Help The Camera Manufacturers Make Better Cameras: Part 2

[newfoundmass]

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

Biggest surprise of the poll so far is this.

Had expected much more Sony users.

I feel like Sony users are really vocal, and they've gained dominance with bloggers because of the AF, but I don't see a lot of their mirrorless cameras being used professionally, at least here in the US. I do a lot of event shooting though, and they're not ideal for that given the recording limits, so that may be why. I still see Canon at events more than I see Sony though, which is crazy to me from a usefulness standpoint. 

[Thpriest]

Being able to punch in to check focus whilst filming is what I miss the most on the GH5 (coming from a C100). And internal NDs.

[Andrew Reid]

17 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

I feel like Sony users are really vocal, and they've gained dominance with bloggers because of the AF, but I don't see a lot of their mirrorless cameras being used professionally, at least here in the US. I do a lot of event shooting though, and they're not ideal for that given the recording limits, so that may be why. I still see Canon at events more than I see Sony though, which is crazy to me from a usefulness standpoint. 

Do you think Sony's sales have been overstated then?

Maybe they are not quite as dominant as we think.

Poll would suggest EOSHD community is far more of a Panasonic and even Fuji crowd.

It really is very surprising more EOSHD forum users answering this poll use a Pro Camcorder than A7 III!!

Maybe results will change given more time and exposure. Might put the poll on a front page blog post and give it more attention.

[BTM_Pix]

25 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Might put the poll on a front page blog post and give it more attention.

Roll it into a tweet asking what cameras the Apple pitch fork mob that are currently responding to your tweet about the new Mac Pro are actually going to be using to feed it with content  

 

[newfoundmass]

34 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Do you think Sony's sales have been overstated then?

Maybe they are not quite as dominant as we think.

I don't know if their sales numbers have been overstated, but I do wonder if they partially appeal to a different market than a lot of the others do. 

Most of the Sony mirrorless shooters I know are really plugged into the YouTube world, as opposed to the corporate/event/commercial world that I shoot in. The rest are your indie filmmakers and some one person crew journalists. I do wonder if your numbers indicate that the latter are the types that post here, as opposed to the YouTube content creators. 

When I shoot weddings, or when the events I shoot also hire a photographer, most of them shoot Canon, Nikon, and Fuji, in that order. I've definitely seen a real uptick in Fuji users these last couple of years, especially around the time the XT-2 came out. I don't know if Canon's and Nikon's FF mirrorless entries have hurt that, I'll know more as work picks up this summer and I see what people are shooting with, but Fuji hit a real sweet spot I think with capabilities, size, and price.

I do wonder though if we overestimate Sony's dominance in the professional, and even the hardcore hobbyist space.

When you really think about it Sony really does cater to that YouTube crowd a lot. The Axxxx series have come out pretty regularly, when you compare it to their competitors. In the time Panasonic released their two popular vlogging cameras, the G7 and the G85, Sony has released 4 or so Axxxx series cameras that became popular with that crowd. And I very rarely see anyone using those cameras outside of YouTube stuff. 

That's all, of course, speculative and based on my experiences though! 

[Mako Sports]

3 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

That's all, of course, speculative and based on my experiences though! 

In my little group of sports videographer friends (theres about a 100 of us that talk with each other - we are all between the ages of 16 - 25 so younger upcoming "new media" crowd) We are split about down the middle with half using the GH5 and the other half doing AXXX line or A7sii/A7iii. 

[KnightsFan]

Most of my projects have been been involved in one way or another with local colleges. There are no Sony mirrorless cameras at the university equipment rooms I've frequented, just Canon DSLRs, C100's, and Blackmagics. Students, however, seem to primarily own Sony mirrorless cameras. A6500, A7, etc. FWIW, I also shot some whitewater sports for fun last year and saw primarily Nikon DSLRs among the pros there. No one had mirrorless cameras except me.

So the assessment that Sony is primarily used by the "Youtube crowd" is largely accurate in my limited experience.

[Parker]

I primarily shoot a lot of talking head/short marketing pieces for universities, businesses, and city organizations. 

For the majority of my shoots I still use my beloved bitrate-hacked Samsung NX1 (with a speedbooster for that FF look) as an A cam, and the ever trusty GH5 as a b cam and for shooting lots of handheld b-roll. 

I really need extra DR though, especially on the NX1. A company I'm contracted with just ordered in an S1 at my request, so I'm very excited to see what 14 stops of dynamic range looks like in real-world use for my needs going forward.

I'm keeping an eye out on what fuji is going to do with the XH-2, and excited to see what happens with the new S1H as well. I'm sure the fabled A7siii will be incredible on paper, but my work has an A7sii that sits unused and gathering dust in a cupboard in favor of the GH5, and I have always found Sony cameras soulless and fiddly to use.

I get that we all want the perfect camera, but I also understand manufacturers' seeming reluctance to provide it, since many of us would never have to upgrade once we finally get something that ticks all the boxes. 

[Amazeballs]

I was surprised as well the GH5 is so dominant here and A7 is not as much. 

[Mattias Burling]

6 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Do you think Sony's sales have been overstated then?

Maybe they are not quite as dominant as we think.

When ever we see a Sony sales figure article I read the fine print. It's always a comparison between FF mirrorless or FF only. And 9 out of 10 times it's measured over just a few weeks after a Sony release.

As a whole they are still quite small. 

It might be a shrinking market but DSLRs still outsell mirrorless. 

[kye]

Another data point, slightly OT here, is that I spent 5 weeks in Italy last year and almost every camera I saw from tourists and holidaymakers was a Nikon super-zoom fixed lens model of some kind.  I saw a few Nikon DSLRs and a few Canon DSLRs, and of course a zillion smartphones.  

What I really took from that was that there are pockets of users and they can be quite insulated from each other.

[Mattias Burling]

49 minutes ago, Parker said:

I get that we all want the perfect camera, but I also understand manufacturers' seeming reluctance to provide it, since many of us would never have to upgrade once we finally get something that ticks all the boxes. 

What's funny is that if we look back at these wish lists from just a few years ago it's all been ticked, and then some. But we are quick to raise the bar and the marketing departments know it

[kye]

2 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

What's funny is that if we look back at these wish lists from just a few years ago it's all been ticked, and then some. But we are quick to raise the bar and the marketing departments know it

Absolutely.  I also think that people don't know they want something until it is invented or becomes feasible.  

For example, when 1080p was released no-one turned around and said "I want a camera that can record four times the resolution of FullHD, I want it to be the size of a match-box, have a screen on the back and also one on the front so I can film myself and see if I'm in frame, and I want it to do magic so that it looks like a professional steadicam operator is holding it, and I absolutely need all these features and will accept nothing less because I'm going to be using it to make my own TV show starring me and I'll get paid by doing advertisements for brands that reach out to me, not me to them".  

Now it exists and people are criticising it because the bitrate isn't high enough.

[newfoundmass]

2 minutes ago, kye said:

Absolutely.  I also think that people don't know they want something until it is invented or becomes feasible.  

For example, when 1080p was released no-one turned around and said "I want a camera that can record four times the resolution of FullHD, I want it to be the size of a match-box, have a screen on the back and also one on the front so I can film myself and see if I'm in frame, and I want it to do magic so that it looks like a professional steadicam operator is holding it, and I absolutely need all these features and will accept nothing less because I'm going to be using it to make my own TV show starring me and I'll get paid by doing advertisements for brands that reach out to me, not me to them".  

Now it exists and people are criticising it because the bitrate isn't high enough.

Too true! We're so spoiled! 

[Mako Sports]

4 hours ago, KnightsFan said:

Most of my projects have been been involved in one way or another with local colleges. There are no Sony mirrorless cameras at the university equipment rooms I've frequented, just Canon DSLRs, C100's, and Blackmagics. Students, however, seem to primarily own Sony mirrorless cameras. A6500, A7, etc. FWIW, I also shot some whitewater sports for fun last year and saw primarily Nikon DSLRs among the pros there. No one had mirrorless cameras except me.

So the assessment that Sony is primarily used by the "Youtube crowd" is largely accurate in my limited experience.

My local community college has Canon XA30s for the TV production and OG Black Magic Cinema cameras (Polaroid looking body) for the cinematography students. 

[Andrew Reid]

4 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

What's funny is that if we look back at these wish lists from just a few years ago it's all been ticked, and then some. But we are quick to raise the bar and the marketing departments know it

Couldn't agree more! Now the bar has been raised, it really is time for internal BRAW, ProRes RAW, ProRes 422 and internal NDs.

First one to bring all that to a full frame mirrorless camera will sell a boat load if it's priced right.

The internal ND should also have an Auto mode like FS5. None of that old filter wheel mechanical stuff.

Does anyone know the patent status of that material?

11 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Roll it into a tweet asking what cameras the Apple pitch fork mob that are currently responding to your tweet about the new Mac Pro are actually going to be using to feed it with content  

 

Maybe there is a secret market out there where a bloke sits in a room with a RED Monstro 8K VV and makes a TON of money shooting 8K stock footage of plants, birds and the occasional duck??!

[KC Kelly]

4 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Maybe there is a secret market out there where a bloke sits in a room with a RED Monstro 8K VV and makes a TON of money shooting 8K stock footage of plants, birds and the occasional duck??!

Don't forget about cats!