They did it! Fuji GFX 100 first to bring pro video specs to medium format with 10bit 4K at 400Mbit, F-LOG and IBIS

[thebrothersthre3]

Yeah the NX1 had the same readout 30ms, if that is in fact the Fuji GFX 100 readout. 

The rolling shutter is one of the reasons I didn't get the NX1, though its really good in 1080.

But yeah it depends what you are shooting. 

[DBounce]

Too bad Fuji didn’t allow the IBIS to lock when in video mode like Nikon did with their Z series cameras.

[sanveer]

8 hours ago, Jordan Drake said:

I only had the camera for a few hours, and did not have other cameras handy to compare it to (aside from the X-T3, which has excellent readout speed). I'll get full numbers eventually, but it seemed quite similar to a Sony a6400. This IBIS system helps control some of those micro-wobbles, but it's not a camera I'd use for fast paced handheld work. I certainly wouldn't find it "unusable" for quite a few types of shoots. Nor, however, would I make this my primary video camera.

Thanks for the reply Jordon. 

 

 

7 hours ago, androidlad said:

I was wrong about the readout methods on GFX100.

In 4K, it supersamples the full width of 11604 pixels, and vertically line-skips 2/3 from 6527 pixels, resulting in a final bayer of 11604 x 4352 pixels at 11bit, then it's downscaled to 4K UHD/DCI.

4K rolling shutter is around 30ms.

Stills mode electronic shutter scan rate is 1/6s.

So, it doesn't have any other mode, for shooting 4k and other video resolutions, I am guessing? Also, what exactly were Fuji saying wrt to the mode or method of controlling rolling shutter? Any idea of the rolling shutter on other MF Sensors/Cameras? 

[frontfocus]

4 hours ago, DBounce said:

Too bad Fuji didn’t allow the IBIS to lock when in video mode like Nikon did with their Z series cameras.

Just switch it off?

[ntblowz]

1 minute ago, frontfocus said:

Just switch it off?

IBIS is always floating 

[frontfocus]

Just now, ntblowz said:

IBIS is always floating 

It is, but it‘s floating in a static position if it‘s off. Same as if it‘s locked

[sanveer]

I guess Fuji could have improved RS by having a (massive) crop for the 4k (8.3-8.9MP necessary for 4k or DCI 4k) amounting a little over 3x Crop on the 100MP Medium Format sensor. Which would get it to an APS-C Frame size (?)

 

The article below has a video shot on a much larger camera (Hasselblad H6D-100c), which probably has rolling shutter even in a still frame. The video the NFS article mentions, has rolling shutter, which is MASSIVE, and it shows in a frame which hardly even has movement. 

 

https://nofilmschool.com/indie-imax-medium-format-video-hasselblads-h6d-100c

 

To be fair to Fuji, it probably has less rolling shutter than most MF cameras around (this is for the Hasselblad 1XD "With a sensor readout speed of 300ms, you will notice a strong rolling shutter effect with quickly moving objects" this is from https://fstoppers.com/originals/hands-hasselblad-x1d-50cs-new-firmware-adds-electronic-shutter-and-multiple-193832). It may even has The Least rolling shutter on any MF camera.

 

In the end, it probably means that if you want a shoot something on a sensor much larger than full frame (1.7 times to be exact), and if that's the aesthetic or look you're after (along with 10-bit video right now, and maybe RAW with a firmware later), and you also want absolutely stellar photos, in a single package at 10k, you probably won't get it anywhere else. Ass IBIS and you probably get something almost no camera on the market can offer right now, or for a while to come. 

 

[thebrothersthre3]

Its definitely a great package if you want or need MF

300ms is insane lol 

An option to crop in 3x and get less RS would be cool tho, I mean why not. 

[frontfocus]

1 hour ago, sanveer said:

I guess Fuji could have improved RS by having a (massive) crop for the 4k (8.3-8.9MP necessary for 4k or DCI 4k) amounting a little over 3x Crop on the 100MP Medium Format sensor. Which would get it to an APS-C Frame size (?)

no, at APS-C/S35 size it's still an 26MP (3:2 format) X-T3 sensor. To get a 1:1 4K pixel readout it needs to crop past micro four thirds to something close to 1.1" sensor. That's a crop factor of over 3. Would be great for wide angle shots 
That's probably what canon would do ?
 

[androidlad]

4 hours ago, sanveer said:

So, it doesn't have any other mode, for shooting 4k and other video resolutions, I am guessing? Also, what exactly were Fuji saying wrt to the mode or method of controlling rolling shutter? Any idea of the rolling shutter on other MF Sensors/Cameras? 

On a Sony sensor, the only ways to reduce rolling shutter is to readout fewer pixels (especially vertically) and drop readout bitdepth.

[frontfocus]

1 hour ago, sanveer said:

In the end, it probably means that if you want a shoot something on a sensor much larger than full frame (1.7 times to be exact), and if that's the aesthetic or look you're after (along with 10-bit video right now, and maybe RAW with a firmware later), and you also want absolutely stellar photos, in a single package at 10k, you probably won't get it anywhere else. Ass IBIS and you probably get something almost no camera on the market can offer right now, or for a while to come. 

I think the GFX100 sensor isn't really designed to handle video as it's highest priority (if it was, it probably wouldn't be 100MP), but stills. And still it seems it's a great option for those looking to go beyond full frame and try something special. That the GFX100 does 10bit internal at bitrates of up to 400Mbit puts it up there with some of the best full frame cameras, while reading over 50MP. That's some crazy stuff. 50MP at 30 frames a second, that's 1500MP read and processed every second (adc drop precision to do it and that decreases processing power needed, it's still immense though.) 

[sanveer]

39 minutes ago, androidlad said:

On a Sony sensor, the only ways to reduce rolling shutter is to readout fewer pixels (especially vertically) and drop readout bitdepth.

10-bit wouldn't be so bad, even if it were cropped 3x. Though, suddenly it wouldn't have the MF (video) look anymore.

Also, @androidlad is there a possibility for 4k RAW video, like it is being rumoured, lately? 

 

 

48 minutes ago, frontfocus said:

no, at APS-C/S35 size it's still an 26MP (3:2 format) X-T3 sensor. To get a 1:1 4K pixel readout it needs to crop past micro four thirds to something close to 1.1" sensor. That's a crop factor of over 3. Would be great for wide angle shots 
That's probably what canon would do ?
 

You're confusing crop with pixel and sensor size. FF is almost 4 times the size of M43. And the crop is approximately 2 times. 

[frontfocus]

47 minutes ago, sanveer said:

You're confusing crop with pixel and sensor size. FF is almost 4 times the size of M43. And the crop is approximately 2 times. 

I am not. If pixelsize is the same, bigger sensors have higher pixel amounts. with the 3.91 micron pixels there is the 26MP APS-C sensor, the 100MP 44x33mm medium format sensor and the 150MP bigger medium format sensor. A 60MP full frame sensor seems to be in the pipeline. And if you crop one of those sensors to the size of one other, it has exactly the same pixel count. 

And yes, crop factor as linear factor is the square root of the area. Anyway, no matter how you calculate it (horrizontal pixel amount, area, pixel size) you end up with a crop factor that is close to 3x. (3x means 9 times the area). 
 

But let's do the math. The sensor is 44x33mm. In 16:9 that's 44x25.75mm On that surface there are 11648x6552 pixels out of which 2/3 are actively read out, ending up at 50.9MP (but that number doesn't matter, since we are only interested in the area). 
So we are downscaling from 76.3MP and 1133mm^2 to whatever size can hold 3840x2160pixels. (8.3MP). That's easy, 76.3/8.3=9.2x

So the area from a 4K crop would be 1/9 of the used area. As I said crop factor is the root of the area so we end up at ~3, again, the value I guessed. Looking at wikipedias list of sensor sizes, we can find two listings for 2.4x crop. Why 2.4x? Because the GFX already has a crop of 0.78x and thus we have to multiply. (the crop is smaller in 16:9 aspect ratio, but let's neglect that). One of those is the 1.1" Sony IMX253 Sensor. 

[androidlad]

1 hour ago, frontfocus said:

I am not. If pixelsize is the same, bigger sensors have higher pixel amounts. with the 3.91 micron pixels there is the 26MP APS-C sensor, the 100MP 44x33mm medium format sensor and the 150MP bigger medium format sensor. A 60MP full frame sensor seems to be in the pipeline. And if you crop one of those sensors to the size of one other, it has exactly the same pixel count. 

The pixel size is actually 3.76um, the 60MP FF sensor, IMX455, is already being sold to third parties, including Zcam E2 F8, Nikon and Pentax.

[frontfocus]

19 minutes ago, androidlad said:

The pixel size is actually 3.76um, the 60MP FF sensor, IMX455, is already being sold to third parties, including Zcam E2 F8, Nikon and Pentax.

Yeah, 3.76um that's right, had the old 24MP APS-C Pixel in mind, which was 3.91um. 
I suspected that the IMX455 would make it into either a new Nikon Z (or D850 successor), Pentax K1 or Sony A7RIV camera, but haven't heard any rumors about it. Z Cam E2 F8 is already introduced, that's interesting. 

[DBounce]

While it doesn't have the flares and ovals bokeh, IMO, video shot with the GFX-100 looks anamorphic. It's sharp edge to edge... clean. Almost like a modern anamorphic. Yet has an aesthetic that smaller sensor are missing. This must be to do with the "medium" format look. I feel it looks quite cinematic.

What are your thoughts? 

 

[webrunner5]

That is some beautiful footage no doubt. I wonder how much is enhanced by the editing? Would be nice to see OOC footage. Looks like a special camera though. That footage is about as good as it gets for the money.

[androidlad]

5 hours ago, DBounce said:

While it doesn't have the flares and ovals bokeh, IMO, video shot with the GFX-100 looks anamorphic. It's sharp edge to edge... clean. Almost like a modern anamorphic. Yet has an aesthetic that smaller sensor are missing. This must be to do with the "medium" format look. I feel it looks quite cinematic.

What are your thoughts? 

 

It's all to do with FOV. A 50mm 2x anamorphic lens has a horizontal FOV equivalent of a 25mm spherical lens.

On a GFX, a 63mm lens has an FOV equivalent of a 50mm lens.

Some people call it "grandness".

[DBounce]

There is a panoramic mode (65:24) on the GFX-100, I wonder if this is usable in video or reserved only for stills. And if not, is it something that could be made available in a firmware update?

[androidlad]

Fuji only does 17:9 and 16:9 in video, but this may change in the future.