Canon 50D RAW video bubble never materialized.

[Damphousse]

In the poll if you bought your 50D in a package deal, as best you can, estimate the portion that was due just to the Canon 50D body sans grips, lenses, flashes, etc.

 

I picked up a Canon 50D a couple of weeks ago for a little more than $350.  That was about the price I heard being kicked around months ago.   The question I have is was there ever a bubble post ML RAW announcement?  When I check eBay in the United States there seems to be a continuous unbroken stream of Canon 50Ds offered for sale.  Most of the body only sales can be had for $330-$430.

 

I also notice a lot of the 50Ds are sold with accessories.  The battery grip seems popular.  Rather puzzlingly kit lenses seem popular as well.  I always preferred to get the consumer line of cameras and use the money I saved to get primes and L glass.  It's strange to me that so many people opt for semi-pro bodies and things like battery grips and then skimp on the lens.

 

So is the lack of the predicted 50D bubble an indication of how niche video on DSLRs and particularly RAW on DSLRs is?

 

 

[Nikkor]

It's niche but it's specially niche when you compare it to people in general only taking photos with DSLR. If there ever was a bubble the 70D announcment killed the price for the 50D completle.

[Damphousse]

It's niche but it's specially niche when you compare it to people in general only taking photos with DSLR. If there ever was a bubble the 70D announcment killed the price for the 50D completle.

 

Makes sense.  Thank you Canon.

 

I was incredulous about how many people would actually go out and invest over $500 in a 5 year old body AND $130 in a single Compact Flash card.  Even at $350 for a 50D body the price of entry for the average hobbyist is a bit stiff.  Looks like HD RAW is there for the taking if someone has the dough.

 

And your comment about the size of the Video DSLR market to the pure photo market is dead on.  I think we often lose site of that in our little world.

[Andrew Reid]

The most unimportant thing you need to be aware of as a filmmaker is how small the niche for your camera is, or whatever. Why does it matter?

[Nikkor]

It only matters to used prizes of 50d and maybe to the attention that the camera makers give to filmmaker needs. I guess if raw shooting were mainstream

 or anamorphic lenses were selling hundred of thousands, every shitty camera would have one.

[Andrew Reid]

Most people are shooting raw on the 5D Mark III, it's far superior, but that doesn't mean to say 50D owners should sell up. I mean look at what you're getting for the money - an insane amount.

[Nikkor]

Nobody is saying it's not great.

[Andrew Reid]

It's good a price bubble hasn't formed.

 

Look at the Iscorama.

 

Canon ship DSLRs in their millions. It'd have to be a very BIG niche to have an affect on eBay prices of DSLRs wouldn't it!?

 

Magic Lantern and raw video are bigger than you think and more important than you assume in the greater scheme of things, but they are not going to affect the price of cameras.

[CRFilms]

I was watching closely and after the raw announcement the cams went up around $50-100 for a month or so and now they're back to the same prices.  The 50D is too old and the raw capabilities too limited vs other Canon cams for it to get too sought after, IMHO.

 

It definitely would be a great raw starter cam for the money.  Get it, do some tests and figure out your workflow, then jump to BMD or Kine, etc..., once you've mastered it.  Personally I don't trust hacks anymore.  I had my GH2 freeze on a critical moment on a live shoot I did the other day, and that's it, no more hacks, that includes ML.

 

I'm either going to get BMCC MFT or Pocket cam with external recorder for safety.

[Andrew Reid]

No hack or uncompressed raw camera is suitable for live event shooting. You'd be nuts to shoot hours and hours of footage per day on a BMCC because of the storage requirements, and the possible time I'd take to convert or grade it.

 

On the issue of reliability, over at BMCC User a guy says he had his SSD fail after smashing up a car in the most vital scene in his movie, lost all the footage and may have to do an expensive reshoot.

 

Makes a GH2 freezing seem insignificant doesn't it?

[CRFilms]

Also why you shouldn't record an expensive scene with ONE camera.

 

I may just go for the Pocket cam with external recorder and record both simultaneously for the added safety.  Pocket Cam looks like the cheapest new cam that outputs true uncompressed HDMI.  A ninja or BMD shuttle recording to ProRes would be a decent alternative, price wise, and of course I wouldn't shoot hours of RAW.

[Nikkor]

Magic Lantern and raw video are bigger than you think and more important than you assume in the greater scheme of things, but they are not going to affect the price of cameras.

ML Raw is important, specially in our eyes because it makes every camera that does not have it look useless.

But letus put it into perspective: Magic Lantern 2.3 (the base you need to make ML work) has been downloaded 500.000 during a 1year 1 month period, and that's not unique users and includes all the cameras long before RAW video came availiable. I have downloaded it at least 10 times because I always loose track of the files. 

I couldn't check how many times the last raw build for the 5d mkiii was downloaded but the thread on ML that links to the updates has a total of 34.000 views, thats total views, the total amount of users could be 3000 and I would be still exagerating.

The 50d raw module updates gets an average a 50 downloads.

[Julian]

Good news on the 50D front, Mosaic Engineering is working on a filter:

http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5586.msg68359#msg68359

[lionel]

I think that this camera is in the same category as the BMPCC. It's raw image is very filmic. Very 16mm like and in many ways unique. At least very good for internet type productions that you can devote time to.

[Damphousse]

The most unimportant thing you need to be aware of as a filmmaker is how small the niche for your camera is, or whatever. Why does it matter?

 

Supply and demand set the price in the market.  Having a realistic idea of both will save you money and pain.  Frankly in this instance knowing the size of the niche in relation to the size of supply was one of the most important things a filmmaker on a budget could know.

 

There are still articles on the web urging people to rush out and pay a premium for a 50D "before they are gone."

 

 

Third, we now fully expect to see the 50D skyrocket in value on the used market.

 

 

http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/28/canon-50d-gains-video-recording-through-magic-lantern-raw-hack/

 

 

You won’t be able to find any Canon 50Ds for sale new, but they seem to be running around $400-$600 on eBay, so if you were interested in getting one, now might be the best time!

 

http://nofilmschool.com/2013/05/canon-50d-hacked-raw-video-magic-lantern/

 

 

While I’m sure 50Ds will be going up in price over the next few days/weeks, there should be plenty of Mark IIs around at reasonable prices.

 

 

http://nofilmschool.com/2013/05/canon-50d-hacked-raw-video-magic-lantern/

 

 

In the past I was a student of the financial markets and while I can definitely tell you there was a massive under current of malfeasance on Wall St there was also a lot of garden variety incompetence.  The people weren't always lying.  A large chunk of the time they actually believed their own propaganda.

 

I just thought the articles and the subsequent price action yielded a lot of useful information.  There will be other technological break throughs and other articles written.  Hopefully though examination of the 50D RAW video saga will help avoid irrational exuberance in the future.

 

 

Good news on the 50D front, Mosaic Engineering is working on a filter:

http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5586.msg68359#msg68359

 

 

Awesome.  I'm sure if the market wasn't at least a certain size they wouldn't bother.

 

 

It only matters to used prices of 50d and maybe to the attention that the camera makers give to filmmaker needs.

 

Exactly.  He gets it.

 

The interesting thing is forums like this one are full of people asking why doesn't Canon or Nikon do this or that.  Well if the video DSLR niche is tiny compared to the photo DSLR market you can expect plenty of foot dragging particularly in the more affordable consumer models.  Knowing the size of your niche will ultimately help you make a decision about whether you think a manufacturer will be responsive to your needs or not.

 

Frankly as is the case with companies like Apple if some off label niche use of their device occurs and it starts getting a lot of traction they actually at times take steps to shut it down.  So sometimes being small and obscure can work in your favor.  Either way I just can't see how knowing the size of your niche is useless.

[Andrew Reid]

The interesting thing is forums like this one are full of people asking why doesn't Canon or Nikon do this or that.  Well if the video DSLR niche is tiny compared to the photo DSLR market you can expect plenty of foot dragging particularly in the more affordable consumer models.

 

A niche to Canon and Nikon could be another company's entire market share. The big corporations lose sight of the direction the market is heading in, by ignoring niches.

 

Sometimes a niche is small because the market is heading away from it, sometimes it is small because it's young and the market is drifting towards it.

 

The trick is to find out if it is growing or not.

 

Actually most manufacturers have been very reactive to our niche, whatever the size, and added 24p for example very quickly. So it can't be that small.

[Nikkor]

I was thinking more about people willing to deal with raw, anyway it will be the natural way because editing crappy videos and uplaod them to youtube is done better with mobile phones.

 

I wonder how many people actually buy a gh3 for stills, there is definitly market for video.

[Ernie Prieto]

Sorry to being back an old topic, but I bought mine used from a photographer I work with (I'm basically the video department for her wedding photography company) for $200 with battery grip and 2 batteries (well 3 once she finds the canon one).

That plus $115 for the CF card (gonna need to order another soon) and $75 for an anamorphic lens (well there was the first one I dropped and broke but let's not talk about that), and I'm looking at under $400 for an entry into RAW video - not bad at all IMO.