, I may well add it to my collection.... It will be this or the pseudo Medium Format GFX100... which I also think is a pretty sweet camera. Though the size/weight might be a turn off. I need to seem more footage to be convinced. 

There is nothing wrong with "prosumer". Heck, some of the consumer cameras are pretty dam capable... the Fuji X-T3 comes to mind (really fun to shoot).

[PrometheusDM]

4 hours ago, DBounce said:

I don't think anything in the Lumix line-up is considered aimed at "serious" video people... That sounds more like Varicam territory to me. I'm sure some will speak out about the GH5/S... and yes professional work can be  produced with any of these cameras, but I can't see Michael Bay selecting the GH5 as his A-cam any time soon. 

So here is a question: Does Sony even make a 20MP Full Frame sensor? And if not perhaps this will be (finally) one of Panasonics actual sensors.

What's consider "serious"? Is it the end result or the tool you use? Is it only Hollywood production? 

Panasonic S1 is the first to have 4K60 FF mirrorless, unlimited 4K30, and eventually 10 bit VLOG upgrade. Not even Sony A9 does that.

We don't know what the new Lumix Cine will offer other than the rumor 6K log setting which none of the Sony has. It's possible they used Tower Jazz sensor after all they were once a majority owner of TowerJazz. They were speculate to be the sensor maker for the Nikon D850. Panasonic has organic sensor that Sony can't even match. 

"TowerJazz also owns 51% of TowerJazz Panasonic Semiconductor Co. (TPSCo) ,[9] an enterprise with Panasonic Corporation." 

[Django]

Any camera that allows you to get the job done and get paid is a pro tool imo.

Of course if you're doing high-end cinema, sports photography or have broadcast requirements, that may exclude most hybrid MILCs (at least as A-cams).

The C200 is definitely pro gear even if it isn't Netflix approved or has a broadcast-friendly codec. 

There is a indie feature film presented at Cannes festival this year making buzz that was shot on 4 C200s, another one last year was shot on couple A7S2s.

[KnightsFan]

Regardless of what is professional or not, the point was simply that DSLR-style cameras with more video-oriented features are more expensive than their photography counterparts, so it seems likely that this new Panasonic camera, if it is an "S1s," will be priced above the S1. Whether anyone uses it for hobby, weddings, family gatherings, or as an A cam on the Avengers, it's unlikely that it will be the same or equal price to the S1, even if it has only 20 MP.

I'm not sure how that led to whether GH5's were professional.

[DBounce]

32 minutes ago, Django said:

Any camera that allows you to get the job done and get paid is a pro tool imo.

Well, by that reasoning the iPhone 7 is a “Pro” camera, as I seem to recall it being used on more than one occasion for professional work. But I’m sure you do actually understand that almost no one would consider an iPhone to be a “Pro” camera. 

[Andrew Reid]

5 hours ago, DBounce said:

I don't think anything in the Lumix line-up is considered aimed at "serious" video people... That sounds more like Varicam territory to me. I'm sure some will speak out about the GH5/S... and yes professional work can be  produced with any of these cameras, but I can't see Michael Bay selecting the GH5 as his A-cam any time soon. 

So here is a question: Does Sony even make a 20MP Full Frame sensor? And if not perhaps this will be (finally) one of Panasonics actual sensors.

A GH4 was used heavily on a Netflix series recently. Also The Grand Tour / BBC Top Gear.

GH5S is a serious pro tool for a lot of people.

It won't be a 20MP full frame sensor if it does 6K. No need to make a new sensor. It'll have the 24 megapixel S1 sensor which is 6000 pixels wide, so capable of 6K with full pixel readout. The Cinema S1 will just take that same chip and back it up with a beefy 6K codec. Let's hope price is no more than $3500 and that the specs are competitive with the upcoming A7S III... Oh, and that it has IBIS!

[DBounce]

34 minutes ago, KnightsFan said:

Regardless of what is professional or not, the point was simply that DSLR-style cameras with more video-oriented features are more expensive than their photography counterparts, so it seems likely that this new Panasonic camera, if it is an "S1s," will be priced above the S1. Whether anyone uses it for hobby, weddings, family gatherings, or as an A cam on the Avengers, it's unlikely that it will be the same or equal price to the S1, even if it has only 20 MP.

I'm not sure how that led to whether GH5's were professional.

But this is certainly not true for the Nikon Z6 vs Z7... and iirc the Sony A7R2 was more costly than the A7S2. Only Panasonic charges more for lower resolution sensors (GH5 Vs GH5s). And come to think of it, is not the S1 lower priced than the S1R?

And if larger, will it sport a fan?

[KnightsFan]

@DBounce the z7, a7rX, and s1r are high MP models, higher than most photographers need. Same as with more videocentric models, they have relatively special purpose, lower demand, so a higher price compared to the base model.

[Django]

33 minutes ago, DBounce said:

Well, by that reasoning the iPhone 7 is a “Pro” camera, as I seem to recall it being used on more than one occasion for professional work. But I’m sure you do actually understand that almost no one would consider an iPhone to be a “Pro” camera. 

iPhone 7 was indeed used by academy award indie filmmaker extraordinaire Michel Gondry for a short sponsored by Apple. 

It was more of a challenge type promo, so not exactly your typical film project but I remember Gondry said the challenge was fun. and sometimes fun-factor is what you need.

Bottom line to me is if it was used for professional work than yes it is capable of professional results. Maybe not to you/me or Michael Bay's standards. But it might be to some guy out there that might just change the game, so who are we really to judge?

I know a very famous photographer that sells in the biggest galleries that has exhibited work shot on a iPhone on more than one occasion because he documents stuff and you know the best camera is the one you have with you.

Btw, smartphone camera technology is making more advancements than anywhere else in the field and soon that tech will probably trickle up into "pro" cameras.

[DBounce]

18 minutes ago, Django said:

Bottom line to me is if it was used for professional work than yes it is capable of professional results.

So we agree... because I said that any of the current prosumer hybrids are capable of professional results. Granted, that doesn't mean they are considered "Pro" bodies. 

Fyi: Unsane was shot entirely on the iPhone 7.

 

[Andrew Reid]

Getting back on the topic would be good.