Raw video on the Canon 7D - Super 35mm raw for under $1000

[PANDETTA]

so what is the resolution of this video? Can you record continuously at that resolution, and can we monitor and frame the shot during recording via the on board LCD or external monitors?

[Andrew Reid]

You forgot that the 7D has audio recording. Another advantage over the 50D . . .

 

Latest I heard raw video mode WAV audio was still disabled in Magic Lantern due to sync issues.

[A.i. Wintermute]

While RAW is a neat trick, in reality who is going to shoot a whole movie in RAW?  Now give me PRORES 422 and I will cancel my Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera order today. :)

 

[jcs]

Magic Lantern’s raw recording module for the 7D is a perfect illustration of why colour depth and dynamic range are more important than resolution.

 

 

Not too long ago resolution was the top topic around here  ;)

 

It's all important, once past a threshold of usability. Canon resolution was weak before RAW, now it's just good enough, and along with color depth and associated DR, gives new life to these cameras. RAW forces us to be more efficient with planning, shooting, and editing, as the workflow is demanding. This can be good or bad depending on what we are trying to shoot (good for a short film / movie, not good for R&G / ENG / Quick-turnaround).

[Andrew Reid]

While RAW is a neat trick, in reality who is going to shoot a whole movie in RAW?  Now give me PRORES 422 and I will cancel my Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera order today. :)

 

Um, just transcode to ProRes at the end of every day's shoot? Not hard!

[jnavickas]

I am anxiously waiting The ML Hack to enable 1920/24p RAW recording on my $299 (with 22mm f2 lens) Canon EOS-M! The biggest game changer of them all!

[Brian Williams]

I am anxiously waiting The ML Hack to enable 1920/24p RAW recording on my $299 (with 22mm f2 lens) Canon EOS-M! The biggest game changer of them all!

I don't know if that's gonna happen anytime soon, that sd card slot it has is pretty slow.

[Will Turner]

I don't know if that's gonna happen anytime soon, that sd card slot it has is pretty slow.

 

It supports UHS-1 and has a lot in common with the MKIII so there is good potential in that camera. More than you might think at first glance. 

[Bruno]

While RAW is a neat trick, in reality who is going to shoot a whole movie in RAW?

 

Most films you see in the theater these days were shot in raw...

[Andrew Reid]

It supports UHS-1 and has a lot in common with the MKIII so there is good potential in that camera. More than you might think at first glance. 

 

1920 x 1080 24p is 83MB/s to the card, the EOS-M's card controller cannot do that. So it flat out isn't possible.

 

It supports UHS-1 cards but that is not to say it can write at the maximum speed of the UHS-1 standard. Slow CPU is also a limiting factor.

[maxotics]

Yes Will, the camera gets hot enough writing 1280x720 to the card at 24 fps.   VIMEO default to 720p, so for online video, the EOS-M is a killer.  If you don't believe me look at this video by someone in NY I think, 

 

https://vimeo.com/72938179#comment_9829955

 

Here is a single frame from a test I shot on my hacked EOS-M today.  Is is a JPG from the TIFF.  It is not sharpened  or color corrected or anything.  This is 1 of 24 frames I shot in one second.  Incredible stuff!  

 

[Bruno]

Yes Will, the camera gets hot enough writing 1280x720 to the card at 24 fps.   VIMEO default to 720p, so for online video, the EOS-M is a killer.  If you don't believe me look at this video by someone in NY I think, 

 

https://vimeo.com/72938179#comment_9829955

 

Being limited to 720p is far from ideal, but the real deal breaker here is the nasty moire all over that video.

Maybe at 1080p it would be better, if the card was fast enough for it.

 

Maybe ML can find a way to optimize it further or even compress the raw files, it looks like anything is possible now, and the EOS-M shooting 1080p raw would indeed be an amazing feat, after all it's the same sensor as the 7D, but for now it's just not up to par.

[hmcindie]

Most films you see in the theater these days were shot in raw...

 

That's because they have huge amounts of data wranglers. How many low budget shooters have a pickup truck full of dudes converting stuff and keeping metadata updated? Even smaller budget films forgo RAW and just shoot prores.

[tehgeek]

Most TV shows shot on digital are prores as well. 

[Andrew Reid]

Haha how much footage and how many cameras do people intend to shoot with on an average shoot?

 

10 and a data wrangler!? 240 hours worth a day?!

 

Raw is not that hard for a one or two cam shoot if you're reasonably economical on takes like a good filmmaker is.

[Bruno]

Well, many great filmmakers are known for not being economical on takes :)

 

Anyway, you could get by even with just two cards and a Nexto hard drive backing everything up.

Working with raw does take up way more space, but dealing with it only requires discipline (and hard drives), not tens of data wranglers.

[hmcindie]

Haha how much footage and how many cameras do people intend to shoot with on an average shoot?

 

Ever shot for example, dialogue?

[Andrew Reid]

DIalogue was shot on 12 minute long film reels to this day, and it never troubled anyone. Raw is 12 minutes per 64GB 'reel', and you swap out the reel when it is full.

 

Then you have someone, maybe even you, drag the folder to a Macbook Air. That takes less than 30 seconds and you continue shooting on a 2nd card whilst it is copying. After another 12 minute reel needs changing repeat the process, format the copied card when required.

 

On most film productions that is an easier job than making the tea!

[Andrew Reid]

The way I am handling it is -

 

If I am operating the camera on my own, no crew, then I bring 6 cards. That allows me to work for a good while before I need to do anything at all.

 

I then take the opportunity to have a break. It's good to have a break.

 

During that break, I have a coffee, and the cards empty swiftly via USB 3.0 to an external USB 3.0 2.5" hard drive, via Macbook Air. The Air and HDD are so small and light I hardly notice them when carrying them around, together they weigh less than my tripod.

[mtheory]

I think alot of the complaints that people level at RAW comes from their experience shooting with RED cameras, which have terrible batteries and require lot of data wrangling.