They did it! Fuji GFX 100 first to bring pro video specs to medium format with 10bit 4K at 400Mbit, F-LOG and IBIS

[androidlad]

1 hour ago, Jordan Drake said:

First proper video I've shot on the GFX 100:

Didn't have much to knock this together, but the camera did a pretty respectable job, especially as the last two shots are at 2000 ISO. The whole video was shot in Eterna.

Unfortunately, the DR+ profile did not seem to be functioning properly, so blacks were quite crushed in the captured footage, unlike what I was seeing in my histogram and external monitor. I'm optimistic that this will be fixed when we get production cameras.
 

Nice work. Are you sure the crushed blacks wasn't caused by this?

Did you edit the GFX100 footage on Mac?

[Jordan Drake]

1 hour ago, androidlad said:

Nice work. Are you sure the crushed blacks wasn't caused by this?

Did you edit the GFX100 footage on Mac?

I was looking at that thread with a lot of interest, as I do cut our show on a Mac with FCPX. However, to test I stuck the card back in the GFX 100, and the footage played back with the crushed blacks in camera, and on an external monitor.

I'm not too concerned, it's very common for pre-production cameras to have issues like these. I'll update when I get a production unit shortly.

[photographer-at-large]

 

[androidlad]

Funny that they shoot film simulations at DR100 and complain about the limited dynamic range.

[Andrew Reid]

On 6/13/2019 at 2:42 PM, Jordan Drake said:

First proper video I've shot on the GFX 100:

Didn't have much to knock this together, but the camera did a pretty respectable job, especially as the last two shots are at 2000 ISO. The whole video was shot in Eterna.

Unfortunately, the DR+ profile did not seem to be functioning properly, so blacks were quite crushed in the captured footage, unlike what I was seeing in my histogram and external monitor. I'm optimistic that this will be fixed when we get production cameras.
 

Looking good.

If the GFX 100 has an Luma range option then that should fix the crushed blacks.

Software get very confused about that when it comes to the edit. You use one player or NLE and it's fine, use another and it's clipped all the DR away!

I remember when I first started editing H.265, with the Samsung NX1. The software support was so bad in the early days, it felt like the camera only had 8 stops dynamic range, when in the raw stills it did 13. Now, the support is much improved and the firmware added 16-235 option, along with a hack for 160Mbit (320Mbit in H.264 terms) and it feels like you're shooting ProRes with the damned thing now, glorious dynamic range and shadow recovery!

Did you get a chance to try F-LOG?

[Jordan Drake]

18 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Looking good.

If the GFX 100 has an Luma range option then that should fix the crushed blacks.

Software get very confused about that when it comes to the edit. You use one player or NLE and it's fine, use another and it's clipped all the DR away!

I remember when I first started editing H.265, with the Samsung NX1. The software support was so bad in the early days, it felt like the camera only had 8 stops dynamic range, when in the raw stills it did 13. Now, the support is much improved and the firmware added 16-235 option, along with a hack for 160Mbit (320Mbit in H.264 terms) and it feels like you're shooting ProRes with the damned thing now, glorious dynamic range and shadow recovery!

Did you get a chance to try F-LOG?

No Luma range option (yet, firmware was still very early). I'll dig into this deeper if the problem still rears its head on the production models.

F-Log was functional (you can see an uninspired example of it in our Japan field test episode), but I was advised that Eterna was much closer to being final, so I stuck with that. It helps that I love Eterna for quick turnaround.

[thephoenix]

raw recording ? maybe soon

https://www.fujirumors.com/fujifilm-manager-says-fujifilm-gfx-100-enjoys-strong-pre-orders-and-video-raw-recording-may-come-via-firmware-update/

[sanveer]

On 6/19/2019 at 9:25 AM, Jordan Drake said:

No Luma range option (yet, firmware was still very early). I'll dig into this deeper if the problem still rears its head on the production models.

F-Log was functional (you can see an uninspired example of it in our Japan field test episode), but I was advised that Eterna was much closer to being final, so I stuck with that. It helps that I love Eterna for quick turnaround.

Hi Jordon, since you guys have the camera, I thought I should ask you.

Someone in another thread (or this one?) was saying the rolling shutter is terrible (for video?) on the Fuji. But I vaguely remember that Fuji has a quick readout mode or feature built into the sensor, whose sole purpose is to control rolling shutter. Could you comment on the rolling shutter, from your use with with camera?

Thanks 

[Nikkor]

3 hours ago, thephoenix said:

raw recording ? maybe soon

https://www.fujirumors.com/fujifilm-manager-says-fujifilm-gfx-100-enjoys-strong-pre-orders-and-video-raw-recording-may-come-via-firmware-update/

Oh god, I will have to sell a kidney.

[DBounce]

2 hours ago, sanveer said:

Hi Jordon, since you guys have the camera, I thought I should ask you.

Someone in another thread (or this one?) was saying the rolling shutter is terrible (for video?) on the Fuji. But I vaguely remember that Fuji has a quick readout mode or feature built into the sensor, whose sole purpose is to control rolling shutter. Could you comment on the rolling shutter, from your use with with camera?

Thanks 

It strange to me how most are giving a pass to the abysmal rolling shutter of the GFX 100, while condemning the EOS R for it's rolling shutter, which honestly isn't so bad as to make it unusable. To my eyes the jiggly wiggly rolling shutter of the GFX 100 really does limit it's usage to still work only. It certainly is nothing I would want to hand hold, or use on a gimbal. Just watch the below video. And if you can say this is acceptable you have revealed your extreme anti-canon bias. Because next to the GFX 100 the Canon is class leading. 

 

I think the GFX 100 is ground breaking for a MF camera, but despite an otherwise pleasing image, it is a poor choice for video work.

[thebrothersthre3]

Yeah I agree. Its the combination of many issues which makes people hate on the Canon. If there was no crop in 4k or at least less of a crop I don't think people would mind as much. Fuji at least gave us 10 bit and no crop.

I certainly wouldn't buy the GFX100 for video work.

[Andrew Reid]

Oh man, Fuji is doing 4K video from a 100MP sensor. Canon is doing a cropped readout from a 30MP sensor. There are no excuses for high rolling shutter on the EOS R.

Also, the video above @DBounce is an utterly useless waste of 10 minutes with the camera and proves nothing. I can't find the rolling shutter test in it, maybe you can suggest the timestamp to save us having to watch the hole 10 minutes of badly shot focus pulsing.

[BTM_Pix]

The rolling shutter problems for electronic shutter for stills are discussed at this starting point that I've linked in the DPReview video (I don't know what shutter speed is being used though) but if you play on to the video section then @Jordan Drake confirms its there in video but obviously nowhere near as bad as it is in stills and has included a short moving sample.

I have to say that in other videos I've seen the warping from the IBIS was far more disconcerting (as it was to me on the XH-1) but all of this stuff is situational so I'd reserve judgement until I've had experience of it myself and its also worth bearing in mind that all of the samples seen thus far have been with pre-production firmware.

 

[Andrew Reid]

Indeed, it's early days yet, innit. I don't have any real conclusion from watching the sample footage released so far, which mostly looks fine.

Pixel binning is in action for video on this camera which usually results in better rolling shutter than a full pixel readout. The total sensor resolution is almost irrelevant if it is only pixel binning what it needs for a 3840 x 2160 frame, but it might be doing clever stuff and averaging, summing or what have you... which would require sampling more of the total 100 megapixel sensor than more basic binning methods. Still a lot faster than reading out every pixel though like it does in e-shutter mode for 100MP stills.

Maybe there is a spec sheet for the Sony sensor somewhere which would tell us the clock-speed, readout speed, etc. @androidlad?

If RS make it unsuitable for certain types of work, to write it off for video altogether would be a bit churlish because of that, as it's a medium format 4K camera and what alternatives are there? We can put the Kipon "BavEyes" on a Nikon Z6 and get the medium format look from 6x7 and Pentax 645 lenses, but you can't put a full frame lens on an oversized sensor and see further into the glorious edges and swirly bokeh.

Full frame glass on the GFX 100 will be unique, as it is for the 50S.

Even if rolling shutter is as bad as an A6400, once prices come down on used market to around £5k this GFX 100 would replace an awful lot of my stills and video gear for image quality and lens rendering.

Until then, Fuji is doing a great job giving us 4K bargains... X-T3, X-T30, X-E3, X-Pro 2, the list goes on! Glorious stuff.

[sanveer]

5 hours ago, DBounce said:

It strange to me how most are giving a pass to the abysmal rolling shutter of the GFX 100, while condemning the EOS R for it's rolling shutter, which honestly isn't so bad as to make it unusable. To my eyes the jiggly wiggly rolling shutter of the GFX 100 really does limit it's usage to still work only. It certainly is nothing I would want to hand hold, or use on a gimbal. Just watch the below video. And if you can say this is acceptable you have revealed your extreme anti-canon bias. Because next to the GFX 100 the Canon is class leading. 

Is the rolling shutter (RS) worse than other MF cameras and much worse than the 50MP cameras around? Is there a rating for the RS somewhere? 

That videos doesn't seem to show much. Or atleast I could make out much from watching it. Maybe it needs actually clinical testing.

I clearly remember reading that the Fuji sensor was specialised for controlling rolling shutter. Maybe we wait for early buyers or testers with the final firmware version (market ready version). 

[Jordan Drake]

9 hours ago, sanveer said:

Hi Jordon, since you guys have the camera, I thought I should ask you.

Someone in another thread (or this one?) was saying the rolling shutter is terrible (for video?) on the Fuji. But I vaguely remember that Fuji has a quick readout mode or feature built into the sensor, whose sole purpose is to control rolling shutter. Could you comment on the rolling shutter, from your use with with camera?

Thanks 

I only had the camera for a few hours, and did not have other cameras handy to compare it to (aside from the X-T3, which has excellent readout speed). I'll get full numbers eventually, but it seemed quite similar to a Sony a6400. This IBIS system helps control some of those micro-wobbles, but it's not a camera I'd use for fast paced handheld work. I certainly wouldn't find it "unusable" for quite a few types of shoots. Nor, however, would I make this my primary video camera.

[androidlad]

I was wrong about the readout methods on GFX100.

In 4K, it supersamples the full width of 11604 pixels, and vertically line-skips 2/3 from 6527 pixels, resulting in a final bayer of 11604 x 4352 pixels at 11bit, then it's downscaled to 4K UHD/DCI.

4K rolling shutter is around 30ms.

Stills mode electronic shutter scan rate is 1/6s.

[Andrew Reid]

1 minute ago, androidlad said:

final bayer of 11604 x 4352 pixels at 11bit

4K rolling shutter is around 30ms.

Wow that is a big image. Amazing it even achieves 30ms scan rate with such a hefty frame.

That would be in a raw buffer inside the camera as well. Imagine a hack?!!

[thebrothersthre3]

30ms is not too  bad A6400 is still worse 

[Andrew Reid]

It really depends on what you're shooting. Quite often you can get away with 30ms, even for handheld shooting. The A6400 didn't set my pants on fire not so much as it failed to fix the weak rolling shutter performance of that line-up, rather as it's basically a retrograde step from the A6500 for not much less money and the lack of creativity that went into the design of that camera range is quite something. I even prefer the handling and styling of the NEX 7 from years back. Much sexier.

If we were to grade cameras only by rolling shutter, NX1 would have been back of the pack as well but as we know, it's a wonderful creative tool and very well liked.

Taken as a whole package I think Fuji GFX 100 is definitely a good option for cinematic amazing images (I hesitate to say "work" as there are much more boring and practical options for pro video work)... And cinematic is all I care about here