Z Cam's Super 35mm 6K camera for under $3K: the "Z Cam S6"

[IronFilm]

Quote

Z CAM E2-S6 revised price USD2,995. This is going to be the most competitive S35 6K Cinema Camera, bar none.

4K @100fps (2.4:1 aspect ratio) will be supported. Electronic ND will come as an optional accessory.

Saw Kinson Loo‎ post that to Facebook. Wow. 

Claiming 14+ spots of DR

[Anaconda_]

That's sick, hopefully the ND will become a standard accessory in time.

These guys are putting out so many cameras, I'd be scared to buy one, because the 'upgrade' is only a month away.

On CVP, this camera is just over £3k, and the full frame version (f6) is only £100 more.

https://cvp.com/catalogue/category/cine+cameras/subcategory/z+cam+cine+cameras 

[zerocool22]

1 hour ago, Anaconda_ said:

That's sick, hopefully the ND will become a standard accessory in time.

These guys are putting out so many cameras, I'd be scared to buy one, because the 'upgrade' is only a month away.

On CVP, this camera is just over £3k, and the full frame version (f6) is only £100 more.

https://cvp.com/catalogue/category/cine+cameras/subcategory/z+cam+cine+cameras 

ex VAT though. Hopefully the F6 will drop in price too a bit. On the edge of buying one, but def want to see some decent tests/footage/comparisons as current footage that has been released isnt great at all. 

[kye]

Interesting stuff.  Seems like it might be the time of the 6K camera, which for many will be a nice compromise between the file sizes and cost of 8K but still gaining the ability to crop, stabilise, or downscale in post for a 4K delivery.

[zerocool22]

40 minutes ago, kye said:

Interesting stuff.  Seems like it might be the time of the 6K camera, which for many will be a nice compromise between the file sizes and cost of 8K but still gaining the ability to crop, stabilise, or downscale in post for a 4K delivery.

Im not hyped on the 6K let alone 8K, 1080p is even good enough for me. But its also the most affordable full frame RAW camera atm.   

[Mattias Burling]

I came very close to ordering the E2 this week. Was interested in the slowmotion.

But after some research there where a few things that was annoying, design wise. But the big deal breaker was the h265. God I would hate having to use that. If the slowmotion had been available in Prores I could have looked the other way on the, imo, weird connection placements.

[zerocool22]

29 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

I came very close to ordering the E2 this week. Was interested in the slowmotion.

But after some research there where a few things that was annoying, design wise. But the big deal breaker was the h265. God I would hate having to use that. If the slowmotion had been available in Prores I could have looked the other way on the, imo, weird connection placements.

Yeah I dont it either why anyone would implement h265 on a cinema camera. But prores licenses are on the way. So thats not a deal breaker. But I am worried about their raw though. If I have to convert it before I can use it in Resolve or Premiere, it is pretty useless. Also not sure what compression their raw will have. I love BRAW 12:1, but im pretty sure that one isnt going to happen.

[Anaconda_]

6 minutes ago, zerocool22 said:

Yeah I dont it either why anyone would implement h265 on a cinema camera. But prores licenses are on the way. So thats not a deal breaker.

I thought they already had ProRes, but not at the high speeds in 4k.

 

Table comes from http://www.z-cam.com/e2/ in the Max Variable Frame Rate section. the PDF is Appendix 1.

[Mattias Burling]

Yeah it's the 240 that kills it. That's it's one trick in front of the BMPCC4K in my mind. So not having it in a codec that suites my workflow makes other little "ifs and buts" more noticeable. The BMPCC4K becomes a safer bet.

But it has a lot of things going for it. Both LANC and a com port, that little top display would be very handy at times. I like the three mounting points on the side. And the price isn't to bad.

[Anaconda_]

4k75p in ProRes LT is also quite nice for 25p projects - that could be another point to the E2 for someone who can't decide between this and the BMPCC4K.

 

[Kisaha]

That is 4450€ for the 6K S35 and 4600€  forthe 6K FF one.

That is not bad at all, but one has to take a leap of faith, as the footage is scarce and not impressive, still needs a lot of rigging and the cameras - all of them - are not battle tested at all, so we do not really know what to expect from a 4500€ tool.

And what about raw? 

[KnightsFan]

I said at the beginning that the S6 was overpriced compared to the normal E2 and the F6. This makes much more sense, and makes it really appealing.

The available frame rates and resolutions that they have been posting on FB are confusing at best. I believe that every 6k option will also be available in 4k downsamples from a 6k readout, as well as some 4k crop options. I don't know that I would ever shoot in 6k, but I guess it's a case of "if the camera can handle it, why not have the feature."

[thebrothersthre3]

I love the form factor, electronic ND's are amazing too. 4k 100fps would be great. 

[Jimmy G]

7 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

Yeah it's the 240 that kills it.

>snip<

If, by "kills it", you mean it in a positive way, I'll agree with that sentiment as I would love to try shooting birds and wildlife at high frame rates. Fwiw, I wrestled with a decision between the GH5 and GH5S throughout the springtime and part of my balance and trade-off arguments I had with myself were "no-low-light w/ IBIS w/ 180fps" vs "low-light w/ no-IBIS w/240fps". In an odd-but-fortunate way the impending arrival of the S1 helped break that stand-off by changing one of my scale factors with "low-light w/ IBIS w/ 180fps" and so I went that route, instead. Although, should a later firmware inclusion of 240fps (or even 250/25, 300/30, ha!) arrive for the S-series cameras it be would be most welcomed from Panasonic...especially, of course, all frame rates with audio! (Hint, hint.)

I'm not a fan of the rig-it-yourself-box design of these Z-Cam (and similar style) cameras for my own usage (DSLR-style fella here), but if their arrival helps put market pressure to deliver such features on DSLR/MILC cameras, great news all around...I'm a big fan of win/win/win!

:)

[thebrothersthre3]

Fuji announced the XT3 will be getting 240fps this summer, which is a huge plus. 

180fps coming from a full frame sensor on the S1 is probably really nice though

[Mattias Burling]

7 minutes ago, Jimmy G said:

If, by "kills it", you mean it in a positive way, 

Unfortunately no. I meant that the 240p being only h265 is enough of a letdown for me to become very aware of it's other negatives compared to the BMPCC4K. 

[Jimmy G]

37 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

Unfortunately no. I meant that the 240p being only h265 is enough of a letdown for me to become very aware of it's other negatives compared to the BMPCC4K. 

If not "being only h.265", what would you have preferred? (i.e. RAW, H.264, ProRes, etc., etc.?)

[androidlad]

59 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Fuji announced the XT3 will be getting 240fps this summer, which is a huge plus. 

180fps coming from a full frame sensor on the S1 is probably really nice though

240fps is not the only thing that's coming ?

[kye]

1 hour ago, Jimmy G said:

If, by "kills it", you mean it in a positive way, I'll agree with that sentiment as I would love to try shooting birds and wildlife at high frame rates. Fwiw, I wrestled with a decision between the GH5 and GH5S throughout the springtime and part of my balance and trade-off arguments I had with myself were "no-low-light w/ IBIS w/ 180fps" vs "low-light w/ no-IBIS w/240fps". In an odd-but-fortunate way the impending arrival of the S1 helped break that stand-off by changing one of my scale factors with "low-light w/ IBIS w/ 180fps" and so I went that route, instead. Although, should a later firmware inclusion of 240fps (or even 250/25, 300/30, ha!) arrive for the S-series cameras it be would be most welcomed from Panasonic...especially, of course, all frame rates with audio! (Hint, hint.)

I'm not a fan of the rig-it-yourself-box design of these Z-Cam (and similar style) cameras for my own usage (DSLR-style fella here), but if their arrival helps put market pressure to deliver such features on DSLR/MILC cameras, great news all around...I'm a big fan of win/win/win!

If you consider the BMPCC4K a cinema camera (which you should) then you'll understand how a cinema camera can put pressure on DSLR/MILC cameras.   You only have to look at what impact the BMPCC4K had on people shooting with other cinema cameras (eg, lower-end REDs) to know that the more cinema cameras that come out challenging the specs-vs-price equation like the ZCam, Kinefinity, BM, etc the more pressure it puts on the big cinema names like RED and ARRI, but also those manufacturers who span the two worlds like Sony, Canon, etc.

It's all connected.  Sometimes loosely connected, but connected just the same.

[webrunner5]

Yeah Arri, Red is going to have to lower their price or go out of business. China is pushing at them hard. And they have just started. The PK4 proves BMD, Z Cam E2, Kinefinity 4K is Giving them away or the other company's, even Canon's C line are screwing the Pooch pretty big time. It just doesn't cost 50 thousand Dollars or more to make this stuff anymore.