Germy1979 Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Hey guys, I'm wondering if anyone else has had a problem like this. I took several shots of some tree mountain overlooks the other day in broad daylight. When I brought them into AE back home, there was an awful static in all of the trees. I applied no grain or noise in post. As well, this doesn't look anything like the level of detail I've seen from everyone else's BMC footage online... I'm pretty certain I have a bad cam here. Everything looks like it was shot on 16mm in 1975. (Which might not be a bad thing.) Anyway, here is the footage with absolute minimum color correction. (Filmconvert BMCC "film" profile with Kodak Vision 5207 and NO grain.) This is also an MP4. The original DNG's look awful. Please help if this is a known issue. I'm still waiting on BMD to get back to me on this. There's even Aliasing in the water ripples on the lake shots. https://vimeo.com/72041029 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurtinMinorKey Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 I responded on your Vimeo profile. To make a long story short, please post a .dng from 0:32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Curious to see a DNG sequence too. It looks like the effect you get when you lift shadows a lot. But more like the behaviour you would expect from an 8-bit cam. Transfer a dng clip to yourself with wetransfer.com and drop the link here I'd say. Does AE use Camera Raw for the DNG's? In that case, is it possible the 'Auto exposure' setting is enabled? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Germy1979 Posted August 9, 2013 Author Share Posted August 9, 2013 Amen. Thanks guys i appreciate your help.... I'll put up a DNG sequence when i get home. The one thing i forgot to mention was actually another issue i had. I exposed for the zebras, then i pulled down a little more to hold the highlights, but maintain some shadow detail. It was all native asa 800 too. On the bmc screen, it looked well balanced. When i pulled it in adobe camera raw, it was blown out to hell. I took off all auto exposure, sharpness, any "auto" anything i could think of. I didn't push the shadows at all actually. It's pretty misleading that the shot looks nothing like what i'd seen when i hit record. I'm coming from a gh2, 5d2, and a C100. I'm new at this camera and raw, but i still tried to expose correctly regardless and not rely on raw 12 bit 13 stops, so that's why i'm confused. This just doesn't sound, or look very good to me at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurtinMinorKey Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Amen. Thanks guys i appreciate your help.... I'll put up a DNG sequence when i get home. The one thing i forgot to mention was actually another issue i had. I exposed for the zebras, then i pulled down a little more to hold the highlights, but maintain some shadow detail. It was all native asa 800 too. On the bmc screen, it looked well balanced. When i pulled it in adobe camera raw, it was blown out to hell. I took off all auto exposure, sharpness, any "auto" anything i could think of. I didn't push the shadows at all actually. It's pretty misleading that the shot looks nothing like what i'd seen when i hit record. I'm coming from a gh2, 5d2, and a C100. I'm new at this camera and raw, but i still tried to expose correctly regardless and not rely on raw 12 bit 13 stops, so that's why i'm confused. This just doesn't sound, or look very good to me at all. Did you monitor in film mode? I always monitor in video mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted August 9, 2013 Administrators Share Posted August 9, 2013 It isn't normal behaviour. Looks like a workflow issue. More details of that please! Also, try a copy of Resolve Lite and see if you have the same artefact with the DNGs in that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkor Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Let's see the dngs, otherwise this just looks like canon cm :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Germy1979 Posted August 10, 2013 Author Share Posted August 10, 2013 Okey dokey. Adobe Camera Raw. Exposure balance, black adjustment. Filmconvert with zero grain added. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Germy1979 Posted August 10, 2013 Author Share Posted August 10, 2013 Here is a link to the raw dng sequence from :32 guys. Thanks Julian for the Wetransfer tip:)https://www.wetransfer.com/downloads/b43eaf3a2721b02139f27ce1997d245020130810150128/e68052f9a1e8100b5e809cc7f5864f5a20130810150128/c553fb It's zipped at 1.37gb. Like I said, I appreciate the help guys. It's overexposed but that wasn't what I was looking at when I hit record. Have a look when you have time and let me know what you see. Andrew I will try Resolve lite. Did you guys notice the aliasing in the water as well? Also, you cannot see it in a single dng. The sequence has to be moving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurtinMinorKey Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Here is a link to the raw dng sequence from :32 guys. Thanks Julian for the Wetransfer tip:)https://www.wetransfer.com/downloads/b43eaf3a2721b02139f27ce1997d245020130810150128/e68052f9a1e8100b5e809cc7f5864f5a20130810150128/c553fb It's zipped at 1.37gb. Like I said, I appreciate the help guys. It's overexposed but that wasn't what I was looking at when I hit record. Have a look when you have time and let me know what you see. Andrew I will try Resolve lite. Did you guys notice the aliasing in the water as well? Lol, i think all we needed was a single .dng frame, but it will be more fun this way! I'll view these when I get home to Resolve. In the meantime, where did you do your down sample to 1080 from 2.5K? I didn't notice the aliasing before, buy now that I see it, I think it's a scaling issue. May be related to the strong noise pattern here. Either way, i'd wager something is funky in the workflow. Cool file share service btw. I get nearly 10MB/s on the download(at my office). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Germy1979 Posted August 10, 2013 Author Share Posted August 10, 2013 I'll view these when I get home. In the meantime, where did you do your down sample to 1080 from 2.5K? In After Effects. 80% transform. I also tried MB Instant HD and got the same results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Germy1979 Posted August 10, 2013 Author Share Posted August 10, 2013 Lol, i think all we needed was a single .dng frame, but it will be more fun this way! I'll view these when I get home to Resolve. In the meantime, where did you do your down sample to 1080 from 2.5K? I didn't notice the aliasing before, buy now that I see it, I think it's a scaling issue. May be related to the strong noise pattern here. Either way, i'd wager something is funky in the workflow. Cool file share service btw. I get nearly 10MB/s on the download(at my office).You won't see it on a single dng. It's like static and the footage has to be in motion. I'm really hoping I screwed something up here in the workflow, because it will be a pain in the ass making a round trip to BMD. Lol. On my last video, i had to use Neatvideo on every single shot. It was easy because it had large enough areas of a single color to sample and tune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurtinMinorKey Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 You won't see it on a single dng. It's like static and the footage has to be in motion. I'm really hoping I screwed something up here in the workflow, because it will be a pain in the ass making a round trip to BMD. Lol. On my last video, i had to use Neatvideo on every single shot. It was easy because it had large enough areas of a single color to sample and tune. II just meant that the single dng should suffice to see the waveform. I'll have your answer by 11:30PM EST. Have no fear, i can almost guarantee you are screwing something up. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Germy1979 Posted August 10, 2013 Author Share Posted August 10, 2013 Damn. I hope so.. You sound pretty confident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurtinMinorKey Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 So here is the original, waveform. This shows you were over exposed. And all the tree detail is compressed down. But this doesn't appear to have caused the noise in and of itself. The second picture shows the waveform when i drop the offset. This big gap in the middle(look at the RGB scopes in the upper right panel) shows the difference between your sky and trees. That dead space makes it tough to get an nice contrasty image. It looks like whatever program you used, tried to inject contrast in an automated fashion where there was none, and broke apart your image, causing noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Germy1979 Posted August 11, 2013 Author Share Posted August 11, 2013 Thank you! I'm using AE to grade, and ACR to import. I can do the switch to Resolve, however what bothers me now is that i was noy over exposed on the camera when i shot it. I was in film display mode and it was balanced decent. So i'm not sure what to do about that. Thank you for taking the time to do this Thank you! I'm using AE to grade, and ACR to import. I can do the switch to Resolve, however what bothers me now is that i was not over exposed on the camera when i shot it. I was in film display mode and it was balanced decent. So i'm not sure what to do about that. Thank you for taking the time to do this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurtinMinorKey Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Thank you! I'm using AE to grade, and ACR to import. I can do the switch to Resolve, however what bothers me now is that i was not over exposed on the camera when i shot it. I was in film display mode and it was balanced decent. So i'm not sure what to do about that. Thank you for taking the time to do this I always monitor in video and set peaking to 95%, then expose highlights to peak. Besides focus I ignore what the screen looks like because i found it to be misleading. But if you are going to monitor in film mode, it makes a lot more sense to start your grade with the BMD Film LUT, which is what I did when i graded your footage. And sometimes the DR of a scene is just too much for a camera. I've heard it said that you need 15-16 stops to capture all the information on a bright sunny day when strong shadows are present. So 13, although great, isn't going get you everything. *****I took down the clip i posted because it looks like you gave me the footage from 0:20 ish (not 0:32) by mistake, so my comment about the crop is irrelevant. Also, there wasn't too much noise to begin with @ 0:22 ***** It doesn't take much time, so if you want to post the right .dng sequence i'll do it again. But judging by the waveform, i'd still say my original hypothesis about the noise is correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Btw, didn't you get a copy of Resolve (full version) with your BMCC? With the lite version you are limited to 1080p. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Thank you! I'm using AE to grade, and ACR to import. I can do the switch to Resolve, however what bothers me now is that i was not over exposed on the camera when i shot it. I was in film display mode and it was balanced decent. So i'm not sure what to do about that. Thank you for taking the time to do this I don't think there is anything wrong with your exposure. This probably looks like what you got on your camera: [URL=http://www.eoshd.com/comments/gallery/image/670-exposure/][/URL] Look at the settings lower left - this is the BMD Film color space. I get the same waveform as HurtinMinorKey with the Rec709 setting (default I guess). I can't find anything weird in this clip either. But in the video this shot doesn't have the static so it might not be the best example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Germy1979 Posted August 11, 2013 Author Share Posted August 11, 2013 Here is one of the noisiest clips of the lot if you want to give it a shot... https://www.wetransfer.com/downloads/8c7cc50392625e2338e339703711c58820130811184356/5fd4e5d9fbf2ca68eae58fb35c415f9320130811184356/32624e Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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